New Player, Requesting Help

I've been playing for around a week, and i've had very few issues up until now. I'm using a Black Mage, and as soon as I went to do Stone Vigil in the story, I hit a wall. I've not done many dungeons, only the ones it forces you to do, and I died fairly quickly in there. Naturally I got the usual comments in the chat, I want to know what to expect and how I should approach it before I try again.

Level 50 Black Mage, completed all job quests available to me.

Did you not complete it? Need more information. If you were pulling mobs off the tank then you needed to either A use lucid dreaming or B slow down your casting. Try to make sure your gear is as up to date as it can be and isn't broken or near it. I haven't touched black mage since 4.0 but I'm fairly sure you still want to use Fire 1 unless Fire 3 procs with Fire 2 on packs. Switching to blizzard to replenish your mp. Everything in Stone Vigil is sleep-able except the black dragon monsters. Not that most groups seem to care to use that as a last resort to try and prevent a wipe on trash pulls. Also don't forget to use your thunder spells. If the tank wasn't doing their job then that's on them.

Yeah, to help you need to know what happened to cause your death. :) General newbie help questions for dungeons are: is your gear up to date for the dungeon level and are you following the tank and only attacking things they have pulled? Are you using your AoE rotation (basically Fire II on that level) instead of single targeting monsters (when at least 3 monsters alive), and are you using Diversion / Lucid Dreaming to lower your enmity if needed? If so, there isn't much you can be doing wrong.

Maybe you accidentally ran ahead and pulled extra monsters for the party, or ran into the traps in the dungeon with low HP, or got hit by some boss mechanics you aren't sure how to evade? Let us know more and we can hopefully help you.

Yeah, without a bit more info its hard to specifically answer your querry. So here generic advice, and hopefully some of it is useful. Most important rule: Dont run ahead of the tank and only attack the mobs that theyve already angered. Stay close to the group so the healer can reach you if needed. AoE on groups, single target otherwise. Dont be afraid to tell people youre new to a dungeon or ask for help understanding a mechanic you dont get. If youre playing on PS4, investing in a cheap keyboard can do wonders for your ability to communicate. The higher level you get, the more important it becomes to avoid enemy AoEs when you can.

Now some generics that are specific to BLM(the above applies to everyone). The break-even point for your AoE rotation is basically 3 enemies. With that many or more you get more damage from Fire 2 and Thunder 2 then you do from the alternatives. Have you learned your stances? Astral Fire is your damage stance, Umbral Ice is for recovery. Ideally you get a fully boosted AF(3 stacks) with an F3 cast, repeatedly cast F1/2 for your damage until you run low on mana, then use B3 to switch to UI(gives you all 3 stacks) to regen your mana(apply/reapply your thunder DoT while regening), before using F3 to get back to burning. If you mess up the rotation and dont have enough for a B3, you can still use Transpose to switch and start the regen going. Also, look at your role skills. You always want to have some set to make your job easier. As a BLM i always have swiftcast set, and i almost always have diversion and lucid dreaming set for aggro management. Personally i round out my load out with mana shift and apoc most of the time, but surecast addle and erase can be useful(or amazing) in the right situation too(break theoretically too for the long-ish duration heavy, though i dont think that situation is currently in the game - at higher levels drain is too weak to be all that useful). And dont forget you can hit manaward to negate or blunt some incoming attacks when needed.

And if you were looking for specific boss advice for that dungeon, heres a couple hints. Basically, youre re-taking a fallen keep from the dragons that moved in. So dont stand in front of them to avoid breath attacks. During the second boss in particular, a dragon shows up outside the window to cause trouble. Use the cannons in the room to scare it off so you can fight in peace. And just generally, avoid aoes and ground puddles left behind.

Editors note: I went to check your gear to make sure it wasnt part of the problem, but it looks like you logged out on weaver most recently so my character search proved not that helpful.

Depends on where you were dying: bosses or trash.

If bosses, the first one has some incredibly strong attacks that will squish you if you don't understand the mechanics. When he runs off to a wall and faces the arena, you're meant to stand behind him to avoid a heavy breath attack. You're also meant to not stand directly in front of him, to avoid a strong frontal swipe.
The second boss has damage over time whirlwinds you should hopefully understand not to stay in, as well as an untargetable add that inflicts unavoidable damage until someone (hopefully the healer) shoots it down with the cannons.
The final boss is obviously just about avoiding clear AoE zones.

If you were dying to the trash, one thing to note is the aevis enemies can be dangerous, especially in groups. There's a few areas where pulls can get out of control.

Being level 50 with your job quests done, you should at least have your i90 job gear, so gear shouldn't be a huge problem. It's also worth knowing, if you haven't already, that SV is right around the point where BLM's rotation changes significantly. You're no longer bound to Transposing between astral and umbral. B3 and F3 become your transition spells, allowing you to spend less time in umbral recharging MP, and more time in astral, burning things down.

Thank you to all who responded. My issues were, embarrassingly, at the very start, with the trash mobs. I was rushing mobs like I was in previous duty finders, because it had never not been effective before this. I realised that I was just being a moron, combined with a non-too-helpful team I got teamed up with, it was doomed to fail. Anyway, yesterday I queued it up again, having spent some time learning my new rotation minus Transpose (I still use it when everything is dead to get to full Mana between fights, but otherwise I don't need it now), and a little bit of reading up on that specific area, the new team (who might I add were awesome, a Healer who knows how to heal! A tank who tanks!)We got through with no issues. I'd read up on the bosses so I knew what to expect for each one, and it was fairly simple. Shortly after I did the Garuda fight, and got commendations, so I must be learning my role, slowly. I'm now level 54, and my next learning curve I expect is at 56 with Enochian?

Adding this because I have a 1000 character limit. in SV my problems stemmed from me not reacting to what was around me. Once I knew that the trash in there is a bit more dangerous than what i've seen up to then, I changed up to using Fire II a lot more, to nuke mobs rather than single enemies. It worked well, I felt like I was useful. I have a big issue with feeling like i'm not doing much but this run was different, I genuinely felt I was doing the work.

Eno on its own is just a passive damage buff. When its active you get 5% more damage. You need to be in either the AF or UI stance to activate it, and it drops if you no longer have one or the other going. Thats it. Not a huge difference. It will become a key piece of your level 60 and 70 rotation(it has to be active to cast B4/F4 or to charge Foul), but on its own its just a bit more damage. And i understand what you mean about feeling powerful doing the AoE rotation. BLM is one of the best classes in that regard(also one of the best in terms of single target damage - weakness is we dont synergize well by providing buffs for the rest of the team like some classes do). The next steps on the learning curve should be the more advanced AoE rotation(one that uses flare effectively with good uptime), and the level 60+ single target rotation(adding the 4 tier spells in). Any questions of course, and im sure someone here is happy to help.

Forum note: You can edit your posts to go over the character limit. We all do. Just type out the whole thing, copy, cut it down to something that fits, then edit and paste in what you removed. This post was 1207 chars long, and i made it fit with a quick edit.

Thank you for the tip, and the advice. I had a question, if you don't mind. I've never bothered with Thunder spells, since I got the first one early on and it was fairly bad compared to Fire and Blizzard. My question is, should I be using it now at level 55? I read a lot of things saying to use it for DoTs, should I start incorporating it into my rotation now?

Disclaimer: I haven't played BLM since Heavensward and level 60.

When you consider if a DoT is worth using, you need to take its total potency into consideration. Thunder has initial potency of 30, but it also hits the target with a 40 potency hit on every tick for its whole duration. All DoTs in the game hit once every 3 seconds. As Thunder lasts 18 seconds (6 ticks) and it has 40 potency per tick, its DoT potency is 240 (40x6) + the initial hit of 30 potency. So the total potency of Thunder is 270. Fire has potency of 180, so if Thunder is given enough time to tick, it will beat Fire in DPS (although Fire potency is increased under Astral Fire, I don't know by how much). Furthermore, Thunder damage increases with Thundercloud trait procs.

I'm pretty sure Thunder is always useful to use on a single target, at least, but I have no experience of current AoE Thunders. Hopefully someone who plays BLM in its current form can give you some practical advice on its use. :)

Yes. Whenever possible you want one of your thunder spells on the target enemy. As Taika explains, the overall damage of the DoT is much higher then the initial hit would indicate. And at your level you have a trait called Thundercloud. Every 3 seconds when the DoT ticks you have a chance for the trait to proc. When it does, you get a free enhanced cast of either thunder spell. The thundercloud enhancement is instant cast, no mana cost, and it does the full damage of the DoT on the initial hit PLUS applying the normal DoT effect to the enemy. A thunder 3 cast via proc does close to or more damage then a fire 4(it depends on how long the DoT was on before you activated the free cast). When fighting one or two enemies you can individually DoT both of them with T1/3(the single target one you have), when fighting larger groups putting the AoE thunder(2/4) down in the middle of the pack is a fine way to spread the damage. You get the best potency-per-cast return by casting/reapplying your thunder DoT during your ice phase, but remembering to keep it going is almost always a good thing. Quick note: the AoE versions proc the thundercloud trait a lower percentage of the time then the single target ones do, but once you have a free cast you can use it on either version. Hope this helps.

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Originally Posted by Taika

So the total potency of Thunder is 270. Fire has potency of 180, so if Thunder is given enough time to tick, it will beat Fire in DPS (although Fire potency is increased under Astral Fire, I don't know by how much). Furthermore, Thunder damage increases with Thundercloud trait procs.

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We're primarily concerned with the potency changes that come from with Astral Fire III, which is a 1.8x multiplier, so let's call Fire
a 324 potency spell. Fire IV is 504. Thunder III slowcast is 70+240 = 310, but has a 47%* chance to give you an instant cast 70+240+240 = 550; further, you can force the proc with Sharpcast. I don't have the Thunder II/IV maths off the top of my head but the idea is the same, just with a smaller chance but on more targets.



* 10% chance to proc on first tick
plus 90% chance it didn't proc on first tick × 10% chance to proc on second tick
plus 90% chance it didn't proc on first tick × 90% chance it didn't proc on second tick × 10% chance to proc on third tick
plus ... etc

I'm back again now, many thanks for all the help up to this point. I'm now level 60 (one quest from 61), i've been doing a lot of DoH/DoL which is why it's taken me so long, all of those will be over 50 once i've finished tomorrow's daily quests! Anyway, I just wanted to ask one thing. I know Fire IV is a random thing, I just wanted to ask, what triggers it? A specific Fire spell, or any? I know it has to be while under Astral Fire 3, and i'm fairly sure i've seen it because random spells have hit for much more than normal, but I can't say for sure what I did at that time to be certain. I've been using a rotation of Swiftcast, Blizzard III, Thunder III, Fire III, then Fire unless either Firestarter or Thundercloud procs, then switching to Blizzard again for Mana etc. Fire II for when it's relevant. Hoping this sounds sensible, i've got quite used to it now.

Fire IV is enabled by Enochian. Enochian, once activated, will last as long as you don't let Astral Fire / Umbral Ice fall off. It doesn't matter what tier of element buff you keep up for this purpose -- Transpose is enough to keep Enochian active forever.

At Lv60, the basic basic rotation without extra cooldowns looks something like this:

Blizzard III (enters Umbral Ice)
Enochian
Thunder III
Blizzard IV (grants three Umbral Hearts*)
Fire III (switches to Astral Fire)
Fire IV (2 hearts remain)
Fire IV (1 heart remains)
Fire IV (0 hearts)
Fire (refreshes Astral Fire)
Fire IV
Fire IV
Fire IV
Repeat from Blizzard III, skip Enochian because it will still be up as long as you haven't let your Fire/Ice buff fall off.




* Umbral Hearts: normally, Fire spells cost double when you are in Astral Fire. Umbral Hearts waive the doubling. The Fire III after Blizzard IV doesn't cost any extra because you're not in Astral Fire yet. The first three fire spells after that will cost the base cost. The fourth fire spell through the last will cost double.

It's useful to note that Fire and Fire IV cost the same, so if your spell speed isn't high enough for IV-IV-IV-I, you can do IV-IV-I-IV and it won't cost any extra for shuffling the 1s and 4s around. But you want to aim for higher spell speed so you can do IV-IV-IV- I -IV-IV-IV - BlizzardIII.

What he said. Back on 3/11 when i said...

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Originally Posted by Frizze

The next steps on the learning curve should be the more advanced AoE rotation(one that uses flare effectively with good uptime), and the level 60+ single target rotation(adding the 4 tier spells in).

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...this is the exact 60+ single target rotation i was thinking of. Its more complex then the level 50 rotation, and it adds a good amount more damage overall. Its still the core of the single target rotation that you use at level 70, so you want to get it down.

Ok, thanks to both. What's the recommended Spell Speed at level 60? Currently I have 585.

That is a question id have a hard time answering. They re-balanced the sub-stats when they launched SB, so the numbers i used to have no longer produce the same results they used to. For a BLM, you cant go wrong with more. In general, we prioritize speed>>>crit>dh>>>>>det.

Personal opinion, but, presumably, if you're not pushing raids or actual difficult content, you probably don't need to be very concerned about hitting particular thresholds.

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Originally Posted by Hasrat

Personal opinion, but, presumably, if you're not pushing raids or actual difficult content, you probably don't need to be very concerned about hitting particular thresholds.

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On the other hand, the more spell speed you have, the more freedom you have to improvise (dodge / shuffle spells) when you don't 100% know a particular boss's rotation yet, regardless of the level of content.

I've started rotating with Enochian and B4 and F4, there was 62 HQ gear selling on the market for next to nothing so I updated everything apart from necklace (those were quite expensive and the difference was negligable) - so she's now got all 62 gear and is up to 630ish Spell Speed. Before today I never really noticed it being quicker with upgrades, but today I can really feel the difference. It feels less sluggish, and also considering i'm DPS, i'd consider Spell Speed to be of paramount importance to providing DPS. It's a bit like people not understanding in games like Borderlands that reload speed is also DPS related, if you understand what I mean. I just didn't know what was best. I haven't melded materia into the new gear yet, but I will do tomorrow.

Re: Thunder spells.

These spells on their own look lackluster, but two aspects make them very useful for increasing your dps.

First, while the overall potency when hardcast (cast without the proc) is less than a fire spell in astral fire, it does give a chance to give a proc effect that greatly enhances its damage. When casting the procced version, instead of the low initial damage you normally get you get an amount equal to the amount the spell would do over time. E.g. For Thunder 1, instead of being a 270 potency spell (30 up front + 240 over time) it becomes a 480 potency spell (240 up front + 240 over time) as long as you don't cast it befote the previous one wears off. To compare, Fire 1 is 333 potency when cast in astral fire 3 (180 + 85%) so Thunder can be more effective if cast properly. Because of the increased chance for procs with multiple enemies, thr AoE Thunder 2 can be extremely powerful when used in multiple mobs since you can all but guarantee it will proc every time.

Second, it should always be cast during your ice phase, since you will need one filler spell to get to full mp before switching back to fire and Thunder is the most effective use of this filler gcd. Its potential damage ouput will always be higher than any additional ice spell you could cast as a filler.

This changes slightly with the 70 rotation, since Fire IV is so powerful and the rotation is super tight, but you'll lways want to use it once during the ice phase regardless.

Update time. I'm now level 70. Now i've got all skills (did the last BLM quest for Foul), what is the rotation I should be using?

The most important concepts are always maintain Enochian by maintaining your Astral and Umbral stances while remaining in Astral stance as much as possible and Umbral as little as possible. The very basic single target rotation without cooldowns once past the opener is:

Fire3 - Fire 4 - Fire 4 - Fire 4 - Fire 1 - Fire 4 - Fire 4 - Fire 4 - Blizzard 3 - Foul - Thunder 3 - Blizzard 4 and repeat.

Fire 4 is your bread and butter dps. Fire 3 and Blizzard 3 are your stance switching spells. Fire 1 lets you stay in Astral Fire stance longer. Foul and Thunder 3 are umbral stance fillers that allow you to maintain your dps in ice phase. And Blizzard IV lets you squeeze in an extra Fire 4 in your fire spam. One important note is that this rotation is highly modifiable depending on situation. Some examples: if your Enochian is about to drop it is better to cut short your fire spam to refresh it. Thunder 3 can swap with Foul if you have enough mp for it immediately after blizzard 3. If you get a fire 3 or Thunder 3 proc they will also adjust where you cast them. Some people also advocate not using Blizzard 4, since it's not that effective at what it does in the rotation. Convert can let you get some more Fire 4 out in your astral stance, and is especially useful when paired with Sharpcast to force a proc of Fire 3 which extends your astral fire buff. Etc.

The very basic AoE rotation once past the opener is:

Fire 3 - Flare - Flare - Transpose - Foul - Thunder 4 - Blizzard 4, repeat.

Blizzard 4 is more necessary here, since it's what allows you to double flare. Using convert is great to squeeze in extra flares. There's a bit of variability here too, since you can add a couple Fire 2 in before your Flares if you want a less volatile rotation that has more chance for Foul to be procced and not having to wait for mp to tick after Transpose, and Foul and Thunder 4 can swap places depending on which proc is currently available. Etc.

Openers are not my forte, you'll have to ask others for that.

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Originally Posted by Mhaeric

Openers are not my forte, you'll have to ask others for that.

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All of the above sounds dead on. Ill take a stab at openers. Your opener should be a little flexible, as some fights will have different phases and demands. The more that you know about the fight youre about to start, the more specific your opener can be.

Boss fight, slow build, starting from scratch(no carryover buffs, all abilities available)
Diversion - Thunder 3 - Swift - Blizzard 3 - Enochian - Ley Lines - Blizzard 4 - Fire 3 - Triple - Fire 4x3 - Sharp - Fire 1 - F4x3 - Fire 3 proc - Convert - F4 - B3

Boss fight, fast build, starting from scratch
Swift - T3 - Diversion - Sharp - F1 - Eno - F3 proc - Ley - Triple - F4x3 etc

The first is general and works most of the time. You get your full burn going in 4 GCDs with all relevant buffs up(and hate down). The second would be an example of a variation for a boss fight where its going to go invincible and you need to front-load more, as youre going full speed in only 2 GCDs(that may not seem like much of a difference, but 2 more F4s before you lose target can help sometimes).

You can use a simpler opener on most AoE pulls. Something like T4(possibly cast while the tank is gathering mobs to get extra ticks/fish for thundercloud procs) B3 B4 F3 go. Keep in mind that in dungeons you can keep Eno up between pulls by using transpose every 10 or so seconds, so your 2nd(and later) fights will often have Foul available earlier in your rotation. As long as you dont think youll draw aggro(or are ready to dump via lucid) feel free to use any carry-over Fouls early in the rotation so you can continue earning them. This is where knowing your fight and knowing your abilities lets you be a little flexible to get the best results. Good luck!

Edit for below: Yes, thats exactly what i meant. I wasnt in game and got the name a little wrong. Fixed now.

You mention Evasion, do you mean Diversion?

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Originally Posted by Kuolemanlaakso

You mention Evasion, do you mean Diversion?

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Yes, they mean Diversion.

Hola mucho gusto mi nombre es Ian Guido estoy en hyperion