Haurchefant Memorial at a recent 30th anniversary event

http://i68.tinypic.com/b7xni8.jpg

;-;

I miss Hauchey-kun so much. Having multiple copies of his painting in my house AND apartment helps but... ; ; ....sorry I need to cry in the corner. Carry on.

Where can I buy one? ; ;

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Originally Posted by Nandalowell

Where can I buy one? ; ;

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Tomestone exchange at Rowena's shop in Idyllshire.

I assume it's the same one that's now hanging in his 'office' at Camp Dragonhead, which I don't think looks that good. But then all the character portraits creep me out a bit for some reason.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Tomestone exchange at Rowena's shop in Idyllshire.

I assume it's the same one that's now hanging in his 'office' at Camp Dragonhead, which I don't think looks that good. But then all the character portraits creep me out a bit for some reason.

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You would hate the basement bedroom in my house. I've got portraits of many of the characters lining the walls, including Haurchefant. Minfilia is right above my bed.

Only one I really need is The Admiral, but its never on the MB for a reasonable price.

I don't see what was so great about him.

He jumped in front of a beam that the warrior of light probably could of deflected himself and died.
I don't call that being a heroic I call that throwing his life away for absolutely nothing.

Can we PLEASE stop putting major spoilers in the title of posts in the general forum? This isn't okay guys and it's the second time this month.

The title is a big huge spoiler for everyone that did not do the MSQ to that point so maybe it would be better to have other titles for future threads?

On the topic itself. Its kinda interesting that Haurchefant is one of the few NPC characters that can still get a "too soon" message from players. There are a lot of deaths in this story and yet its often him. I am honestly also still sad and probably will never truly get over that death, because it was obviously just done to evoke certain feelings from the player base and its also done in a scene where the WoL could have easily avoided the attack..so I can get over a lof death but not this one and seeing him being milked that much by SE makes it even worse since I truly get the feeling that they only did that to sell his death..

So I am quite sad but angry at the same time..not a good combination..x)

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Originally Posted by Zeonx

I don't see what was so great about him.

He jumped in front of a beam that the warrior of light probably could of deflected himself and died.
I don't call that being a heroic I call that throwing his life away for absolutely nothing.

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I love his character because he was a friend to us. He cared about the WoL as a person and not as a savior or weapon. He did not throw away his life for a cause (which a lot of the characters did) but to save us as a person. (And no I also already liked him before HW) But I agree that he threw away his life for nothing. We should have easily seen the attack and Haurchefant had enough time to warn us about it and run towards us..while we stood there and did nothing. This was not something that would follow us so simply running on or just jumping out of the way would have saved us..and this is why I cant accept his death. Ysayle hurt too because next to Haurchefant she was one of the few characters that I liked. But at least in the situation we were, we could not have done much. (Yes we could have teleported but that would have left our friends in danger) So her coming in to save us was fine. She did some horrible things in the game and this was kinda her redemption too. So she truly saved us from a situation that we could not change much and on top of that she also changed the story. The biggest flying threat was stalled on Azys Lla (and still is) so that is one less big dangerous thing that Eorzea has to face. Haurchefants death did nothing to the whole story. His brothers might have been changed a bit but the overall story did not change much.

(But enough of my ramblings)

Spoilers in titles, bad.

That said, forking finally a version with readable text! It says "Haurchefant Greystone. Until then, my friend".

I agree on the spoilers in the title being a bad move. Unfortuntately (as we covered in the topic the other week) there isn't any way we can change it now.

I really hate getting spoiled for things, but prior to playing Heavensward I had three different people in my FC spoil that he was going to die at some point - though thankfully not the details, and ultimately I didn't see it coming there.

It's frustrating that I (and others) got spoiled for it, but at the same time I can see why people want to talk about it afterwards. Which is not to say that spoilers are okay, but that the more people want to discuss it, the higher chance that someone will forget they need to be careful about not putting spoilers where newer players might come across them.

But enough about spoiler etiquette, I want to talk about the story...


(SPOILER WARNING for some post-Heavensward pre-Stormblood events later in this post)


I do think that they might not have built up our character's relationship with him as well as they could have beforehand. Perhaps if it wasn't for the fragmented nature of MSQ and sidequests they could have included him in some more side stories. (He definitely should have shown up in the Lv50 machinist quest - a tournament between the high houses, at Camp Dragonhead! And generally sidequests seem 'intended' to take place at an equal point to the MSQ of the same level, so it theoretically was supposed to be happening when he was still alive - but I didn't do that story until after he died, so it was a sad thought that he 'could' have been there.)

As it is, I think it's only really made clear after his death that we were quite close to him.

From a game-versus-story viewpoint, I also have to figure that 'in reality' our character would have probably been living at Fortemps Manor for a few months at this point (while studying machinistry or astromancy or whatever), minus the trip to Dravania, and may have had a fair bit of mundane interaction with him that doesn't figure into our gameplay. But that's just theoretical-bordering-on-fanfic, I guess. I like to think it happened.

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Originally Posted by Alleo

But I agree that he threw away his life for nothing. We should have easily seen the attack and Haurchefant had enough time to warn us about it and run towards us..while we stood there and did nothing. This was not something that would follow us so simply running on or just jumping out of the way would have saved us..and this is why I cant accept his death.
...
Haurchefants death did nothing to the whole story. His brothers might have been changed a bit but the overall story did not change much.

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I don't think it was for nothing. He saw someone was in danger, and he acted instinctively to save them. That's his nature. (There are multiple times in the story up to that point where he comes to your aid unexpectedly in the middle of a fight.)

Whether my character "could" have done something, maybe she wouldn't have. Maybe she would have failed to act in that moment of indecision, and she would have died if he hadn't stepped in to shield her.


And as for the wider effect on the plot- maybe it doesn't change events all that much, but it casts a shadow over everything that follows. Although a lot of characters die over the course of the story, this is one of the few we really, properly see mourned by the others, without having to rush off to the next plot point, and it leads to some beautiful story-moments of remembrance.

Speaking with people around Camp Dragonhead afterwards. The solemn responsibility of being gifted the broken shield as we leave for Azys Lla. Laying it at the grave, and the thought of him watching over the city. Returning there in-game and meeting with Francel. That last fleeting vision of him and Ysayle after defeating Nidhogg, and their part in saving Estinien - perhaps if anything, that could be seen as giving a 'purpose' to his death, if you don't believe he needed to be saving us when he died.

It's sad that he died, but at the same time I can see from a storytelling point of view, it works. His whole purpose in the narrative was to be a character that we cared about and couldn't save, and to be remembered afterwards. I know it's something that's driving my character still.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

His whole purpose in the narrative was to be a character that we cared about and couldn't save, and to be remembered afterwards.

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And I cringe at it every time because I never particularly cared about him. It's one of those points where I very clearly go:"Nope, the WoL is not 'my' character at all." and just pretend it's Derplander that should be standing in that cutscene. He's the real WoL, I'm just an actress re-enacting his deeds in a play or something. It's really the only way I can justify my character standing in those cutscenes at this point.

I can understand not caring about him as much as the story intended - I'm not even sure I would have paid as much attention to him if I hadn't been spoiled about his death, but because I knew it was coming I also realised we were 'supposed' to care about him. (At the point I'd gotten spoiled, I'd only met him in the Coerthas story arc of ARR, and he hadn't been particularly outstanding as a character at the time.) It's hard to know if I would have gotten attached to him anyway throughout the story of Heavensward - I think I would have - he did a lot to help us, being there for us after we fled Ul'dah and bringing us to safety in Ishgard, coming to our rescue in battle.... but every interaction with him, for me, was overshadowed by the thought "I know you are going to die". I wish I could know how my thoughts towards him would have gone without that knowledge.

Ultimately though, even if I didn't (or wouldn't have come to) naturally care for him, my character does and therefore I should too, so to a degree I "made" him an important character to me. And I did, genuinely, cry at his death.


(I'll be interested to play through the Coerthas storyline again, once I get there on my alt character, knowing that Haurchefant is a long-term important character and not just "the guy in charge of the town we're currently adventuring in", important to the local storyline but not particularly beyond it.)

I used to love Haurchefant and loved that we got a minion of him that I hugged all he time... but his death felt rubbed in our faces over and over and OVER again. Short stories, that HW journey, the Fortems shield,the undelivered letter, ok we get it, we must feel sad about him forever. I hate to say it but I reached a point where I don't want to hear about him anymore. All this is great but, its enough. I feel like it's being milked now.I suppose I still love the character but I'm really fed up with his death.

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Originally Posted by MuseTraveller

Short stories, that HW journey, the Fortems shield,the undelivered letter...

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Haven't come across the letter; is that one of the Moogle postman quests? I need to do those.

I loved getting the shield though. So far as I can be proud of something my character received in a story, I'm proud of it, and will most likely be using it as my paladin shield for the rest of the game. Again, it's something special to my character, and it's an honour for her to bear it.

And I liked the 'journey of reminiscence' quest overall, and there were some really beautiful quotes in there (Vidofnir's section particularly) but - given that it was clear from the start that it was going to end at Haurchefant's grave - the actual scene there was rather abrupt and anticlimactic. (Getting the emote was handled badly, I think.)

Idk he is just as rememberable as the other characters that were introduced and then quickly killed. I dont see his death really that sad.

I think some of you don't get is that it wasn't a "he was briefly introduced and then killed" scenario. I, and I have friends that started around the same time I did (2.0/2.1) who share the same feeling, didn't feel like Haurchefant was a wonderful character, but he definitely was our favorite.

At the same time we all progressed, rather slowly through MSQ, as it was kinda the only thing to do back then, we were talking about every NPC in a much more detailed way. And I remember Haurchefant was a character we all liked very much. He had his way of talking, his way of being just a dumbass that we all loved... I don't know, there's not only his perpetual attempt to flirt with the WoL, neither his "heroism". He was a full character, with his flaws, his qualities, and everything in between. He made us laugh, and that was all we would care about, back then. When he died, the WoL lost a friend that cared for him/her, while, with Papalymo and others, it was more of a "friend that cared for his/her cause", as someone stated, some messages ago.

Then again, it was a whole other mentality back then. Maybe it's just me being a nostalgic b**ch, but I feel like characters from the 2.X storyline were much better than later on characters. Probably because we cared more about them since MSQ was the main content, but I remember dearly Moenbryda, even though she dies an hour after being introduced.

On the other hand, Aymeric, that seems deeply loved by a lot of people... I couldn't care less about him. He lacks realism, he lacks sincerity. He's just a walking cliché, and I feel like many people are like that... Especially during HW, which I will always consider as the worst expansion this game had, especially when it comes to storytelling, but that's my opinion. On the other hand, I do like some of the SB characters. Some may have the same effect on me Haurchefant had, when they die, because they're human.

Okay, I may be out of this discussion now if you’re talking about other characters later in the story, because I stopped reading when I saw the name in that last paragraph (being vague in case you edit it to hide spoilers) but I assume that means he’s going to die and I’m not up to that part yet.

I didn't spoil anything, was just saying "IF those people die, I'll be as sad as when Haurchefant died", but yeah, edited anyway, sorry for being inconsiderate.

The title of this thread totally spoiled this for me. I'm not even in HW yet. Still getting through all the level 50 MSQ quests.

This is actually the second death that's been spoiled for me. The first was Moenbryda when I was checking on my MSQ progress and saw a quest in the chain titled: "In Memory of Moenbryda". I was like, "Dang it!" This just goes to show you, if you want to remain spoiler free, stay off the internet. :D

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Originally Posted by Zojha

and just pretend it's Derplander that should be standing in that cutscene. He's the real WoL, I'm just an actress re-enacting his deeds in a play or something. It's really the only way I can justify my character standing in those cutscenes at this point.

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Don't get your point here. The midlander on cinematics is hot and feets well on the warrior of light. And if they put our chars on cinematic they will probably not put you or me. If a char be on cinematic one day will be probably inspired on the world first clears raiders from pve or on the rank 1 on the pvp (feast). They deserve to be on official cinematic not our chars. So I'm happy with the hyur guy, he is hot and looks badass. Is still better and more original than the Brad Pitt from wow cinematic.

https://i.redditmedia.com/XlFE5Fnd1L...fGY.png?w=768&

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Originally Posted by Alleo

I love his character because he was a friend to us. He cared about the WoL as a person and not as a savior or weapon. He did not throw away his life for a cause (which a lot of the characters did) but to save us as a person. (And no I also already liked him before HW) But I agree that he threw away his life for nothing. We should have easily seen the attack and Haurchefant had enough time to warn us about it and run towards us..while we stood there and did nothing. This was not something that would follow us so simply running on or just jumping out of the way would have saved us..and this is why I cant accept his death.

(But enough of my ramblings)

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This. Very much this. I was a Scholar at the time of his death. And yet my character, fully trained in the way of the Scholar and healing by that point, just sat there, dumbfounded. I have saved countless idiots in dungeons who could have been one shot, and yet the man I cared about so much was there taking the brunt of something I could have easily adlo'd. And, I could have helped heal him regardless. When I replayed this as on another character, I was a miqo'te bard. You'd think I would have heard them up there and been able to shoot them faster than anything but no. Stand there like a derp.

I love this game and it's story, but the fact that it doesn't take into account what class you are, and that you actually have some reflexes and wouldn't just stand there extending your hand for 3 full minutes while some shit goes down makes me absolutely livid.

I can't think of a single big plot cutscene where the WoL didn't prove to be completely useless. It would have been more realistic to show the WoL with the AFK symbol over his head, rather than tearing up and melodramatically punching a pillar while shit goes down. Not to mention all of the false choices where we ended up having to play nice, regardless of which choice we picked. They might as well put Minfilia in the cutscene instead of the WoL. She was always better looking anyway.

I think my character looks 10x better than Derplander, but I still view him as an antihero. and a tool. I can keep moving, Fordola, because I simply don't care anymore.

Also, if Aymeric disappears, you will find him in a shallow unmarked grave or at the bottom of a lake, if I even bother to try to hide the corpse. That guy is a creep.

Made me recall something a friend said (paraphrased).
"I watched my best friend die while taking a spear meant for me while I stood there with an Anima shield."

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Originally Posted by Zeonx

I don't see what was so great about him.

He jumped in front of a beam that the warrior of light probably could of deflected himself and died.
I don't call that being a heroic I call that throwing his life away for absolutely nothing.

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Well for starters, he was one of the few Ishgardians who accepted the player characters as welcomed guests after the Garlean attack on the Waking Sands and capture of several Scions. People liked him for his caring attitude and readiness to fight for what he believes in.

I'm pretty sure Hauchefant has his reasons for going down the way he did at the Vault. But I wonder if you'll be feeling the same way when only one party member gets hit by said attack from Ser Zephirin in Thordan EX if you are farming for the bird.

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Originally Posted by MuseTraveller

I used to love Haurchefant and loved that we got a minion of him that I hugged all he time... but his death felt rubbed in our faces over and over and OVER again.

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Exactly. And seeing how it was Yoshida who said that he wants him gone in HW...they kinda just used the quest to make people like him so that it hit harder when he dies. IMO a death of a NPC has to be meaningful otherwise it just feels cheap for me. And seeing how we are somehow able to survive the dungeon before that and that we should have had enough time to dodge that attack, it really feels like this was all done for some drama and sadness and not to truly bring the plot forward. And seeing how they really milked his death afterwards (they are selling jewelry with his shield in japan) I cant shake the feeling off that they did that on purpose..no other death in this game is milked so much.

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Originally Posted by RokkuEkkusu

Well for starters, he was one of the few Ishgardians who accepted the player characters as welcomed guests after the Garlean attack on the Waking Sands and capture of several Scions. People liked him for his caring attitude and readiness to fight for what he believes in.

I'm pretty sure Hauchefant has his reasons for going down the way he did at the Vault. But I wonder if you'll be feeling the same way when only one party member gets hit by said attack from Ser Zephirin in Thordan EX if you are farming for the bird.

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The problem is that the ex versions are always the fights how the bard sees them thus much harder than the original one. The lore book states that the WoL outright soloed Thordan and his knights in the final battle against them. So we are not able to dodge something which another pointed out to us but we are able to face Thordan and his 12 knights all alone.

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Originally Posted by Lium

The first was Moenbryda when I was checking on my MSQ progress and saw a quest in the chain titled: "In Memory of Moenbryda". I was like, "Dang it!" This just goes to show you, if you want to remain spoiler free, stay off the internet. :D

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I think I ended up doing that, too. I just kinda played it off in my mind as "Well, maybe it's something to do with a going away party." But nah. Oh well. She was too badass to last for long.

On topic: Maybe it's because my MSQ progress gets spread waaayyy out as I take many breaks to keep all my jobs sorta leveled the same, but every time Haurchefant came up, I struggled to remember why he was a relevant NPC in the first place. As someone previously pointed out, I probably also fell into the idea of "just another settlement leader" and gave him little mind. I kinda basically expect every NPC to treat me as a glorified errand boy already, so none of them really catch my attention.

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Originally Posted by Zeonx

I don't see what was so great about him.

He jumped in front of a beam that the warrior of light probably could of deflected himself and died.
I don't call that being a heroic I call that throwing his life away for absolutely nothing.

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Agreed. He’s already forgotten. Don’t live in the past people.

Personally I hope that the story moves in a GOT mode and kills off all we are attached to - just for a more interesting story. Amnesia is NOT good storytelling .

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Originally Posted by Linx0r

Personally I hope that the story moves in a GOT mode and kills off all we are attached to - just for a more interesting story. Amnesia is NOT good storytelling .

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Sure, 'cause "kill everyone for the sake of killing them" is a good story... *rolls eyes*

A good story is a good story. Sure, amnesia almost never brings good storytelling, but a cliché such as this one won't either. This game needs only that the writers are left alone, and can do whatever they want, so we finally get a whole arc that's not interrupted by a random "nah, let's simplify things" from the community or the devs...

Do people still get miserable about spoilers over 2 years old? Come on don't they have some sort of limitation to how old something is before you can complain about spoilers.

I can't wait for the remake of VII and people complain about people talking about story points from a game over 20 years old. OH no Aerith/Aeris dies. She died over 20 years ago.

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Originally Posted by MuseTraveller

I used to love Haurchefant and loved that we got a minion of him that I hugged all he time... but his death felt rubbed in our faces over and over and OVER again. Short stories, that HW journey, the Fortems shield,the undelivered letter, ok we get it, we must feel sad about him forever. I hate to say it but I reached a point where I don't want to hear about him anymore. All this is great but, its enough. I feel like it's being milked now.I suppose I still love the character but I'm really fed up with his death.

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I liked him as a character, but...he had a personality, so he obviously had to go. Can't have that, nope. Tbh, he wasn't really around long enough for me to care as much as SE apparently wanted me to. It was just a shame to see another character with personality and potential killed off while we stared in wonder. Hearing about him through the entirety of HW didn't really make me care any more than I already did.

I'm just glad that SB brought a few memorable characters that I've actually come to like and started to care about them.

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Originally Posted by Linx0r

Personally I hope that the story moves in a GOT mode and kills off all we are attached to - just for a more interesting story. Amnesia is NOT good storytelling .

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I feel like the game is already killing off an awful lot of characters over time. Not always major ones, but enough for an overall impression of "lots of people are dying in this story, and nobody is safe".

From memory, up to where I am early in Stormblood:

Edda's side story. The massacre at the Waking Sands - I had been talking with those people at every turn of the story and following their little individual plots build up. Moenbryda. Wilred. Haurchefant. Ysayle. Minfilia - not dead but beyond our reach. Mide from the Alexander quests, likewise. The soldier from the Waring Triad questline. That time we tried to rescue the kobold kid's parents. Papalymo. The attack on the Reach. Yotsuyu forcing villagers to shoot each other for her amusement.

Having more characters die will not make the story better.

(Which is not to say that further specific character deaths won't make good story elements, just that they're not the only way to have an interesting plot. Too many deaths and they start to lose their individual significance.)

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Originally Posted by Moonlite

Do people still get miserable about spoilers over 2 years old? Come on don't they have some sort of limitation to how old something is before you can complain about spoilers.

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New people are still coming in - I'm one of them. I thought the general discussion forum seemed safe because it was where people talked about minor elements like glamour and game mechanics - I've been steering well clear of the lore forum and others that seemed likely to have spoiler discussions.

It might be "old spoilers" but it's still polite to avoid bringing them up in places where new players could be reading it.

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Originally Posted by Linx0r

Personally I hope that the story moves in a GOT mode and kills off all we are attached to - just for a more interesting story. Amnesia is NOT good storytelling .

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Thanks to GoT people now believe that mindlessly killing of characters is great but imo its not..using only death in stories will just feel cheap after a while..I already dont invest much time in the characters of FF14 anymore (other than those that I already liked from before) because why should I care about someone thats just killed of cheaply later?

Show lots of death in war? Fine, that makes sense and its also fine if we might lose some known NPCs through that. Have a death that pushes the story along in a meaningful way? Fine too. Kill someone just to have a sad scene? Not fine and just the easiest way to right drama in a story..how about a mistake on our side that leaves someone we deeply care for badly wounded for the rest of their life and dealing with the changes in the story. Heck this could be a good way to write out characters without killing them off..SE seems to love killing of characters for the sake of drama or hurt them which have mostly no consequences on the character. (Ysthola for example or even Raubahn) But leaving a character truly wounded for the rest of their life with consequences is seemingly not something they want to right about..maybe because you need to invest in the development of the character and all the people around them which is imo way harder to write than someone dieying and people crying about it. (And suddenly getting their character changed thanks to that)

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Originally Posted by MuseTraveller

I feel like it's being milked now. I suppose I still love the character but I'm really fed up with his death.

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Even though he remains my favourite I still think we've gotten far too much stuff for him when we've barely gotten anything for other characters we've lost.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Haven't come across the letter; is that one of the Moogle postman quests? I need to do those.

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It was a "Tales from the . . ." story, "Thoughts Unspoken".

Vows Unbroken is also a Haurchefant story, I think he may be the only character to ever be the focus of two of these things (note to the newer players, every single one of these stories is loaded with spoilers).

@Alleo: Exactly. Character deaths can be a great tool for growth and helping really push a story forward. However, many times they feel forced or done just for shock value or a cheap emotional moment. It's very rarely done well.

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Originally Posted by FJerome

Even though he remains my favourite I still think we've gotten far too much stuff for him when we've barely gotten anything for other characters we've lost.

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I do have to agree on that! While I don't think the focus on him is inherently too much for that storyline, it feels like it's relatively too much compared to how little dedicated focus some other important characters' deaths got.

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Originally Posted by FJerome

It was a "Tales from the . . ." story, "Thoughts Unspoken".

Vows Unbroken is also a Haurchefant story, I think he may be the only character to ever be the focus of two of these things (note to the newer players, every single one of these stories is loaded with spoilers).

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Ah, thankyou for those links! I stumbled across them ages ago when I'd just started out and I knew they'd be full of spoilers. Now it's time that I can come back and read them. The "Tales from the Calamity" also make some of the 1.0 story clearer - I feel like they should have a better in-game guide to that, for players who never got to experience that part of the story and don't have all the knowledge of events that older players had.

Gives me a couple of answers on character ages as well, which I'd been wondering about. (Francel is 22 and Haurchefant is 28. Minfilia is ~25 and Thancred is five years older. Nanamo is 21.) Also, from Alphinaud's journal, that a few months have passed between fleeing Ul'dah and the visit to Zenith.

Slightly odd thing I noticed though, with character descriptions in those stories - I would say Haurchefant and Estinien have teal-coloured hair, but the stories describe them as silver/white. Colour perception weirdness going on somewhere in there!

(Also had to giggle at a certain character in one of the Calamity stories being described as acting "like a knight of Ishgard" because... yeah, I picked up on the in-game foreshadowing about that - one of the few things I 'saw coming' in this game - and it's funny to see another reference to it thrown in so casually here...)

I'll have to remember to come back and read the Stormblood ones after I've finished that part of the game.

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Originally Posted by Ryaz

@Alleo: Exactly. Character deaths can be a great tool for growth and helping really push a story forward. However, many times they feel forced or done just for shock value or a cheap emotional moment. It's very rarely done well.

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I agree and should have elaborated a bit more. Develop characters so we have feelings for them, then have them either stay as part of the family, or plot twist, or kill them off. This is why it worked with Hauch. More of that. All men must die sometime

SE can we please get the image OP posted as a painting in the game? <3

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Originally Posted by Zeonx

I don't see what was so great about him.

He jumped in front of a beam that the warrior of light probably could of deflected himself and died.
I don't call that being a heroic I call that throwing his life away for absolutely nothing.

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I always wonder what would’ve happened if we got hit by it.

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Originally Posted by Fredco191

I always wonder what would’ve happened if we got hit by it.

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Well going by Thordan EX the WoL atleast believes it could kill them or com close to it. If I remember right it also gives a healing debuff.