Omega and Midgarsomr - Possible XV origins

As we know, the Sigmascape is coming to Final Fantasy XV with the Royal Edition update. It is also implied that Omega might have been created by the ancient people of Solheim, in order to rebel against the six astrals. At this point it is just speculation, but if its true then it has big consequences for XIV's story.

http://i63.tinypic.com/2a7xtnn.jpg

Omega isn't really a problem, but Midgardsomr is. In Final Fantasy XV he is just a common snake enemy. How could he possibly have come from Eos if that is the case? This makes no sense.

http://i64.tinypic.com/ruuulf.jpg

Remember that Omega is one of the few beings that can travel between the games. Gilgamesh is also one of these. Midgardsomr is talked as if he did, but we don't know enough about him to be sure. Also nobody really knows if the Gilgamesh in XV is even the same as other games. Nomura, and his teams haven't been quite clear on that. I think they should, because if they're going to deal with these characters, then they need to make sure they are careful about the way they tread on other games.

When you say "Sigmascape" do you mean that the word Sigmascape appeared in FFXV promotions somewhere?

[It was made by an ancient civilization.] is to Omega what [There are black ones that can fly.] is to chocobos - something that is simply baked into the template. Along with [It came here from...elsewhere...], it's just a repetitive feature of the various machines' histories.

Thus, to conclude that any Omegas are the same entity (without iron-clad in-game and/or developer confirmation) may be a mistake.

It's similar to Gilgamesh - it's baked into the template that Final Fantasy Gilgameshes often [came from...elsewhere...] and [can use portals not open to the majority of creation]. One confirmed instance of a game opting-in to them being the same entity, two or three deliberately ambiguous ones, and a handful of Gilgamesh that merely follow the template without further comment have spawned countless versions of fan theories that MORE or ALL Gilgamesh must therefore be the same "man", including some that he was "born" in Type-0 before going to FFXI and so on, lol.

Naoki Yoshida has repeatedly stated (including during Deltascape, when people falsely claimed XIV Omega was the same entity from FFV) that Hydaelyn is isolated, which implies [A] the cross-over events are just pseudocanon funtimes (see: Yo-Kai Watch) and [B] just because something might be canon within, say Dissidia or Mobius, does not necessarily mean that it's canon outside of it. I feel like that statement holds the most authority until he himself recants it.

That is, unless I've missed some XV promos that say otherwise.

I am...not up to date, lol.

If you REALLY wanted to go for "Omega goes to different games" you don't even have to say its the same Omega. The Omega created in XII was given the ability to reproduce, with the mimics of that game also being lesser versions/possibly born from it. The Omega you fight is "Omega Mark XII" so it might not even be the original, and the one we know was the original from the documents you can find out about it also say it dissapeared shortly after facing off against its target (Implied to be Yiazmat, a dragon that is the last hunt target you can go against and also unlocks Omega Mark XII to fight.)

So you could say that the XIV Omega was spawned from the XII Omega, same with many other Omegas. Hell the FFV GBA version actually has a dungeon room FULL of Omegas and holding a Omega Mark II.

That said Omega tends to be seen as "shows up in many games but isn't the same exact character" like the Cids, rather than "Might actually be the same character" like Gilgamesh is seen/implied to be. The same for Shinryu at that, he tends to just be a bonus boss but turns out to have a MUCH bigger role in Dissidia (and with no Omega to boot funnily enough.)

Regardless of what you may think, I still want to hear what the devs would have to say of this. It has not been cleared up.

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Originally Posted by DamianFatale

Regardless of what you may think, I still want to hear what the devs would have to say of this. It has not been cleared up.

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The games aren't connected. Full stop.

Every other FF game referenced in FFXIV have been as "fairy tales" or "children's stories".

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Originally Posted by DamianFatale

It has not been cleared up.

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I dunno, precedent makes it seem pretty clear to me: they aren't the same beings. Omega looking similar means about as much as, say, XIV's Goblins looking identical to XI's - that is to say, nothing. And since XV's Midgardsormr being at all related to XIV's is predicated exclusively on the idea that this Omega is the same, it's a total non-issue.

What makes you think either of these are the same entities that appear in XIV?

One one hand...

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Originally Posted by Kazutoyo Maehiro (Main Scenario Writer; 2.0, 3.0)

To be absolutely clear, there is no direct connection between FFXIV’s Hydaelyn and FFXII’s Ivalice or even FFXI’s Vana’diel. They are not the same world in different dimensions or time—they are their own separate worlds.

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Originally Posted by Naoki Yoshida

[As of Return to Ivalice, on the subject of Hydaelyn's isolation] My stance, personally, has not changed.

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On the other hand, I understand that people sometimes need the devs to reaffirm these things. Sometimes, when new content is released, things change. Perspective evolves. I've yet to see cause to believe that things have changed on this front, but I've been wrong before. And I can't count how many times people have needed their confidence restored that the time bubble didn't burst, sight unseen, between patches somewhere.

So in terms of, "I'd like to hear it from the devs again." Eh, that's fair.

Even I'm just an archivist. :P

I've always liked the idea of Gilgamesh being the same guy in every world... but he's an exception... if it's ever made Canon that he is in fact the same guy I hope they never explain how... that mystery fits him too well..
As for everyone else they are just similar but not the same people/entities...

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Originally Posted by Okamimaru

I've always liked the idea of Gilgamesh being the same guy in every world... but he's an exception... if it's ever made Canon that he is in fact the same guy I hope they never explain how... that mystery fits him too well..
As for everyone else they are just similar but not the same people/entities...

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He always seems to pop up via the interdimensional rift. But since he's really not a serious character, I don't mind that he just kind of blunders his way into the other games.

FFXV's Gilgamesh is one of those characters where they just named him "Gilgamesh" because every FF has to have a Gilgamesh, but he's a dark-and-grim man with a Mysterious Tragic Backstory(TM) and trying to make it fit so he's the same guy as Greg is a bit brain-breaking.

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Originally Posted by FJerome

FFXV's Gilgamesh is one of those characters where they just named him "Gilgamesh" because every FF has to have a Gilgamesh, but he's a dark-and-grim man with a Mysterious Tragic Backstory(TM) and trying to make it fit so he's the same guy as Greg is a bit brain-breaking.

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In XI he was just the Samurai job quest NPC dude with minor storyline importance.

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/...20101022155529

Greg is a bit different since we KNOW it's the same Gilgamesh in most games... but SE sometimes forgets and pulls a Cid instead.

I think Midgardsormr has the same issue since the name's attached at random to an early, snake-like boss in FFVII. It's more Cid than Greg, but with FFXIV's Middy being a character of extreme importance.

Omega's also been shown to be at odds with Shinryu as a themetic detail in other FF's, and we have hard evidence that the old versions of Shinryu are a totally different one from Ilberd's. The name Shinryu was given as the Domans have their own legend regarding a super powerful and evil dragon, and they remarked the primal as resembling such since they had not witnessed Bahamut's calamity. The alliance adopted the name for clarity's sake. It is an in universe fairy tail, though we don't know if the Shinryu Domans speak of is related to another dimension hopping dragon.


That said, I don't think the relation is direct at all, and it's the same as with old summons being primals. Omega is just like that in that he has design details that have been pretty consistent. Like Shiva and bikinis.

FF's are not connected and are not part of the same Universe.
FF world work more like parallel universes where similar things happen and similar entities exist. They are very similar but not quite the same.
Like Cid for example. He is always the tech engineer guy associated with machines and flying ships.
So please stop connecting them. The only things that may be exactly the same and traverse through the universes are things SE made canon like the Lightning event where the same hero from XIII traversed through universes to our world.
Omega could be the same Omega as XV but could be not. SE didn't clarify this so it's not canon.
Midgarsomr nope. I killed that guy in XV so he can't be. Plus he was way smaller and not scetient.

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

One one hand...





On the other hand, I understand that people sometimes need the devs to reaffirm these things. Sometimes, when new content is released, things change. Perspective evolves. I've yet to see cause to believe that things have changed on this front, but I've been wrong before. And I can't count how many times people have needed their confidence restored that the time bubble didn't burst, sight unseen, between patches somewhere.

So in terms of, "I'd like to hear it from the devs again." Eh, that's fair.

Even I'm just an archivist. :P

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While it is true they're different dimensions
FFXV Omega spoilers

Omega literally comes into Insomnia straight through the Interdimension Rift, also, I can't help but notice his look is very similar to how he looks in XIV, but with a few upgrades, Gladio remarks that Omega has been mentioned in the history of Eos, but he could be simply repeating what he did on Hydaelyn. This Omega looks like he's the same one, but perhaps upgraded following its predicted battle with the Warrior of Light (since I don't think we will destroy Omega)

Comparison pictures
https://i.imgur.com/DHTNp65.jpg
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/...20170704175423

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Originally Posted by Riardon

So please stop connecting them. The only things that may be exactly the same and traverse through the universes are things SE made canon like the Lightning event where the same hero from XIII traversed through universes to our world.

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I'm still not entirely certain why the FFVI versions of Mina and Shun bothered to thank us for Doma after Sigmascape 1.0 Normal.

Or if Dissidia star Y'shtola recognizing the Wind-Up Kefka as "eerily familiar" means anything.

I do agree that for most purposes, FFXIV is its own separate setting, unrelated to the others. But then there are all these little references and shout-outs that keep happening, so I never know whether to take them seriously, or just wave them off as "localization being silly again, ignore".

There's always been hints to other Final Fantasy titles in every game. The developers always leave it up to the fans to decide what it means. I don't think we'd ever get confirmation that XV's Omega is the same one from XIV. It would ruin the mystique.

Worth noting that FFVII and FFX actually do canonically share a universe.

And in the best way! (With the explicit opting-in of the creators.)

https://i.imgur.com/bRrWocG.png

That midgarsormr in XV is not the same as in XIV. He's just a regular giant serpent beast like in VII. Interestingly, Midgardsormr's backstory with Omega in XIV strongly resembles the story of Omega and Shinryu in FFV. It is very likely that he is the source of the original Shinryu myth in Doma.

There are many different Omegas. Most of them are capable of interdimensional travel and many of them may or may not be the same entity.

- There was one built by the Lufenians in the world of FFI and is in Dissidia. This one was apparently defeated and sealed by Chaos along with the Summons.

- There's Omega in FFV, who came from a different planet and arrived chasing Shinryu. Even the 12 legendary weapons were powerless against the two of them and they were shut in the Rift. This may be the same one from Dissidia.

- There's Omega Mk II in the FFV remakes. This is probably a different being since the same party also encountered the other one, though it's possible he simply repaired and upgraded himself, as he said he likes to do in XIV.

- There's Omega in XIII-2, who is simply an interdimensional machine summoned to the arena by Valfodr. He is also likely the same being.

- There's Omega in XV. A Niflheim scientist discovered him and concluded he was a machine created by ancient Solheim to battle The Six. He also tinkered with it and added some Niflheim tech, which is why the weaponry looks odd. It should be noted that this being a creation of Solheim is merely the assumption of the Niflheim scientist. It possesses the same interdimensional abilities and look of the usual Omega. Remember that in XIV Omega was originally assumed to be of Allag origin.

- Omega Mk XII in not the reoccurring Omega. He is a mimic created by the man who invented mimics in Ivalice. His strongest creation escaped, absorbed a bunch of mist, and got stronger. While extremely powerful, it has displayed no interdimensional abilities.

- There's also an Omega in XI. A somewhat unimpressive Zilartian (Jeunan?) battle bot. Not the same being.

Gilgamesh is the same character in most of his appearances. He looks and acts the same, travels dimensions, and regularly mentions Bartz by name. There are a few exceptions where it's just the name. FFXI's and FFXV's Gilgamesh are clearly different people. They look nothing alike and have their own histories with no indication they'd ever become anything else.

Type-0's is a bit iffier. He's a much more serious character but physically resembles the usual Gilgamesh. He has quite a traumatizing life. Lost all of his people and his best friend Enkidu, then ends up in the Rift. Seems like a pretty easy segue to say he loses his marbles and becomes the Gilgamesh we all know and love. This is not confirmed though.

Shinryu comparatively has very few appearances. Most of his homages are different characters like Yiazmat. On the whole he usually has little to no story too. He really only has lore in Dissidia, which paints him as the same dragon from FFV who fought with Omega. Omega has a thing for fighting dragons in general.

It is fact that there is a shared FF multiverse/universe connected by the Rift/space. There are several spinoff games where this is the focus of the story. In the main games, this never has any significance beyond cameos and some optional superboss lore though. All officially published media in the series is canon unless stated otherwise by an official source. It doesn't exactly contradict anything so I don't see what the problem is.

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Originally Posted by RomildaRayne

Worth noting that FFVII and FFX actually do canonically share a universe.

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I'd take that with one very big grain of salt though, as it's never been explicitly mentioned anywhere in the actual FFVII Compilation titles at all that it shares it's universe with FFX (in fact, the whole reason this idea is even considered was comments made by Shinra in FFX-2 about 'massive energy' inside Spira that could be potentially used as a power source), and Kitase and Nojima's tongue-in-cheek 'clarification' about it, showing that even they don't really take the concept that seriously (and seem to be amused at those who actually do - Shinra's comments were just a fanservice reference to FFVII without directly connecting FFX to it, just like here in FFXIV with things like the Crystal Tower and even the Ivalice raid, it was fanservice, nothing deeper).

Besides, despite the above vague FFX-2 reference to Mako energy, Spira and the Planet have entirely different metaphysical frameworks: if FFVII really was in FFX's universe, then why don't the dead require sending in FFVII for instance? Or why isn't there materia found in FFX? The two worlds are simply too different to logically exist in the same universe running under the same rules. Thus I'm taking Kitase and Nojima's comments as tongue-in-cheek at best and retconning at worst. But I digress...

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

Besides, despite the above vague FFX-2 reference to Mako energy, Spira and the Planet have entirely different metaphysical frameworks: if FFVII really was in FFX's universe, then why don't the dead require sending in FFVII for instance? Or why isn't there materia found in FFX? The two worlds are simply too different to logically exist in the same universe running under the same rules. Thus I'm taking Kitase and Nojima's comments as tongue-in-cheek at best and retconning at worst. But I digress...

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Also to be taken with a grain of salt (because I can't source it), but I recall reading that the connection isn't even the same planet - Shin Ra's descendents eventually leave Spira and colonize another planet, and THAT turns out to be the setting of VII. If true, that's a slightly more tenuous connection than is usually implied when this gets brought up.

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

Besides, despite the above vague FFX-2 reference to Mako energy, Spira and the Planet have entirely different metaphysical frameworks: if FFVII really was in FFX's universe, then why don't the dead require sending in FFVII for instance? Or why isn't there materia found in FFX? The two worlds are simply too different to logically exist in the same universe running under the same rules. Thus I'm taking Kitase and Nojima's comments as tongue-in-cheek at best and retconning at worst. But I digress...

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This is a fantasy universe where the mothercrystals of planets are sentient entities, presumably with their own personalities. It's entirely feasible that the natural processes of different planet's aether will behave slightly differently. Perhaps the dead aren't absorbed back into the planet as efficiently on Spira as on other planets. The overall functionality is still very similar though. Lifestream. Pyreflies. Mist. It's all the stuff of souls and the lifeblood of the planets. FFX has spheres. These are very similar to materia. Both are crystalized variations of the planet's "lifestream" and can be used to enhance the abilities of a person. Just a Mist crystalizes into Magicite in FFXII. In the end it's just variations of the same Aetherial behavior.

If it can help, the Omega reports in FFXV actually mirrors the story of the allagan datalogs from FFXIV about Omega, I guess that the appearance of it is just a reference to the FFXIV Omega instead of them beign the very same thing