Advice for Newbie Tank on Pulls

So I started to learn how to tank, leveled mostly through POTD. Then I practiced through Squadron Missions, then I did roulettes with a friend. I have the basics of dungeon tanking down, my issue now is pulls.

I've seen some dungeons where a tank will pull a large amount of mobs and live 95% of the time. I find that a bit intimidating so I always just pull one set of mobs and keep it small. Though I worry the others in my group will become irritated at that, I just sorta want to go at a safe pace. What are your advice on very big pulls vs small pulls?

First thing is to always communicate if your new to tanking, be well geared, and if possible learn t o use your markers if your having a tough time keeping hate so your party can focus and help out. Depending on your job, know your cool downs, and rotations. Which tank are you using? Each is a bit unique and I rather give you more helpful advice.

Over all for all 3;

Rotation on mobs, use your Cool Downs, depending if your Off tank or MT you may need job role selection.

Gear wise ; Tendency takes priority, if you craft try to go for HQ items and meld materia properly. If Not Dungeon gear until you can get tome gear.

Tips; Know when to stun , when to cover ( if PLD ), and when to mark.

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Originally Posted by ManuelBravo

First thing is to always communicate if your new to tanking, be well geared, and if possible learn t o use your markers if your having a tough time keeping hate so your party can focus and help out. Depending on your job, know your cool downs, and rotations. Which tank are you using? Each is a bit unique and I rather give you more helpful advice.

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I've been using DRK. I don't seem to be losing hate. That's one of the first things I always worried about. Generally if I saw one mob losing more health than the one I was focusing, I'd switch to that one while occasionally throwing out one of the AOEs if I saw fit.

Practice practice practice ^_^ The more dungeons you do, the more comfortable you'll get with your skills and your pulls. You don't NEED to do big pulls, just go at your own pace. Manuel's point about communication is important too. If you tell people that you're not comfortable with big pulls, most will be fine with it.

Inevitably you'll meet people for whom no pull is big enough, and all you can do is keep on going and not let them bother you too much.

When you are new to tanking there is nothing wrong with starting small, especially if you aren't used to the dungeon. However, if you want to start doing bigger and aren't sure when to wall to wall pull, try doing a double - grab the first pack of enemies and pull them to the next. A lot of places (especially past 50) will wall you past 3, so you will learn where you can possibly add one or 2 more packs and when you have to stop.

Also get practice on your cooldowns. I have seen plenty of tanks who save them for bosses. Dungeon bosses are the least dangerous encounters of a dungeon if you are doing large pulls. You are better served having them up for big pulls and rotating through them for each pull or going through all of them as necessary on some boss-to boss pulls.

Finally, if you want to start doing larger pulls, once you are moving DO NOT STOP until you reach whatever destination you set. Stutter stepping or stopping to establish aggro on a pack before moving on makes you take more damage than necessary and likely will waste resources/cooldowns of DPS and healers.

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Originally Posted by SicariusSeven

I've been using DRK. I don't seem to be losing hate. That's one of the first things I always worried about. Generally if I saw one mob losing more health than the one I was focusing, I'd switch to that one while occasionally throwing out one of the AOEs if I saw fit.

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Dark Knight oh good your in 60's,

First thing I would recommend is master the usage of Dark arts as much as possible and find a balance for MP absorption that works for you. Many DRK that I've seen stick with rotations yet have no idea how Dark Mind , Syphon strike, Quietus, abyssal Drain , and later on the Blackest night works properly.

For Role Shirk is a must if encountering Tank swapping , Low Blow for stunning, Rampart as an additional cool down for Defense, Provoke a must.


Depending on party dynamics you can swap some if they know how to stun or silence properly. As long as you understand that enmity is your main priority you should be fine.

At times you will get those healers that will spam regen while pulling which will trow you off track so please let them know, or carry Max potions HQ and pop if they get enmity while pulling to shift it back asap. I see we are in the same server if you like add me and we can do a few runs together if you would like to practice.

Thanks for all the advice guys! So very helpful. I will practice and communicate more. I'm just always worried about disappointment!

Large pulls wall-to-wall pulls really aren't that bad (most of them wont demand more than cure II spam), but if you dont know what you're doing, they're going to be a problem. There is a technique/trick to them, so if you dont know it you may struggle. Mechanically, here's what you want to do:

1) Preparation
If you're going to be doing a large pull, you're going to want your powerful defensive cooldowns available. The means that even if you have cooldown X available, you may not want to use it on pull Y because if you do, it wont be available for pull Z. So make sure you identify the sections that will require strong cooldowns as well as the sections where you can allow those cooldowns to recharge. Boss fights are usually good options to allow your strong cooldowns time to recharge, but there are also large pulls that have fairly low incoming damage where weaker cooldowns would be appropriate.

2) The Pull
When you are pulling, you want to sprint and grab initial aggro on mobs. If you just walk up to them and let them aggro you, they'll break off as soon as someone generates aggro (ex: healer casting a heal = instantly dead healer). You need to hit them with an aggro skill (in your case unmend/unleash/AD) so that you have some initial threat.

When you are conducting this pull, make sure it is as fluid as you can make and avoid completely stopping. If you stop mobs behind you will catch up to you and deal damage, dps may think you are ready to fight and blow cooldowns. One tip for this is that if you jump, you can keep your forward momentum while using a ranged skill on a target that is behind you.

3) The Transition to Combat
As you get ready to stop and just prior to the mobs catching up to you, use a strong defensive cooldown. Any mobs that have abilities will have queued them during the pull, every mob is going to hit you as soon as they catch up, and the healer needs a little time to recognize that the pull is stopping. Make sure you hit a strong cooldown to facilitate the transition into combat. After that, generate any additional aggro you'll need on the pack and from there, it's mostly business as usual. Chain your mitigation, dont lose threat, etc.

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If you're wanting to practice, going unsync'd by yourself into something like sastasha is fine. The biggest things to work on are smoothly picking up initial aggro on all mobs during the pull, then ending the pull with a cooldown (+ gaining additional threat.)

One last piece of advice I wanted to make sure I included: Dont be afraid to pull large. Overpulling is part of learning to tank. You'll find there are some pulls in ARR dungeons you just shouldnt make. You'll find there are certain pulls that you should only attempt with certain parties. Just have fun with it.

I think the best advice about being intimidated by large pulls is this: don’t be.
Just do it.
Sometimes, rarely, you’ll die. But this just lets you learn the limits of the gear you currently have (or the healer you’re currently with).

Seriously, you’re a tank. The best role in the game. The unstoppable force. Go wild!

You need to trust your healer a little bit, the heals in this game are really strong and just enough to keep you alive with large pulls.

Pull 2-3 groups of mobs most of times, but keep in mind the knowledge about each dungeon is the most important part of the pulling. Where and when you are able to pull more or less is the part of the that knowledge, it all comes with time, the more you play the more you know.

honestly not that big difference, 5-6 minutes more for a run is not going to impact the day....I spent way more time for just waiting someone else's cooldowns come back up in raid.....

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Originally Posted by aqskerorokero

honestly not that big difference, 5-6 minutes more for a run is not going to impact the day....I spent way more time for just waiting someone else's cooldowns come back up in raid.....

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if you tank in end game expert roulette dungeons, most people are gonna expect big pulls. and why not? they're not hard to do, and generally make things go faster.

Honestly op, you just have to have no fear and go for it. As long as you're efficiently using your cds and your healer isn't braindead, everything will be ok. If you pull big and you see that dps aren't aoeing, ask them to. Usually they oblige. Usually.

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Originally Posted by winsock

One tip for this is that if you jump, you can keep your forward momentum while using a ranged skill on a target that is behind you.

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You should try legacy controls, makes this even easier, as all you have to do, is keep running forward, and press your attacks.

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Originally Posted by SicariusSeven

What are your advice on very big pulls vs small pulls?

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For big pulls you always need the following things:

* Your gear at the best available: That extra vit always helps. i:e If you're doing Sirensong and you're barely reaching ilvl to match the drops, you'll have a hard time if you know how to use your CDs. Specially if your team doesn't know how to handle large pulls.
* Your team knows how to handle big pulls: I know this sounds dumb, but this is a big issue plenty of times. No point in doing large pulls if your: healer is not comfortable or your DPS don't know how or want to AoE.
* You understand your job's abilities and use them accordingly: Each tank has a way to handle large pulls. Since you mention DRK. Your core on this revolves on keeping MP flowing (Blood Price, Quietus) and make use of AoE abilities like Abyssal Drain, Salted Earth, Dark Passanger (Shocking!) to help the HP sustain when healers are falling behind due to them dps-ing or they are in panic mode. This along with using the bread and butter defensive cooldowns: Rampart almost on CD, Shadow Wall ready for "oh shi-" moments, Dark Mind if by test or deduction you know the damage incoming is magic type.
* You pull as much as you "feel" you can handle: We all can be intimidated at times, I am on the safe side on new dungeons but I pull 4-5 mobs with people I know while I learn the damage I receive and how comfortable I can be to drop tank stance to add dps. I deliberately do 3-4 mob pulls with DF people to see how they handle themselves. Sounds cliche but you're as strong as your team: if you pull 6 mobs and they aren't dead after a second rampart, the healer is bleeding dry and mobs still have 30-50% HP, that means something is wrong and your best approach is to lower them mob number.


Sorry for the wall of text and potential repetitiveness of my post. I'm not the best tank (not by a long shot) but I understand and have been in your shoes, and best encouragement I can give is: The worst that can happen is you'll do a 25 min run instead of a 20 min one.

If it's a dungeon known for big pulling, I typically take a quick glance at the gear of my mates, particularly looking for those synced icons next to their gear. If everyone is over-geared, you really don't have a whole lot to worry about with big pulls, and honestly have to pull big for the dungeon to be any kind of a threat.

Since I play DRK (bear in mind mine is only 60), I like to make sure most, if not all resources are available for a big pull. I don't mind if they're recharging during the pull so long as they will be available when I get to the stopping point. I like to have both Shadow Wall and Rampart available, first for the AD spam phase of the pull, and then the second after I have dumped my MP and ready to go into Blood Weapon so I don't take 'as' much damage outside of Grit while regenerating my MP.

Convalescence is also good for the initial damage since that is when every mob you pulled is crashing down on your face. Have to remember that it's a big pull that poses the biggest threat to a tank, and ultimately the group throughout the whole dungeon. So cycling those mitigation CDs really help keep you alive and avoid unnecessary pressure on your healers.

For really big pulls, I have found Ultimatum more useful than Provoke if I happen to lose one of the mobs, or mistimed an Unleash. I play on controller, so single targeting a mob amongst the madness of 3-4 packs can be difficult. So instead of cycling through the enmity list, I cast Ultimatum and then Unleash and call it a day.

I think your own gut also factors into the success of a big pull. From personal experience, every time I didn't listen to the voice in my head that said, "if you pull one more, it'll be too much" I've regretted it. That same voice also tells me it is safe to pull larger when I see the group performing at a high level, so again it is best to listen to it.

Last is have faith in your group. Trust them to do their jobs as they trust you to do yours. If a wipe happens, you just get up and go again while keeping in mind how the wipe happened.

You've got a lot of tools available to offset damage, but it all comes down to your healer, really. Talk to them BEFORE you start pulling, and ask how big they want you to go. It'll save you a lot of stress.

Depends completely on the gear and skill level of the dps and healer. If the dps is lacking then usually after the first pull you can determine whether to do large pulls or not.

The first thing to realize Is there's nothing to be intimated by its just a matter of learning which CD rotation works best so that you can have some stuff up for every pull.

Sadly I'll admit I'm not a big fan of DRK but the best tank advice I can give you is, there is no shame in dying this game gives no penalty for it. Once you realize that, a lot of the pressure is gone. Grab 3 friends and bang out some instances and push your limits. Ask your healer hour each pull feels, adjust accordingly. The issue isn't if you die the issue is if you don't learn anything from the death

As a tank, personally, I NEVER focus on one mob. I learnt tanking

with the pld back in ARR, and the key to be a good tank was to "distribute" your attacks efficiently, in order to build enough agro on the whole pull, and not be surprised when a blm burst on a mob on which you lack agro.
I\\\\'m just beginning to level up my tanks from 60, after having mastered pld and war back in HW. I can\\\\'t help you with the drk, as I literally HATE this class, but the main difficulty with big pulls comes from the 2 dps generating huge amounts of agro on each and every mob of the pull, with their aoe.
So the point here is : do exactly the same !! Remember : you\\\\'re here to be a punching-ball, NOT to deal damage. If you need to spam your agro-generating aoe all the fight long in order to be sure to keep all mobs on you, then do it ! It\\\\'s absolutely not a problem. I often did that when leveling my drk back in HW. If you lack some MP to do that, then just spam, like, 6 or 7 times, then distribute your MP combo wisely, then repeat.

With some practice, you'll find the good pace for you. Don't hesitate to communicate, look at healer and dps stuffs to try to determine your agro-keeping capabilities and your survivability, maybe look at other healer jobs mastered by the healer, it can give you some clues about his/her way of healing...
And good luck!

On patch day: I pull small and get hit by every mechanic and mob ability on purpose. I tell the party this ahead of time. Now I know what mobs are capable of.

After patch day: I pull as many mobs as possible to see what my current gear level is capable of. Most of the time you can go all the way. Sometimes there's a wipe. But death in this game is a necessary step towards long-term supremacy and mastery of big pulls.

What I find that helps most is making a macro for your party and hitting it before the biggest pulls of the dungeon
"/p Big Pull (Hallowed, Sprint, LB, etc ♪)" <se.3>


Which let's the party know:
1. I'm going to be using 20 seconds of Sprint to round up all the mobs so I can outrun enemy auto-attacks along the way. Therefore you may also want to use Sprint to keep up with me.

2. I'm going to be opening with 10 seconds of Hallowed Ground, therefore you don't need to stress about healing me right away, and you can save Holy Spam Stuns for after it wears off. (Usually I Hallowed --> Sentinel --> Rampart + Convalescence + Requiescat + Clemency + Sheltron --> Bulwark + Awareness + Shield Bash every mob once --> Passage of Arms if there's still too much alive.)

3. You may want to Mage LB or Ranged LB these trash mobs so that they die before the Healer and Tank's cooldowns run out.

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Originally Posted by SicariusSeven

So I started to learn how to tank, leveled mostly through POTD. Then I practiced through Squadron Missions, then I did roulettes with a friend. I have the basics of dungeon tanking down, my issue now is pulls.

I've seen some dungeons where a tank will pull a large amount of mobs and live 95% of the time. I find that a bit intimidating so I always just pull one set of mobs and keep it small. Though I worry the others in my group will become irritated at that, I just sorta want to go at a safe pace. What are your advice on very big pulls vs small pulls?

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Screw the public. You are the tank. You're the badass that signed up to be the role that fewest people want to do. Without you, your group would be waiting another 20 minutes for someone else as badass as you. Therefore... you go at the pace you want. People need to learn to respect how fast a tank wants to go and be patient, especially for a player who is learning to tank.

In more detail... you have to control the pace yourself because you are the one able to gauge your damage taken and the ability of your healer. As a tank, you know how much damage you take in given dungeons with given pulls. Nobody else knows how much damage you're going to take. With some experience, you will get a feel for how good healers are after a few pulls. If they are really good and you know you're taking pitiful damage, go get yourself some more adds.

I usually make liberal use of cooldowns and stagger them. I try not to have more than one damage reducing cooldown up at a time (unless it's Dark Mind and a physical reducer). I pull as many as I feel comfortable with, knowing that I have Convalescence, Rampart or Shadow Wall available and use one of them. If the damage is more than I expect, I will put up a second cooldown if necessary.

The worst situation you can be in is when you know you and your healer are not prepared for a large pull because of gear or the healer's speed/ability, but some jackass is screaming "pull more" because he wants big numbers on his screen. Fortunately this does not happen too often. Most people respect the speed their tank wants to go, and are just happy to have a tank at all after waiting 15+ minutes in queue.