MNK to the left SAM to the right and in the middle is?....

So my question is what's the middle ground inbetween monk and samurai. I like both but I find monk extremely frustrating sometimes; the job premise is to keep GL up but I often find your party to hinder that. Whether it's the tank not pulling fast enough or other dps not letting you get that last move on to refresh the timer. It's better since the update and the cool doe for perfect balance but I kinda like to use that for a tornado kick as that move imo is kinda redundant causing you to lose GL. At best it's very situational. Not to mention monk seems to have the largest positional move list. And samurai is kinda boring because it seems to be the same rotations over and over with the odd kenki move thrown in. I may be simplifying a little but I hope you all get the point. So my question is what dps is in the middle of these? Or the balance of each. I want a dps that isn't button bashing or so restrained by timers and unforgiving by positional skills

Depends on if you still want to be melee or if you're willing to be either ranged or caster DPS.

If melee, Dragoon has positionals, but they're not as erratic as those of Monk, while Ninja has less on positionals, but a lot more things going on like Ninki and Ninjutsu.

If ranged, Bard would probably be right up your alley, while Machinist has issues with both timing, button bashing and general RNG woes.

If caster, Red Mage is around the same level of simplicity as Samurai, Summoner has a couple of timers but aren't as major as GL stacks, and Black Mage kinda has the worst of both worlds.

Ninja and Dragoon seem to be the middle ground. Both have positionals but not as annoying as Monk's. Both have similar rotation's to Samurai, having a different ability thrown in once in a while. I for one find Samurai relaxing to play. Monk I do like but I do get annoyed at all the maneuvering at times.

It mostly just sounds like you don't like melee dps to be honest. You can try casting or playing a caster.

The answer, bluntly, is don't play dps. The timers/positionals are part of what makes all dps function. Without those, you do less than healers. I'd suggest playing a tank and you can 'ignore' most of the issues you have with dps in general. However, you're still going to run into the whole timing thing if you do want to play them at an optimal level.

It's nothing to do with disliking dps. I dislike the amount of effort you put into monk for example for it to get ruined by extenuating factors out of your individual control. Thanks for the options of Nin or Drg

It might not solve your overarching problems with MNK but tbh you never use Perfect Balance to get a "free" Tornado Kick. Tornado Kick still sucks and you still only use it if you're going to lose your GL stacks anyway. Perfect Balance is your "fix" for losing GL for factors outside of your control, not something you use off CD to mash Tornado Kick (330 potency LUL SE pls).

Then the ideal melee dps job doesn't exist currently foe you. You're going to have to look into the magic or ranged classes.

I actually like monk but I just get pissed off when outside factors effect your overall dps. I don't mind positionals otherwise you just get button mashing bordem. I just want a dps that isn't governed by a timer and so many positionals. I'm gutted it isn't monk because I like it so much. I understand the comment you mean with PB however it's nice to just have fun with abilities to get a 'free' tornado kick for example. Obviously if there is no middle ground I'll stick with Sam or mnk

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Originally Posted by addz3

So my question is what's the middle ground inbetween monk and samurai. I like both but I find monk extremely frustrating sometimes; the job premise is to keep GL up but I often find your party to hinder that. Whether it's the tank not pulling fast enough or other dps not letting you get that last move on to refresh the timer.

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You shouldnt be thinking about "I gotta keep GL up all the time!" for trash pulls. Its nice if it happens, but being mad about it during trash is really silly.

If MNK is on the West, and SAM is on the East then DRG probably on the south and NIN in the north. (Jk lol)

I dunno if it's just me but it's really maddening when the tanks don't wait for PB or you to form shift before a boss and you have to panic to get your opener right. I understand the anger completely op.

I get the "tank not pulling fast enough" thing (that's why some DPS actually end up "pulling" for tanks - to keep their stacks because the tank is being slow).
I don't get the "DPS not letting you land an attack to refresh" thing.. What the other DPS does is practically none of your concern, provided you aren't tripping over each other and running mechanics into each other.

Look, you can "simplify" any job in this game.
To me MNK is just pressing the same 6x skills over and over in a slightly different order while mashing oGCD skills between them. It also barely changes between lvl 50 and level 70.

So I am not really sure of what you're asking. However the closest job to "not button bashing" and isn't restrained by timers is probably NIN. In fact even DRG is probably closer to what you're asking for.. MNK is basically the opposite of what you described, as it's basically the definition of button bashing.

SAM to the right of them, MNK to the left of them, Lesser DPS in front of them, salty and thundered.

I have mained monk since 2.0.

In savage, monk isn't nearly as frustrating. You development strats and can plan out when/if you're gonna lose stacks, a good time to use true north, etc etc.

I would never play monk in casual dungeons. Like you said, it's far too dependent on the rest of the party, tanks especially.

"...and here I am, stuck in the middle with you"?

I keep hearing that song in my head every time I see the thread title.

I would say try DRG. Timers on DRG are easy to grasp, and the postionals aren't too bad.

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Originally Posted by Melichoir

You shouldnt be thinking about "I gotta keep GL up all the time!" for trash pulls. Its nice if it happens, but being mad about it during trash is really silly.

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Apart from the breaks between certain bosses and the following trash pulls, there's no point at which you're forced to lose GL in the majority of dungeons. If your tank isn't allowing for that, they are necessarily wasting time without benefit.

Speaking as a tank, you have every reason to be mad if your tank doesn't allow you to keep up GL. My trash pulls usually begin with Sprint per-pop, Low Blow so the Monk has something to Coeurl even if they're lagging, and grabbing up the rest at such a speed that they can at least maintain GL over the long gather. I'd rather you pull for yourself and I take as I run past than you lose GL.

Will the majority of DF tanks do this, however? Not quite. Close, but not quite. And neither will the getting mad do anything but hurt your own performance and morale. But it's not something to just accept as an inevitable loss.

On topic: Skill Speed and the GCD caused given the durations of the class's buffs and debuffs can often do more to diversify or find commonalities between classes than their unique mechanics. SAM and MNK feel incredibly similar at around a 1.85- and 2-second GCD, respectively, for instance. NIN and SAM, similarly, feel quite alike if playing at low pings at yet more particular GCD speeds.