Thread for Ex/Savage Strategies

Good evening,


So now that I've finally started made tanking my main job again, I now have a question on how to get better at my role. The purpose of this thread is discussion not only for my question, but for good strategies/optimization talks specifically when you are in Ex or Savage mode fights. Like, for example, RDMs, if your party uses a cooldown, throw up an acceleration and start hardcasting either Verthunder or Veraero at about the 4 second mark on the countdown.

My particular question right now...I main a PLD and am comfortable as OT more than anything. But if I'm the MT, I am finding it a little uncomfortable to switch into Sword Oath and finish the fight that way. Everytime someone gets close to taking aggro, I get nervous and switch into Shield - I usually miss a GCD as well. What are some good tips on, say, for the sake of discussion, O6S which doesn't really need a swap. How do I maintain aggro, while pushing out decent DPS as the MT? My last numbers are 3.2k, which kinda disappoints me because that's not even average compared to everyone else (and that was when I was just the OT...with NO deaths). I should add on that I'm using raid gear and I've melded DH.

Feel free to discuss other helpful tips specific to high-end duties as well that would be helpful.

For MT role, you need OT to help you by using provoke and shirk on you occasionally to help maintain aggro outside of tank stance. Having ninja help using Shadewalker also helps during initial aggro accumulation.

DPS need to manage their aggro (if possible) and OT needs to provoke + shirk you every 2 minutes.

Right off the bat I can say unless you're running double PLD you should never be MTing as PLD. Both DRK and WAR are far better suited for the MT role on that fight and most fights in general. If for whatever reason you have to MT as others have said shirk and provoke are your friend there, along with shadewalker if possible and diversion use on cooldown by your DPS (something I've had to repeatedly request this tier for some reason and usually on deaf ears..). As for decent DPS one of the toughest things for former range players (I assume you mained healers prior to this) is greeding gcds while handling mechanics. Weaving in and out to squeeze in another gcd or leaving too early/not getting close enough to fit another in.

Also, though I haven't played pld in particular this tier you can try to line up your holy spirit/requiescat window for when you have to move to hallowed the stack marker so you don't lose uptime from being on the boss. Your placement when picking up the last kiss can also lead to lost damage if you have people making you come to them away from the boss in order to safely pass it/have it explode. I've seen groups have the ot run as far as the gate and have them stay there to handle that mechanic leading to quite a few lost gcds over the course of a fight.

Raid composition is a factor as well, having a well structured group with all the damage buffs can really add up. In general though it's the uptime that will make or break your dps so try to keep active for most of the fight and compare your CPM to other players who are parsing higher. As long as your uptime improves your damage will improve.

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Originally Posted by AxlStream

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Yeah, I learned that the shocking way yesterday in Byakko Ex. I usually do pay attention to my aggro and use Lucid Dreaming when I start to see yellow, but yesterday I spaced out and when it was my turn to stack, I had ripped aggro from the tanks and Byakko grabbed me instead and punched me into the ground. I didn't die (even though I wasn't at full health going into that!) but it was a lesson nonetheless.

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Originally Posted by Kakiko

Yeah, I learned that the shocking way yesterday in Byakko Ex. I usually do pay attention to my aggro and use Lucid Dreaming when I start to see yellow, but yesterday I spaced out and when it was my turn to stack, I had ripped aggro from the tanks and Byakko grabbed me instead and punched me into the ground. I didn't die (even though I wasn't at full health going into that!) but it was a lesson nonetheless.

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If anyone beside a tank gets grabbed for that, it's the OT failing to do the mechanic correctly (i.e. voking during State of Shock like they should be so MT hate doesn't drop to 0).

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Originally Posted by KaivaC

But if I'm the MT, I am finding it a little uncomfortable to switch into Sword Oath and finish the fight that way. Everytime someone gets close to taking aggro, I get nervous and switch into Shield - I usually miss a GCD as well. What are some good tips on, say, for the sake of discussion, O6S which doesn't really need a swap. How do I maintain aggro, while pushing out decent DPS as the MT? My last numbers are 3.2k, which kinda disappoints me because that's not even average compared to everyone else (and that was when I was just the OT...with NO deaths). I should add on that I'm using raid gear and I've melded DH.

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There's not much you can do on your end to maintain enmity if you are MT unfortunately. You are correct in switching to shield oath and throwing a few rage of halones out if enmity is close, it is the OT and DPS's job to manage emnity for the most part.

I will not beat around the bush, The most important advice I will give you is for you to look at other paladins in fflogs and see what they are doing differently than you. How many more holy spirits do they have versus you? How many more auto attacks do they get off than you? What are they doing differently than you to achieve higher dps? If you have questions about navigating FFlogs find some friends who raid or join the balance discord. There are plenty of people that would answer any questions you have there.

Watch Xeno on twitch as he is a tank main and you'll be damned to find something you can't learn from watching him. However he primarily mains war and only occasionally plays pld. Work smarter not harder, learn from other people and let other people help you. More often than not people would love to give you advice so don't be afraid to ask!

I'm coatl#4173 on discord, if you have questions or want to run some Sigma Savage I have alts that are ready to party.

Ah...so...it's a bust most of the time to try to maintain aggro without having to swap back into Sword in PUG groups?

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Originally Posted by KaivaC

Ah...so...it's a bust most of the time to try to maintain aggro without having to swap back into Sword in PUG groups?

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Yeah. You can start the fight with a rage of halone before switching to sword oath (not necessary if ninja shadewalkers you) but after that it's mostly out of your hands. The offtank can help relieve emnity issues by provoking and then shirking you, while the DPS can use diversions and lucid dreamings. The only classes that should be close on aggro are monk dragoon and samurai, every other class can dump emnity very well and don't have much excuse to rip hate off tank.

Never pull as PLD. Ever. You lose the most damage of all tanks by far and misalign your buff windows. If you want to MT, have the OT pull and you voke after he gains a bit of emnity and have him shirk you. Your dps combo is relatively straightforward GB RA RA GB RQ HS x5 repeat so maybe you just aren't getting enough uptime, try to stay on the boss as long as possible before going to do mechanics, ie wait until the cast bar fills before running to planeify yourself for the earthquake.

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Originally Posted by RLofOBFL

Never pull as PLD. Ever. You lose the most damage of all tanks by far and misalign your buff windows. If you want to MT, have the OT pull and you voke after he gains a bit of emnity and have him shirk you. Your dps combo is relatively straightforward GB RA RA GB RQ HS x5 repeat so maybe you just aren't getting enough uptime, try to stay on the boss as long as possible before going to do mechanics, ie wait until the cast bar fills before running to planeify yourself for the earthquake.

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It's not so much that I want to MT, more like specifically with O5S and O6S right now, the WAR or DRK I'm paired with more often than not want to OT. O5S doesn't matter to me as much, but O6S, HG works for the tornado stacks.

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Originally Posted by KaivaC

It's not so much that I want to MT, more like specifically with O5S and O6S right now, the WAR or DRK I'm paired with more often than not want to OT. O5S doesn't matter to me as much, but O6S, HG works for the tornado stacks.

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Then you need to explain to them that they should be pulling. There's a certain standard to go by when doing content like savage as I'm sure you know. You don't have to be rude about it obviously but holding people to a higher standard in harder content isn't a bad thing. Some may genuinely not know the benefits of pulling as WAR/DRK or may be new to raiding all together. You can consider it a learning experience and if people aren't willing to learn they shouldn't be in savage. I know plenty of people who are extremely nice and help out even the worst random groups all the time. They would and have flat out left in a situation like being forced to pull as a PLD with a DRK/WAR that won't even give it a try.

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Originally Posted by F_Maximillian

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I generally like to just go with what the majority wants, as I don't really start PF groups. I have this paranoia of being kicked, so if I offer something and the majority of the group wants it differently, I just abide by that. I tend not to really be assertive about much in endgame games unless I'm annoyed...then I just stop caring about being meek.