The Diaden and Euraka

I hope improvement made in Euraka. i do hope you have go to The diaden to mate for submariner. i also hope whatever improve made in Euraka they be apply to the Diaden too. i think how i set up euraka is you explore area when explore area. through I think funny if you have use both subermaria and airship to explore area next expansion after stormblood.

now we need land vehicale to explore with hehe


a tank maybe

I hope Diadem and Eureka are nothing alike, I do not want another big instanced zone with FATES as objectives.

If eureka is or involves another fate grind or even anything to do with fates. people are gonna be incredibly angry.

Generally speaking if they never added another fate to the game ever. It would still be too soon.

The whole reason the diadem revamp failed was because people went in once.found out it was basically just a fate grind and never went back because everyone hates fates

I think it was mentioned that there will be some sort of FATE system with superbosses, but the whole system won't be resolved around these like the Diadem. I'm looking forward to Eureka, so please SE... don't disappoint me :D. The Diadem, on the other hand, should be opened to public. They should allow solo queues and/or no lvl/ilvl restriction. It's dead content, after all. I won't completely remove it, as it's still very useful for gatherers, and you can trade spoils in for rare materials as well.

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Originally Posted by Lilseph

I think it was mentioned that there will be some sort of FATE system with superbosses, but the whole system won't be resolved around these like the Diadem. I'm looking forward to Eureka, so please SE... don't disappoint me :D. The Diadem, on the other hand, should be opened to public. They should allow solo queues and/or no lvl/ilvl restriction. It's dead content, after all. I won't completely remove it, as it's still very useful for gatherers, and you can trade spoils in for rare materials as well.

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I think what was quickly mentioned was that rewards from killing monsters would follow something similar to how FATES work. Not fully confirmed but we should have more info on the next live letter.

Looks like it will also have the death penalty after a certain elemental level. Kind of like aby in FFXI had a light system to gain more cour and stuff. Hopefully people won't complain -.- and will actually teach them to stick to mechanics. I'm sure some fate or pop item will be involve based on what we have heard so far. I just want to know how relics will work in this. I have plenty of relics just waiting to be upgraded.

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Originally Posted by ManuelBravo

I just want to know how relics will work in this. I have plenty of relics just waiting to be upgraded.

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think about the only thing I know about eureka is they said you wont be able to skip with previous relics like we could with zetas. because it's all new..

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Originally Posted by Dzian

think about the only thing I know about eureka is they said you wont be able to skip with previous relics like we could with zetas. because it's all new..

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Correct I think it will just make it easier supposedly.

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Originally Posted by MerleSirlos

I think what was quickly mentioned was that rewards from killing monsters would follow something similar to how FATES work. Not fully confirmed but we should have more info on the next live letter.

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I'm thinking it'll be similar to how Ixion, Odin, etc. work.

I wonder if FATE grinding is a foregone conclusion since they so far are 2 for 2 in making us start our relics with them, but I'm hoping they took the feedback to heart about how the community, or at least the vocal part of it, utterly abhors them. Anima wasn't as bad as Zodiac, but Zodiac's damage is done, and the PTSD is real. People generally have come to the consensus of "lottery isn't grinding, it's gambling," and simply aren't accepting it anymore.

But some part of me is thinking the reason why Eureka was delayed so much is because it WAS like Diadem and they knew they had better not dare and redesigned it. We shall see.

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Originally Posted by Dzian

If eureka is or involves another fate grind or even anything to do with fates. people are gonna be incredibly angry.

Generally speaking if they never added another fate to the game ever. It would still be too soon.

The whole reason the diadem revamp failed was because people went in once.found out it was basically just a fate grind and never went back because everyone hates fates

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I like diadem and usually have lots of fun when I get a party going.
The real problem with Diadem (and with any content that dies really) is a lack of rewards. Once a person has the mount + minion, there's little incentive to get a group going to get back in there just to be able to buy irrelevant gear or materials that are purchasable elsewhere.

Think of it this way: until the alliance roulette popped up and gave really good exp, it was really hard to get a group going for those raids. Then better rewards in the form of a roulette were added, with very little change to the content itself, and suddenly they're popular. Fun had little to do with it, since the content didn't change,it was just not rewarding enough for players. Rewards, and consistency in rewards (not like Atma fate farming where one person can get an atma in their first fate while another has to do 10), are big drivers of what people eventually find "fun" over the actual content itself.

If they do put fates in Eureka, as long as the progression is predictable for everyone and the rewards are commensurate with our effort, it would still be ok for most people.

The only problem I had with diadem was once the objective was done, your team left and you couldn't do anything alone. It sounds like they've fixed both of those problems for Eureka so I think I'll enjoy it more.

I think it will have the usual things tied to Relic like Fates, killing certain enemies, etc...
The longer they push back Eureka the less relevant Relic will become, it is already late in my opinion (not relevant wise but just to begin the actual Relic)
Hoping they do bring something fresh to it all at least

AS for Diadem i did not mind it, too bad it died so quickly

I think Eurika will be filled with fates. Group quests, solo quests and bounties. I think it will have repeatable dailies.

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Originally Posted by Maero

AS for Diadem i did not mind it, too bad it died so quickly

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It died so quick because everyone else minded it. Fates are boring as hell. And thats all the revamped diadem was. A fate train.

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Originally Posted by Squintina

Rewards, and consistency in rewards [...] are big drivers of what people eventually find "fun" over the actual content itself.

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Rewards are important in a MMO, sure - But the way I see it, rewards are primarily a compensation for a lack of enjoyment. Or as you put it, "eventually".

The more often you repeat a piece of content, the less you'll probably enjoy it. That's normal and natural - Repetition gets tedious. That means rewards are required to make people repeat the content more often that they normally would, which is important in MMOs. The better designed the content is in terms of replayability, the lower the rate of enjoyment degradation, which means the lower you need to set your rewards for a given participation effect. PvP games historically thrive off that - if the gameplay is good, they can get hugely popular in spite of no or minimal rewards. PvE games tend to struggle a lot more, because their scripted nature makes replayability worse.

As such, fun and rewards are linked - the lower the fun, the higher the reward needs to be for a person to participate still and vice versa, the more enjoyable the content, the less rewards you need to get people to join in.

For Eureka, I personally hope that they tried to work on the "fun" side of that equation, but I am expecting them to just throw a loot pinata our way to sell it as a success.

Honestly, half the details I hear in regards to Eureka sound like the FFXIV team heard FFXI fans complain about ease and convenience in FFXIV and made a zone full of all the arbitrary and overly difficult crap FFXI.

Mobs don't de-aggro if you run from them. You can lose progress on your level if you die. Horizontal progression.

All this on top of it being the least bit Diadem like has Eureka sounding worse and worse to me.

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Originally Posted by ManuelBravo

Looks like it will also have the death penalty after a certain elemental level. Kind of like aby in FFXI had a light system to gain more cour and stuff. Hopefully people won't complain -.- and will actually teach them to stick to mechanics. I'm sure some fate or pop item will be involve based on what we have heard so far. I just want to know how relics will work in this. I have plenty of relics just waiting to be upgraded.

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Of course people will complain.

https://i.imgflip.com/23scuv.jpg

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Originally Posted by RaideDuku

Of course people will complain.

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Agreed, there will always be some people who will complain about the deleveling and difficulty.

However, the amount of people will be based on how hard it is to recover from those things.

For example, losing a job level (not happening, just an example) would suck because of gear no longer working and becoming instantly much weaker right after a death making it harder to immediately get revenge on the monster that just caused the deleveling.

As we don't know how much weaker we'll feel after losing an elemental level (which is what Eureka will use), it's difficult to tell right now just how unpopular it'll be. If it's just a slight inconvenience rather than something that's soul crushing, then only a minimal amount of people will complain (but it'll never be 0 people).

If done properly it would be an incentive to be careful and play better. If done improperly it will make people skip it altogether.

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Originally Posted by Squintina

If done properly it would be an incentive to be careful and play better. If done improperly it will make people skip it altogether.

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This is my concern. It will be different for everyone, but if I can lose my own work from someone trying to get away from a mob, and getting me caught in the crossfire, I will drop Eureka until it's eventually nerfed to the ground.

I have a worry in that, due to the investment of the original relic and anima quest steps pre-nerf, having anything on par with that with a high chance of messing up and going backwards is going to turn this into a firestorm of vitriol towards the devs.

I can only hope delay after delay is them truely working out the kinks and making something enjoyable.

They've been trying to make Diadem work for the longest time so that all that time they spent developing it is not wasted. Time to let it go dev team, Diadem failed.

Diaden and Euraka.:rolleyes: