Another approach to balance tanks

4.2 is just around the corner, and to be honest: no tank is really satisfied with those preliminary changes.

And there is still another problem, one that effects all tanks in the same matter:
We still have to meld STR, our primary damage stat, into our accessories. Pentamelded iLvl 350 gear will be BiS AGAIN.
This stat problem still exists after YEARS since the release of FF14.

I doubt to see any general tank changes before 4.3 or even 4.4, esp. in this regard.

Nevertheless I want to show another possible change I would like to see in 4.2x.

1. All accessouries give full STR.

Not just SB gear, but ALL gear regarding tanks. SE already locked accessories to roles/jobs. Continue on this path, back to ARR, and lock tanks out of "STR melee DPS acc".
Then add full STR on tank acc.

This will increase all tank DPS by ~14% (from ~2150 STR to 2450), and it will give them the same STR increase per iLvl as DPS roles.

But we can't stop here, as this would be actually game breaking. So up the next point(s) where I am gonna into detail for every tank job.

2.1. PLD changes: Overall potency/dmg buff nerf.
PLD is pretty much in a perfect state right now, so no other changes needed.

FastB: 160->150
SavageB: 210->200
RiotB: 240->220
ShieldLob: 120->110
RoH: 270->250
ShieldSwipe: 150->100 (just like preliminary changes suggest)
TotalE: 110->100
CoS: DoT: 30->25
GoringB: 250->230; DoT: 60->50
RoyalA: 360->330
HolySpirit: 400->350
Requiescat: 350->320

FoF from 25% to 20%.

2.2. WAR changes: Nerf dmg buffs aka Storm's Eye, keep/nerf potencies.
The upcoming changes in 4.2 seem more like a nerf than a buff. If we're gonna keep 4.1 potencies, just nerf Storm's Eye damage buff to 8% down form 20%.

Then keep IR/zerk changes for 4.2. (I seriously can't predict how these 4.2 changes will effect overall WAR DPS.)

2.3. DRK changes: biggest problem (tank) child.
I will not suggest any other changes here, beside DPS related ones.

Unleash: 50->100 (really, make its mana worth)
Soul Eater: 300(+140 DA) -> 280(+140 DA)
DarkPassenger: reduce mana cost to ~1200-1600 OR potency back to HW's 150
Delirium: Keep CD reduction to 80s.
Bloodspiller: 400(+140 DA) -> 380(+140 DA)

• Remove x pot in Grit; change to "ignore Grit damage penality"

TBN: Either provides blood upon duration expiration or proc a Dark Arts

Dark Side dmg buff to 10%, down from 20%.

What are your thoughts about this?
Do you think SE did a good job with current tank accessories?
What would you change to balance tank stats?
Would you build in another gemmick, so tanks wouldn't get full potenial out of their accessories right away, compared to other roles? (others can meld VIT, tanks can't)

PS: If you find any grammar mistakes, keep them!

I still don't understand why VIT can't be our main stat again. It was a good fix they should have gone with. It's always 1 step forward, then backflip to where we started with the dev team.

I was hoping for changes this patch, but looks like this plus all the other lack luster changes to tanks means I was right to move on from tanking.

Slightly simpler version:
Step 1:
Put full str values on tank accs along WITH the vit.

Step 2:
Nerf every tanks potencies a little to compensate for the sudden boost in damage.

Fixes player issue: Tanks scaling 'appropriately' in the long term.
Fixes Dev stated issue: Str and Vit being separate so they can adjust the values of defense and offense as needed in the future to maintain encounter balance.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kaonis

I still don't understand why VIT can't be our main stat again.

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Because if you die all other main stats are reduced. Dex, Mind, Str. They kept VIT so you could still survive big hits and AOE. If Tanks main stat was Vit, they'd be able to do full damage in the current system if they died.

If the Dev's changed the system so that Tanks would get a Vit Down on death, they'd die to tank busters.

Step 1: Leave tanks alone and stop trying to "balance" them.

Step 2: Give WAR and DRK their previously baked-in stuns back.

Step 3: Force Devs to actually spend the same amount of time maining tank jobs that we have so they better understand the changes they make.

You're welcome. ^^

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Snarky_Sunseeker

Step 2: Give WAR and DRK their previously baked-in stuns back.

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No stuns do damage, giving WAR and DRK their stuns back would be pointless bloat that does nothing to aid with the problem that exists.

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Originally Posted by Aniya_Estlihn

No stuns do damage, giving WAR and DRK their stuns back would be pointless bloat that does nothing to aid with the problem that exists.

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My Shield Bash has a potency of 120 and doesn't require an action slot. The only current Stun option for WARs and DRKs is Low Blow, which does take up an Action Slot and does no damage.

I figured it would be nice if they got their old stuns back along with a free action slot. :3

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Snarky_Sunseeker

My Shield Bash has a potency of 120 and doesn't require an action slot. The only current Stun option for WARs and DRKs is Low Blow, which does take up an Action Slot and does no damage.

I figured it would be nice if they got their old stuns back along with a free action slot. :3

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Personally, I don't know many DRKs who do want Low Blow back unless it retains its old potency and they restore the trait that accompanied it. Any other option would be a waste of an action slot as stun isn't used that often at all anymore.

Honestly, I find the issue with this is you are focusing on a Tank being a better DPS rather than thinking how can Tanks be better tanks. That's the honest issue with tanks right now they are so focused on being a better DPS and put a greater strain on the healers when they should be more focused on mitigating damage as much as possible and trusting their DPS to be enough for the challenge.

I would rather find a way for SE to create ways to add benefits for proper tanking rather than making them a DPS that can take hits and hold hate well.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Airget

Honestly, I find the issue with this is you are focusing on a Tank being a better DPS rather than thinking how can Tanks be better tanks. That's the honest issue with tanks right now they are so focused on being a better DPS and put a greater strain on the healers when they should be more focused on mitigating damage as much as possible and trusting their DPS to be enough for the challenge.

I would rather find a way for SE to create ways to add benefits for proper tanking rather than making them a DPS that can take hits and hold hate well.

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Well that wouldn't be the case if SE didn't make tanking more and more simplified with every patch and have DPS optimization be one of the few things to focus on anymore. Especially considering the DPS for tanks is pretty meh compared to other MMO's so to feel remotely powerfull you have to do this

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Airget

I would rather find a way for SE to create ways to add benefits for proper tanking rather than making them a DPS that can take hits and hold hate well.

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So you'd rather they throw out the basis of tanking in this game and starting over from scratch? Because that's what it would take to do that.

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Originally Posted by Aniya_Estlihn

Personally, I don't know many DRKs who do want Low Blow back unless it retains its old potency and they restore the trait that accompanied it.

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If that's the case with most DRKs, I'd have to agree with you that it's not so important in the grand scheme of things. For me, I use my stuns a lot in Dungeons and the occasional Raid, like Rabanastre for example.

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Originally Posted by Airget

I would rather find a way for SE to create ways to add benefits for proper tanking rather than making them a DPS that can take hits and hold hate well.

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I agree to a point. Obviously, I like to be able to "pull my own weight" and do respectable DPS, but I definitely do not want to be pigeonholed into the role of nothing more than a meat shield/stone wall.

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Originally Posted by Kaonis

I still don't understand why VIT can't be our main stat again. It was a good fix they should have gone with. It's always 1 step forward, then backflip to where we started with the dev team.

I was hoping for changes this patch, but looks like this plus all the other lack luster changes to tanks means I was right to move on from tanking.

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That would still do nothing for our dependence on STR melds. Even at .45 AP per STR, it still vastly outpaces DHit, Crit, Tenacity, and Det, leaving the highest offensive values solely to pentamelds.



Personally, I'd rather just circumvent that issue in particular. Each accessory can only hold x amount of primary stat. Full stop. No cheesing via VIT melds on non-VIT accessories. No obligatory STR melds on VIT accessories.

Fending accessories give both STR and VIT, and again generate AP from both STR and VIT, such that they get the current eHP bonus per item level on the right side but also the same % growth to output over right side item level that everyone else gets. Done.

If Yoshida Uncensored reveals the reasons and ways behind how SE does balance changes, I’ll buy it. I REALLY need to know how the devs and Yoshida think when balancing jobs because at least we can find the reasoning behind all these “needed/unneeded” changes.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Airget

Honestly, I find the issue with this is you are focusing on a Tank being a better DPS rather than thinking how can Tanks be better tanks.

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This change doesn't effect any DPS mechanics, beside having an additional slot in our accessories.
You said yourself that tanks have to hold hate. Most tanks who can't even do that, also didn't meld STR in their accessories.

DPS wise, there almost no change (except for DRK, this job NEEDS a buff).

Like I mentioned in the OP, I just focus on this accessory matter, no mitigation issues touched.

My suggested change would eliminate the issue tanks not melding STR,
thus having problem with hate, and give better player more options for melding.

Also, 'upgrading' your accessories would actually become an option!
No 'urgh, I just get 1 STR for 10 iLvl and I lose Det for SkS, not worth' anymore.
Savage drops get weight!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Snarky_Sunseeker

Step 1: Leave tanks alone and stop trying to "balance" them.

Step 2: Give WAR and DRK their previously baked-in stuns back.

Step 3: Force Devs to actually spend the same amount of time maining tank jobs that we have so they better understand the changes they make.

You're welcome. ^^

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Step 1: Why leave this topic alone? SE admitted that they have problems solving this issue. They didn't like HW change, it was just a band-aid®.

Step 2: No way this is gonna work. I know it's strange that PLD kept their GCD stun (maybe because 'unique'?), but you can't give all tanks their stun back PLUS role stun.

Step 3: Agreed! The preliminary patch notes show that they don't know anything about tanks.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

Because if you die all other main stats are reduced. Dex, Mind, Str. They kept VIT so you could still survive big hits and AOE. If Tanks main stat was Vit, they'd be able to do full damage in the current system if they died.

If the Dev's changed the system so that Tanks would get a Vit Down on death, they'd die to tank busters.

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Again I don't understand that. They could make weakness be a simple % damage debuff. Problem solved.

They just need to create a new main stat for tanks and end of the story, being tie to str will bring us this problems forever.