4.2 healer adjustments

patch notes: https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...6a00adb9181007

http://puu.sh/za2Sx/590ac3ecb4.png

My thoughts...
Divine Benison - not sure how I feel about this. I was always able to generate a lilly when needed with the 100% proc rate, and now using it will take no thought/planning. But I guess it will be better for clutch situations.

Excog - Seems decent enough. Probably more a buff for non-savage/extreme content, where tanks seldom fall below 50% hp.

Spear - More crit buff, more DPS buffing overall. Hopefully 4.2 raid healing requirements are high enough to keep all healers viable.
Earthly Star - Finally.

All in all the adjustments are minor and more QoL than changes in power -- I think, overall, showing that the healers are pretty balanced at the moment. Hope everyone enjoys Sigmascape and/or any other goals you might have for 4.2.

DB is nice but yeah, I wasn’t expecting that either. More it being locked to 1 Lily or some means to gererate a lily in the likes of O4S when everyone is already topped.

It’s a good change tho IMO and makes Benison significantly more dependable

Divine Benision change is definitly good.
Because having to cast an extra uneedeed cure to generate a lily if you didn't have one was boring.
Besides, to generate lily, your target need HP to restore. If they didn't, you couldn't proc.

There could be situation like that where you couldn't generate a lily to use Divine Benision.
Every others WHM oGCD consume lilies but don't need to have one to use so...

Otherwise, Spear to 30s is good. Never understood why it was at 20s like the other.

The DB change is great. Now you can use it pre-pull every pull in dungeons. It was just a nuisance to have to get a lily.

That said, I can't believe they didn't look at Secret of the Lily II, again. How can they think that's okay?

Divine Benison is basically stoneskin AGAIN. .

You can basically remove the lily gauge from your UI now. There's no reason to ever look at it.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

Divine Benison is basically stoneskin AGAIN. .

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Stoneskin off the GCD, anyway. Stoneskin's downfall before was a cast time.

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Originally Posted by inhaledcorn

Stoneskin off the GCD, anyway. Stoneskin's downfall before was a cast time.

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cast time, MP cost, MP efficiency....

But it was on demand so you could cheese certain mechanics (Twintania, Leviathan, Ramuh, etc)

The Secret of the Lily is that it was Plenary Indulgence on SE's part and never truly needed.

However comma free Benisons for all! Get splashed on!

Really like the change to Divine Benison. Often found myself in situations when I had to needlessly heal someone for a fraction of what Cure I restores just to get a Lily for the tankbuster... and then found that either my regen, the fairy, or something else topped of the target a fraction of a second before Cure I went through, so the MP ended up wasted anyway, and the tank without the extra shield on top of the Scholar's. This will definitely help in such a, and many, many more situations. As was said before, MP-free instant shield is nice, and it's HP dependent so it scales well with tank LP (which will be the most likely target).

What I wonder now is. Is it completely decoupled from the Lily-system, or will it still blow them uselessly? Or does it function like any other oGC now, with a CD reduction depending on how many Lilies you got? That would be sweet. Just hope they don't stealth-Nerf it in some way...

That's certainly the closest to nothing update we could have got. I expected samll changes like 15 sec CS or Esuna out of cross-class actions and got even less. The DB change is hilarious, as it is now, you can use it every 30 sec if you want when there's nothing better to use it on it the next 30 sec.
It went from "pain to use" to "too good for its own sake".

The really sad part of this is when you notice that any of those changes directly concern healers themselves.

10 more seconds on Spear?! Soon my TRUE power shall be unleashed! Mwahahahahaaaaaaa!!!!!

Its actually pretty sweet, and the DB change is great - I love my bubble shield! :)

Or how to make lilies even more pointless. I hope they review those at some point.

I agree with Tridus. The DB change is great but ignoring Secret of the Lily II is mind boggling.

At least WHMs now have a reliable shield.

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Originally Posted by VanilleFang

I agree with Tridus. The DB change is great but ignoring Secret of the Lily II is mind boggling.

At least WHMs now have a reliable shield.

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Yeah, Secret of the Lily II really is dumb as it is. Hopefully we will get something there in the near future.

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Originally Posted by Yuyuka3

Yeah, Secret of the Lily II really is dumb as it is. Hopefully we will get something there in the near future.

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Who thought putting a minor recast time reduction behind two instances of RNG was a good idea? =_=

If I get a crit on my Cure/II spell I have a 20% chance to reduce my Assize/Asylum recast by 5 seconds! Look forward to it fam!

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Originally Posted by Yuyuka3

What I wonder now is. Is it completely decoupled from the Lily-system, or will it still blow them uselessly? Or does it function like any other oGC now, with a CD reduction depending on how many Lilies you got? That would be sweet. Just hope they don't stealth-Nerf it in some way...

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DB already had the CD reduction depending on lilies, same as the other abilities. It still has that. Only change is that you can now use it with zero lilies.

DB change is awesome news. Shield on demand without having to waste MP on cures is going to be welcome. Though this does make the Lily system even more useless than it already is. AST changes are fine. Extra 10s buff to Spear is nice. Still leveling SCH, but changes to Excog seems nice. Looking forward to playing it at 70. Icing on the cake :)

When they said "Increasing the other healers' usability in general" I honestly thought it would be some unnecessary thing about role actions, so I actually got more than I was expecting.

The Divine Benison change is definitely the highlight, as boring as it is, it's still kind of a big deal. It's a pretty meaty free shield on tanks, so it's nice to see that WHM has very reliable and almost on-demand mitigation for tank busters now.

Real talk, tho, it's refreshing that the Healer forums can finally sit back in peace and eat pop-corn while looking at the fire in the DPS and Tanks forums LOL

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Originally Posted by Fernosaur

Real talk, tho, it's refreshing that the Healer forums can finally sit back in peace and eat pop-corn while looking at the fire in the DPS and Tanks forums LOL

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Or the MSQ roulette mess. We're a little bastion of tranquility. :)

Still can't generate lilies outside of worthless cures, Cdr is still boring and useless with how cooldowns are planned, and we still have a terrible trait. At least DB was changed.

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Originally Posted by EaMett

Or how to make lilies even more pointless. I hope they review those at some point.

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Judging from how the other jobs have been treated, a relatively major mechanics overhaul won't be considered for a routine content patch but would have to wait till the next expansion.

I do find it interesting how much of this discussion is centering around lillies with a side of PI. Not that I disagree with most of what's said but... eh, the job is strong enough on its own as long as healing requirements are high, so I've been happy enough to mostly ignore lillies and treat PI as a little extra bonus healing.

I think it's just an artifact of how unnecessary and tacked on Lillies are, and seeing their relevance getting chipped away more and more.

As for Excog, yep. That's pretty much exactly what we've been asking for.

I'm definitely happy with the healer changes over all.

I especially love the change to Excogitation. I can be more liberal with it's use. Slap an Adlo on the tank and an Excog and not have to worry about healing them while I DPS my little heart out. XD

I don't tend to play the other healers as often, but the few times I have done end game WHM content it seems like I usually have the Lily to spare to use Divine Benison at my leisure, but I imagine that if I did play it more I would have a great appreciation for how useful the skill not being tied to Lilies could be. Astrologian I play a bit more frequently than WHM so I'm fairly excited for those changes as well. Longer Crit is okay in my book. Earthly Star is a pure QoL check that I personally don't find necessary, but nothing wrong with making it easier to use for those that would appreciate it.

Honestly, at this point I'd be very surprised if Lilies don't receive HEAVY adjustments or flat out get replaced come next expansion (the devs aren't going to make major mechanical changes before then). Lilies are the one "class defining mechanic" that basically do nothing to...you know...define the play style of the class at it's getting more silly as time goes on.

With excog: I agree that for high end content this change is probably not necessary if you plan the use of the ability right. That said, it will be nice for more casual content likes dungeons if you get like a panic-y PLD who clemency spams for hear of dropping below 50% or tanks doing smaller, less damaging pulls.

The time upgrade to Spear was nice. It's nice to have all the damage buffs on the same duration now. And the AoE placement marker for Earthly Star is a welcome improvement. Not really sure why it wasn't this way before considering all the other healer placed mechanics display their true range.

Still hoping they eventually take a look at role skills. The healer role skills never feel like you're making trade offs between your choices....you're just picking whatever counters the mechanics of the given fight (Pick Esuna for fight with cleanses, pick Surecast for a fight with noteworthy knock backs, etc). It would be nice if the choices were at least not so obvious.

I blinked at the change to Divine Benison. Certainly wasn't expecting that! It makes the ability a lot more predictable, which is a Good Thing™. I'm happy for my max level brothers and sisters. :D

Well they know we hate or couldn't care less about the lilies by now... hopefully that means some love when it comes time to plan which classes get an uplift for 5.0. Especially since there's no reason to pay attention to the flower counter now.

WHM is fine but I feel like SE tried to tack on a fancy new thing because everyone had to get one. I'm not smart enough to think of a good replacement but invisible power from CDR isn't really that great from the average player's perspective. I KNOW it's good and cool. But I don't feel it when I play.

Happy with the SCH and AST QOL stuff. They're little changes I wanted to see and I'm glad they made it in. Now, if only Eos and Selene were better about doing what I want them to do when I tell them to do it...

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Originally Posted by Tridus

Or the MSQ roulette mess. We're a little bastion of tranquility. :)

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Jesus, that's true. I won't lie, that change does perplex me, but we'll see how it plays out... hopefully any newbie that gets into the game has at least a friend that can help them get through that unsynced :(

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

Judging from how the other jobs have been treated, a relatively major mechanics overhaul won't be considered for a routine content patch but would have to wait till the next expansion.

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I wouldn't be so sure about this. Just look at the rework WAR got on this patch. You can argue it's a bunch of potency changes and all, but the change to its playstyle and huge shift in how its buffs and CDs work is definitely huge. There might still be some hope that Secret of the Lilly I and II get reworked into at least having a different effect.

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Originally Posted by Kacho_Nacho

I blinked at the change to Divine Benison. Certainly wasn't expecting that! It makes the ability a lot more predictable, which is a Good Thing™. I'm happy for my max level brothers and sisters. :D

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I thought the same thing lol. I still don't have SB, so capped at 60 but fully aware of how often it was asked for on here for Benison to have the lily cost removed... and they did it! I have to admit that there is an air of tranquility in the healer community right now. None of these updates seem unwelcome, and more like giving each healer some candy.

So glad Excog wont allow you to waste an Aetherflow Charge anymore. I would have preferred to be able to manually activate it by using the skill anytime after its been applied but this current change is still miles above losing the healing potency altogether.

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Originally Posted by NobleWinter

So glad Excog wont allow you to waste an Aetherflow Charge anymore. I would have preferred to be able to manually activate it by using the skill anytime after its been applied but this current change is still miles above losing the healing potency altogether.

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That is not really true. If your target is at full health when it expires, it is still wasted. Basically just served as insurance in that situation, which is still value in my book. If it heals for half normal value, you still kind of wasted part of the value. Who ever healed needlessly still wasted their action. I don’t think it changes that much. A tiny buff, I guess.

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Originally Posted by Braven

That is not really true. If your target is at full health when it expires, it is still wasted. Basically just served as insurance in that situation, which is still value in my book. If it heals for half normal value, you still kind of wasted part of the value. Who ever healed needlessly still wasted their action. I don’t think it changes that much. A tiny buff, I guess.

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It's more than a tiny buff- there are many cases where I've put it on a tank and Eos's Embraces alone were enough to keep the tank hovering just above the trigger %, wasting the stack once it timed out. If it had simply applied the heal on time-out instead I wouldn't have had to Lustrate a few seconds later. There are arguments to be made for "predict incoming damage better" but most cases have been so close I've gotten legit frustrated because it was only a single % or two away. At that point just give me the darn heal when it's timer runs out!

It has a 45 second duration. If EOS can keep the tank above 50% HP without any additional healing outside of free regens like embrace, it was probably a really easy fight that required no healing and you would have oGld heals to spare even with the waste.

I think the more common cause is other healers continuing to actively heal, even though thry don’t need to. I guess it might matter if you cast it during dungeon downtime. Then it might go off 10 seconds into battle and be wasted.

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Originally Posted by Braven

It has a 45 second duration. If EOS can keep the tank above 50% HP without any additional healing outside of free regens like embrace, it was probably a really easy fight that required no healing and you would have oGld heals to spare even with the waste.

I think the more common cause is other healers continuing to actively heal, even though thry don’t need to. I guess it might matter if you cast it during dungeon downtime. Then it might go off 10 seconds into battle and be wasted.

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Yeah, it feels like a change that is going to really only be reflected in 4-man content. I'll welcome the change while I'm running Expert roulette. It'll allow me to coddle the tank less and DPS more.

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Originally Posted by Tridus

DB already had the CD reduction depending on lilies, same as the other abilities. It still has that. Only change is that you can now use it with zero lilies.

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Did I miss a patch note? Oo
Because last I knew, DB just wasted all your Lilies without return. That's why everyone always wanted SE to change it so it only takes one. I also never noticed it being back up earlier when cast with three Lilies. Mind posting your source, Please?

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Originally Posted by Yuyuka3

Did I miss a patch note? Oo
Because last I knew, DB just wasted all your Lilies without return. That's why everyone always wanted SE to change it so it only takes one. I also never noticed it being back up earlier when cast with three Lilies. Mind posting your source, Please?

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It still eats your lilies if you have any (just like all of the oGlds of WHM like assize, tetra, asylum). The change is that you don’t need any lillies to use it. Basically it just now works just like all the others. It is very nice since since you no longer have to time a cure spell right before DB. Particularly nice for pre-pull when you can’t generste a lily. Lily system is still underwhelming though.

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Originally Posted by Braven

It still eats your lilies if you have any (just like all of the oGlds of WHM like assize, tetra, asylum). The change is that you don’t need any lillies to use it. Basically it just now works just like all the others. It is very nice since since you no longer have to time a cure spell right before DB. Particularly nice for pre-pull when you can’t generste a lily. Lily system is still underwhelming though.

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I got that from the notes. I'm just baffled because I could swear that the Lilies past the one you need to use DB are wasted and don't lower CD.

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Originally Posted by Yuyuka3

Did I miss a patch note? Oo
Because last I knew, DB just wasted all your Lilies without return. That's why everyone always wanted SE to change it so it only takes one. I also never noticed it being back up earlier when cast with three Lilies. Mind posting your source, Please?

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Not at all. :) Here's a screenshot of Secret of the Lily's tooltip, taken just now (so in 4.1). Note that DB is included explicitly in the cooldown reduction effect.

http://www.hiredgoons.ca/images/benison41.jpg

The reason we wanted it changed is because you can use the others with 0 lilies and it didn't matter, so you could do DB then Tetra. But if you do it the other way around (Tetra then DB), it wouldn't work. This change is nice because it removes that nuisance, but if you do have lilies, you get DB back faster, which is okay with me. :)

Perfectly happy with the DB change. I'm also of the opinion that lilies aren't necessarily 'useless', just entirely forgettable (there's a big difference). Nobody can say the potential for shaving 20% off X, Y or Z OGCD is a bad thing - it's just... Well, with or without it, we still have all bases covered. Let's hold onto hope that freeing up said system and opening it to further critique (which it no doubt will get) will lead to the system getting some attention next time. For now, I'll take the DB change and happily run with it.