Disapointed about DRK "changes"

So now that the patch is out, we get 80sec on delirium and 7sec duration on TBN,
don't get me wrong I am happy about these change.

Someone (chrono-rising) posted very lengthy explainations on what could be done to fix or eleviate DRK dps and if I remember right (if I'm wrong he'll surely jump in to correct me) he said that a reduction on delirium would have been enough to give us the few percent we missed. Considering PLD nerf I hope we'll get closer in term of dps. (if we are within 2-3% it'd be nice)

Now, what I was really hoping for was a new mechanic to make us more appealing.
I was not necerly hoping for an AoE shield but just something.

This is very frustrating because there is nothing that makes DRK stands out compared to other tanks.
We don't have better mitigation
We won't have (probly not) better dps
We won't have any proper utility
We have the worst tankburster survivor skill (Like Olmgang but we also need heal after)

So I won't go as far as saying "why would we be brought in a party", but it is just frustrating that WAR and PLD can do everything I do AND more. (fine war can't heal/shield someone else on a regular basis but shielding someone for 10% of your max health once every 15sec hardly has any value, PLD heal's can save the day much more at this point)

With Sole Surivor being utterly useless, I had hope the skill would have been modified into something cool. Same goes for Dark Passenger whose cost hasn't been changed yet again (I mean... how hard can it be to reduce the mana cost of that skill, perhaps we're all retards and Japanese figured out how to use that skill I don't know)


I'm still happy with the change, but I don't understand why WAR keep receiving so much attention when they clearly don't need it.

I happy they made some adjustments but honestly I am overall dissatisfied and here we are waiting on 4.3 for any real change

at this point its pretty much confirmed for 5.0 for any big changes.

If any DRK is interested, I have free tickets for Mt. Ordeals.

Preliminary patch notes are out and already they fucked WAR AND DRK over... DRK is still going to be boring and difficult to play because you are better off with having a PLD or WAR, WAR got nerfed because of Berserk changes which Berserk was fine along with Maim they were before and people were only complaining about how Inner Release and Unchained were forced to share a recast timer, PLD Shield Swipe and Holy Spirit was fine it's Sword Oath is the sorce of their DPS which requires a rework... Interject now applying silence more quickly is fine but it needs to do damage along with Low Blow and PLD Shield bash is too situational to use and is better as an oGCD cooldown, they don't even know how to balance all of the tanks now... meaning they are still working with PS3 limitations...

They had one job...

The only thing i feel bad about are the longer queue times dps players will meet, since there will be less tanks going for it.

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Originally Posted by Nedkel

They had one job...

The only thing i feel bad about are the longer queue times dps players will meet, since there will be less tanks going for it.

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I actually feel sorry for the MNKs that got good buffs for 4.2 now... they are now going to get a bit more use but DPS queues are still going to be mess because no one wants to play a crappy tank that brings no damage or utility... Good job Yoshi-P... you killed any hope of good tank balance everyone had for 4.2 patch...

Traiting blood weapon would fix dark knight Woes, delirium on its own will never be enough at 8 seconds. They could make this better by making blood weapon last for 16 extra seconds like blood price, but I doubt that will happen.

Some fast changes they could make that would help before 4.2:

Increasing Dark Passenger to 160 potency and/or halving its mp cost.
Decreasing Dark Arts to 2000 mana per cast
Increasing Bloodspiller by 20 potency in a vacuum
Lowering the cooldown on blood weapon by 5 to 10 seconds.

The changes were in the right direction for dark, there just need to be more.

I have to agree. This patch for tanks was really bad. It like I had hoped Dark Knight was getting a buff. Not a side upgrade. Sorry decreasing CD and increasing a single spell duration is not a buff. MCH even got it worse because they been needing a buff but nope. They got a nerf. Even more so is how new players are going be screwed over in 4.2 with MQS roulette change. Dark Knight I think needs Scourge and Dark Dance back. That will give us more dps and more survivability. Would say maybe bump Scrouge dot to 60 Potency

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Originally Posted by DemonicNeko

I have to agree. This patch for tanks was really bad. It like I had hoped Dark Knight was getting a buff. Not a side upgrade. Sorry decreasing CD and increasing a single spell duration is not a buff. MCH even got it worse because they been needing a buff but nope. They got a nerf. Even more so is how new players are going be screwed over in 4.2 with MQS roulette change. Dark Knight I think needs Scourge and Dark Dance back. That will give us more dps and more survivability. Would say maybe bump Scrouge dot to 60 Potency

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Yeah the BLN feels more like a fix than an upgrade. The CD upgrade can be a buff but it's not a very good one compared to what was needed. I don't regret rejoining but I will say this patch has me to a sour start with all these weird changes. Maybe I should try monk again with that nice perfect balance.

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Originally Posted by Akor

at this point its pretty much confirmed for 5.0 for any big changes.

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Hard Slash's potency increased from 150 to 155?

is it me or does DRK feel like it an unfinished class? HW the class was a mess. Like they did not know what they really wanted it to be. As well as to afraid of making a WoW Death Knight. While SB they gotten a bit more into focus but it feels incomplete. Where it has some clunky aspect to it. Maybe it just me still trying to master the class.

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Originally Posted by DemonicNeko

is it me or does DRK feel like it an unfinished class? HW the class was a mess. Like they did not know what they really wanted it to be. As well as to afraid of making a WoW Death Knight. While SB they gotten a bit more into focus but it feels incomplete. Where it has some clunky aspect to it. Maybe it just me still trying to master the class.

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imo the DRK from Heavensward felt more complete than it is now. It was focused around continually balancing against the bad side of Darkside, which was something that Fray taught you, while using the power of it to great effect. Dark Knights were THE anti-magic tanks and just had more to work with in general like a very good dot, shadowskin and reprisal, non-nerfed blood price and a useful dark passenger. They took so much away from the Dark Knight and we barely got anything back.

Paladins even completely swept us away with their ability to be more reliable and easy against magic mitigation now that they can block it (while we have to dark arts it to even get the full effect)

What abilities they didn't remove they instead butchered to being completely useless compared to what they were (Dark Passenger, blood price) it's like someone at the Dev team really really hates Dark knights. We have less utility, less damage, less mitigation. We are just flat out the worst tank and while it's certainly possible to still tank as a DRK it's absolutely glaring how much the DRK has been wounded going from Heavensward into Stormblood. We don't even get our most important ability until max level. That's just bad design.

I remember when people said DRK were the most complicated tank in Heavensward too, but so enjoyable to play. It was almost a badge of honor to be considered a really good DRK when it wasn't even that hard. How far we have fallen, how much we have lost since then. I miss Heavensward DRK. It's brainless now, and bad compared to what the other two tanks have to offer as well. RIP.

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Originally Posted by TheCount

imo the DRK from Heavensward felt more complete than it is now. It was focused around continually balancing against the bad side of Darkside, which was something that Fray taught you, while using the power of it to great effect.

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ok I see what you are saying. Yeah it does feel like we been pretty much gutted. Which I do not know why. Yes we had a ton of tools to use and it might been over whelming for new players but I really feel the game should have a tier system. New players friendly classes, intermediate classes, and expect classes. So like the new player classes are classes that have a low learning an low mastering. Yet will be on part with intermediate class base level. Intermediate base level will be good but good players can push the class to do great things. While the expert class will high pretty much a high skill cap. Which if you just go into it unprepared. You will do terrible dps/tank/healing.

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Originally Posted by DemonicNeko

ok I see what you are saying. Yeah it does feel like we been pretty much gutted. Which I do not know why. Yes we had a ton of tools to use and it might been over whelming for new players but I really feel the game should have a tier system. New players friendly classes, intermediate classes, and expect classes. So like the new player classes are classes that have a low learning an low mastering. Yet will be on part with intermediate class base level. Intermediate base level will be good but good players can push the class to do great things. While the expert class will high pretty much a high skill cap. Which if you just go into it unprepared. You will do terrible dps/tank/healing.

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Yeah DRK used to be that, sorta, it wasn't that bad to learn really and people most exaggerated the complexity of it imo. Right now it feels like SE has a very low opinion of their tank players and are trying to make every Tank role as simple as possible to play, which is not fun.

*Looks at all of the WAR buff increases on a job that didn't need them*
*Looks at the 3rd worst (meaning worst) job getting next to nothing*


Wait... seriously?

I genuinely don't understand what is going on any more.

So, basically, if you want to raid, change your job is what I'm hearing.

There's a community disconnect that isn't being heard after pages upon pages of pleas from more members than I've ever seen before in 5 years. You need more tanks in the game but you discourage folks from being tanks. With the new Warrior upgrades, you've made the worst tank job even worse and further discouraged these players. Please don't release another tank job until you balance these three out, it's really hurting the community.

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Originally Posted by Veritas-Ancora

*Looks at all of the WAR buff increases on a job that didn't need them*
*Looks at the 3rd worst (meaning worst) job getting next to nothing*


Wait... seriously?

I genuinely don't understand what is going on any more.

So, basically, change your job or quit the game is what I'm hearing.

You need more tanks in the game but you discourage folks from being tanks.

With the new Warrior upgrades, you've made the worst tank job even worse. Please don't release another tank job until you balance these three out.

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I cannot stress enough we don't know if the warrior changes are anything more than simplifying their rotation. There are just a number of changes to track I hope we can all withhold judgement until someone can figure it out.

I just think starting a whose buffs are better war isn't going to help anyone atm. Though direct hitting 6 moves in a row sounds beautiful, I'm not sure how that works out with their effective potency being lowered across the board, the increases in potency with a 10% damage bonus in general does not equal out to the 20% damage buff they had previously.

I agree though, there is a serious disconnect between what the players and what the developers are hearing.

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Originally Posted by Chrono_Rising

I cannot stress enough we don't know if the warrior changes are anything more than simplifying their rotation. There are just a number of changes to track I hope we can all withhold judgement until someone can figure it out.

I just think starting a whose buffs are better war isn't going to help anyone atm. Though direct hitting 6 moves in a row sounds beautiful, I'm not sure how that works out with their effective potency being lowered across the board, the increases in potency with a 10% damage bonus in general does not equal out to the 20% damage buff they had previously.

I agree though, there is a serious disconnect between what the players and what the developers are hearing.

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Agree with the devs not hearing us. Any major way to get them to listen? Cause it seems the forums are not working. Beside calling a class a joke like Paladin in HW. I not sure how we can get our voices heard.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen..._4.2_tanks.jpg

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Originally Posted by DemonicNeko

Agree with the devs not hearing us. Any major way to get them to listen? Cause it seems the forums are not working. Beside calling a class a joke like Paladin in HW. I not sure how we can get our voices heard.

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I'm all for noise, lets just not beat ourselves with that noise. This could be a very good thing for warriors, don't break a good thing. If its bad by all means call for changes. Dark we know the changes are too small to be meaningful. They need more than whats being given, but lets not compare it to war if we don't even know if what happened there was a good thing is all I'm saying.

Dark Knight needs more, it is definately behind paladin even with its nerf. There is no reason for that. That is the injustice here, not what happened to warrior.

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Originally Posted by Chrono_Rising

I'm all for noise, lets just not beat ourselves with that noise. This could be a very good thing for warriors, don't break a good thing. If its bad by all means call for changes. Dark we know the changes are too small to be meaningful. They need more than whats being given, but lets not compare it to war if we don't even know if what happened there was a good thing is all I'm saying.

Dark Knight needs more, it is definately behind paladin even with its nerf. There is no reason for that. That is the injustice here, not what happened to warrior.

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I was more talking about Dark Knights. I think the changes to berserk looks great. Good lord I wish I had a button that instantly gives me 100% chance to do crit and direct damage at the same time. I think this makes up for storm eye nerf. Specially when you pop that and fell cleave.