Blue Mage (BLU) as a Tank - Concept Pitch

Hello everyone! I love Blue Mages, and I love working out designs for things, and as a result for the last 6 months or so, I have been slowly putting together a simple design document for how I think Blue Mages could be implemented into Final Fantasy XIV as a tanking class.

While I appreciate that people may wish to see Blue Mage appear as some other role, I would like to say this has just been a fun thought exercise for me! I hope even if you feel that way, you can enjoy reading the document and seeing how I think it could fit in the game as a tank.

Here is the link to a google document, as it's too long to fit in this post!

You can edit your post to by-pass the limit :) .

Skimmed it, and I love it! Always been a proponent of BLU as a tank. Gonna save your doc for posterity.

Skimmed the doc and thought it looked really similar to a post I saw on reddit awhile ago which I bookmarked for future reading that I never did get to as I really liked where it was going and it was a solid idea then as it is now.

I don't have a reddit account otherwise I'd have said so there, but this is really really good.

Yeah, the reddit post was me in the past. I posted this again on there and it sunk like a stone. That's reddit for you! And thanks for the positive feedback!

I'm reading and I'll comment as I read to not forget anything

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An important note about this pitch is that there are no concrete numbers included - attempting to balance this all here and now would be a Sisyphean task! I ask that you suspend any disbelief and assume that the numbers are correctly placed to make BLU comparable to other tanks at all levels of play.

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This is very good, perhaps I did reply something like this in your older post or it was a few other players, but many players put potency everwhere when in reality they have no clue how it would interact (unless they're especially good at computing), simply putting "low med high" potency is a smart choice

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weapon choice

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good explaination, I don't like the weapon choice but I think your reasons are valid and sounds and you did consider a few things like PLD or Beastmaster potential weapon overrlap

Regarding the blunt damage, imo a wipe would do slashing damage. It doesn't cause bruises, it slices up your skin just not as deeply as a blade. It's basically a long range rasor.

side note: You should organise chapters and core ideas with underline a bit more. It just feels like a wall of text with spaces every 3 lines.

For instance when you describe their gauge, it's just two lines lost in the text. (you should also put some visual)

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Unlike other casters, they don't have a cast time associated with their magical abilities. As such their spells cannot be interrupted by attacks. They'd be pretty poor tanks if that were the case!

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PLD are immune to interruptions, you can make that a basic traits at lv 18 before they enter their first potential dungeon.

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Because of the way the current gear system works, they would have to share gear with tanks, and their spells would be scaled off their STR stat. This could be done by providing a trait that swaps INT and STR. A split in tank gear could be introduced that has INT instead of STR, perhaps with DRK switching to INT scaling.

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No need for a trait honestly, (I mean you could for the fantasy) but no one really cared when the healers dps spells started scaling out from Mind. Did you care? I surely didn't.
Also, if you do a trait that swap their STR for INT then does it mean you don't care about their AA damage? If you want the wipe to do nearly 0 physical damage then it's fine but if you want the AA to actually matter, then you run into some contradiction there. Just make spells scales from STR, end of the story (and that's honestly not something interesting to read)

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While many skills are named after Blue Magic that has appeared in the rest of the series, for balance reasons (and we all know that Blue Mages have been absolutely broken in the past), they may be fairly different to how they have appeared before. I’ve still tried to keep within the spirit of the original skill, for instance Rippler doesn’t swap status effects as it did in Final Fantasy VI, but it does provide enhancements to certain statuses. Some skills appear as buffs or debuffs instead of active abilities as they did before.

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I can't stress how important keeping in mind your tank has to be balanced with the 3 others. You can't give the BLU something only them can do if it makes anything trivial. (Imaginate Living Dead, Ohlmgang and Invincible don't exist, you can't give that to the BLU)

Side note: I'm half way through and I have 0 clue about how your Blue Mage is played btw

All I know is that he uses mana, has token and tank stances with two locked skills behind each.

I really like how you made learn something actually balanced and interesting.

Overall,
The idea is good, you need to explain more about your blue points, I still have no clue on how this tank actually plays out. beside the basic combo(it's a caster, why do you want combo anyway, wouldn't it be nice to have a combo loss tank?).

The organisation of your text is very poor you swap from gamemechanic to lore to quest to stance to specific skills.
You should really try to reorganise and make the core information (notably the gameplay) stand out a little.
I tend to finish all my reading but trust me when I say, many people won't finish reading your text because of the poor organisation which is sad because you clearly putted a lot of thought into it

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Originally Posted by locusts

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While I appreciate that people may wish to see Blue Mage appear as some other role, I would like to say this has just been a fun thought exercise for me! I hope even if you feel that way, you can enjoy reading the document and seeing how I think it could fit in the game as a tank.

Here is the link to a google document, as it's too long to fit in this post!

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Wow you put a lot of effort into this and it has very strong points. The only real problem I see is the Blue Tokens and the process of obtaining skills.... I think one of the most interesting parts with BLU was the way the skills were set. Learning skills and if the same mob uses a different skill it replaces the old does not sit well. One thing I loved about the old Blue in FFXI was the way you had Blu points and adjusted your stats based on those traits. Combinations were my favorite to learn and adapt. The chance of learning would be increased based on gear not just by attack experience alone. While the ability to learn within a certain time limit sounds promising I think it would make it too easy. For the most part your idea has strong points and I love the Lore, yet somehow I just don't see it as a tank type. For example if you were to start it at a particular advance level you would have to have had some spirit already learned take Adamantoise stance, I would rather learn it than have it given. Behemoth Stance hmmm so it would be given from the crystal rather than fighting one? Maybe having to do old Fates would be the way to go. Like Locking horns, or the giant turtle the wipes most from HW. Don't get me wrong you have very good points, I just think it would make more of a support type than a tank.

As for the weapon.... well never really seen a tank with a wip before. Even Quistis was not a tank in FFVIII, and while they may get attention, at start int he long run it would not have the same effect as inflicting heavy damage to maintain enmity. I mean what hurts more? A slash from a whip? or a slash from a Greatsword? I see wips more like flying bugs, yeah they grab attention , but is more because they are annoying.

It seems prevalent on BLU concepts to use whips so it being an option as a weapon nor taking from beastmaster is of little surprise (To me, using a monsters' ability or making a monster do something really falls on the same field). However I will give props on trying to have this mage balance out the synergy meta and considering it as a blunt tank (but then the whip might just change/evolve to a flail/morning star, imo)


The learning mechanic makes it a very active tank, this along with Rippler can see some serious mitigation, which in turn seems balanced due to your defensive stance offering no passive mitigation. To "extrapolate" Seems like a very active baby from a WAR and SMN.
* With Learning giving additional defense from a particular skill you decide to learn, it really sounds like a Semi-Active Inner Beast.
* With Moon Flute, it seems very similar to DWT Ruin3+Deathflare.


I do think tho that Rippler should fall in a similar cool down like Blood Price from DRK, which is more of a short cool down than medium. But otherwise pretty good.

While I can appreciate people wanting something similar to the system for FFXI BLUs, it simply just wouldn't work for FFXIV. By having swappable skills, there will always be a meta of skills that are "essential", and if you have to grind to get those skills, why would a group choose to take a Blue Mage, who perhaps needs time and aid to get the "correct" skill set up, when they could swap to a different tank? By imposing these limitations on Blue Mages and Blue Mages only, you effectively limit their player base and usability to only the most dedicated players. And at that point, what's the point in having them in the game?

That's why I chose to have the skills be obtained in job quests, rather than grinding in the world. That way, narratively speaking, you still get the experience of going out and getting the skills from these monsters, but from a gameplay mechanic, they are on parity with the other jobs without needing excessive amounts of extra work.

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Originally Posted by locusts

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Your approach indeed fits the mold of how FFXIV generally plays, so anyone asking or reminiscing on FFXI version is not really looking at the design points you used.

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Originally Posted by locusts

That's why I chose to have the skills be obtained in job quests, rather than grinding in the world. That way, narratively speaking, you still get the experience of going out and getting the skills from these monsters, but from a gameplay mechanic, they are on parity with the other jobs without needing excessive amounts of extra work.

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This is pretty much the only viable solution unless SE install a new system where you can customize you character beyond the cross role system. (A bit like Talents in WoW for exemple) or change their look. Basically some "skill glamour".
I really loved your idea of cooking :p

Hah yeah, I love the quirkiness of cooking. Quina had it in FFIX obviously, but it's also a little reference to FFVIII in that it pops up as the skill "Devour" in game. Also a little bit of a shout out to Dungeon Meshi, in that those quests are meant to be some goofy fun!

Skill Glamours would be an interesting way of attempting to implement a replacement system, although that may be too training on resources to implement in terms of cost vs. reward.

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Originally Posted by Mahrze

Your approach indeed fits the mold of how FFXIV generally plays, so anyone asking or reminiscing on FFXI version is not really looking at the design points you used.

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It's more the way that it is portrait. I did read it and only offered a quick overview of my perspective.

True we all miss the Blu from FFXI , however it's more of the challenge and joy we got from it. It was challenging to tank as a BLU on FFXI, however it was able to be done to some extend. ( Kepp in mind it was do to trait and skill system combinations) New generation of players want a trophy for trying, they can get it, however earning it means more to the person that knows he deserves it. Blu should retain at least some kind of challenge. Perhaps adding a new type of role, Advance classes where it may be more complex for us challenge seekers would be fun. Unlike normal classes have more benefits that normal, gear only craft able by them with added bonus otehr wise sold as normal gear. ect, ect

I could go trough every point if you like, however I am at work and use forums as a time killer or study time between jobs. To sum it up, It's has potential, just that our perspectives clash and there is a reason why mages usually don't tank directly. ( Sum summons so they don't count and even then they summon a tank type )