A tank's lament

So, I'm a huge fan of tanking. It's my preferred role in most MMOs, and I'm especially fond of the "life steal/punishment" variant of tanking that rewards aggression and overwhelming odds in order to claw back additional health and/or class resources.

But every guide for tanking or forum discussion or even mentor advice in the Novice Network sounds like a DPS guide, in which the "tank" is just a DPS with better armour who has designated aggro and leans on their healer to keep them up. Where staying in tank stance for anything more than the opening pull is frowned upon, burning those precious tanking resources on mitigation instead of damage dealing (Outside of tank busters) is a sin before the twelve and insult to your healer. Furthermore this doesn't seem to be an isolated opinion but the "minimum standard" expected by PUGs in higher end content like extremes.

How much of a difference does this "Dedicated main-tank DPS" really make to total group DPS in 8-man, non-progression content? Does it really matter that much outside of bleeding edge progression, where a few percent might make or break a run?

I ask because I've been tanking on and off since ARR launch, yet the same cycle repeats. I reach a level of confidence where I try get in on current tier of relevant raid content (Not savage! - Just extreme)... and promptly get kicked out and insulted for not DPSing enough as main tank (Prompting me to lose all confidence in tanking ability and go play something else for several more months); and to be clear this is "not enough", not "not at all".

I lament, because it's a weirdest situation, I hear DPS complaining all the time about the bad queue times, yet tanks who want to tank are actively driven away.

You have to understand a few things;

There is a minimum expectations from tanks when doing endgame. Depending on group some are more demanding than others.

Example: Tanks not knowing how to use Shirk for example, not using cool downs, and rotations. Being under geared is a mayor No No for some endgame players so yes it can get annoying so having a reliable group that can teach you based on their needs will require you to be flexible. Don;t take it personal, it's more of a end game gamer thing.

Tanks can do ~75% the DPS of actual DPS jobs, which is a pretty big contribution. Enmity and mitigation are incredibly easy in this game, and because of how the fights are designed you don't need consistent high mitigation so normal cooldowns can cover most situations. If you're sitting in tank stance you're losing a lot of DPS in exchange for only a small reduction to damage taken, and you're probably not changing how the healers have to play at all. This game's design has rewarded high tank DPS since 2.0 (even if we were too bad to realise it back then), and I wouldn't expect it to change anytime soon.

tbh it just sounds like you're been reading online too much. Majority of us don't care what the tank is doing so long as mobs aren't killing dps and healers. If you're going from what you see on the forums it's a vocal minority (much as they try to convince everyone otherwise). In savage and higher end game stuff it's a different standard, but in just normal stuff no one actually cares. XD

In short, no it's not required outside of the bleeding edge progression and even there it will most likely not matter that much in most cases.

First, healer dps isnt counted by the devil when designing encounter (altough I have doubt about the veracity of this statement for OS4 and ultimate, I assume that for the hardest fight they include some heal dps in their calculation).
So even if you stay in tank stance the whole fight, any skilled healer will compensate some of your loss. (however in most case they won't be able to compensate enough)
Y. P said that the the development count tank dps but the "baseline" dps under tank stance. Which means that unless you do very low dps, you will always reach this criteria.

Now, the true reasons why it actually matter.
~phase skipping: altough it is not the cause for all bosses, you can usually split bosses into 2 categories. The hp triggered and timed encounter.
The hp triggered will basically split the boss into phases that are triggered by the boss hp. Which means that the faster you kill him the less mechanics you see.an example would be Shinryu p1. If you dps enough you can skip many mechanic. 1 high tank dps can push those last bit.
The timed encounter is the opposite, the boss just go through his phases and mechanic on a timer. So killing him faster doesn't make you skip more than the very last bit (because he died before he could) an example would be susanno. This boss is entirely scripted and will always do the same stuff no matter your dps.

This is the first reason, second reason is death.
When someone dies, usually a dps, they loose 25% of their core stats for 2min which result in roughly 25% dps loss.
Unfortunately, these happen all the time, especially in casual content like extreme where the average players isn't really good. Then since it's extreme, dps might be bad (I've seen some 2k Sam) , and you end up in a situation where unfortunately your extra dps might be needed because tank and healer will have to compensate for that SAM who died twice or the BLM who keep loosing enochian.

So in short, no: unless you do OS4 or ultimate, boss enrage are large enough as long as you have OK dps who dont die.
Long answer : yes, it is needed because people like to skip phases and in extreme too many do tend to spend more time tanking the ground than dpsing the boss.

Now I'm waiting for all those dps advocate tank saying that it's all about dps.

If you want you can p.m me and we would do a boss together so I can see how you tank.

But as the above said, in normal content people don't really care so I find really odd that you've been harassed that much. I can recall a single extreme where someone blamed the tank for missing dps.

It makes a big difference.

And there's very little else to be doing, mechanically, when tanking in this game.

If you're looking for engaging active mitigation beyond CD pacing, this game just isn't the place for it.

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Originally Posted by RyuujinZERO

I ask because I've been tanking on and off since ARR launch, yet the same cycle repeats. I reach a level of confidence where I try get in on current tier of relevant raid content (Not savage! - Just extreme)... and promptly get kicked out and insulted for not DPSing enough as main tank (Prompting me to lose all confidence in tanking ability and go play something else for several more months); and to be clear this is "not enough", not "not at all".

I lament, because it's a weirdest situation, I hear DPS complaining all the time about the bad queue times, yet tanks who want to tank are actively driven away.

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Report them and they will get banned for it.
You cant even mention the bad dps, because that is looked by gm's as a parser harassment, it gets more attention than bots. Let these red heated brains use a break from the game.

Find a balance. If you never use your tank stance, you'll never hold aggro unless you're playing with really bad DPS, and remember TANKING comes first. Ensure that your enmity is solid, especially when playing with classes like RDM, who have high burst DPS and can really creep up on you. Once you see your enmity is sealed, you can do whatever you like from there.

Generally what I do, is Power slash combo everything twice, spam unleash 3-4 times. Go nuts after that~ This is not always sufficient though, I have played with some very strong DPS that melt things before I even get to power slash, and they are about to yank the mobs from me, so I change the order a bit and unleash first to give me some breathing room, then power slash combo, and go nuts.

There will come a point in the battle(s) where you can comfortably ride your DPS combo(in my case, HS->SyS-SE) for quite a while.

No it isn't needed but depending on the class you play (especially warrior) staying in tank stance and simply "tanking" is a major loss in damage contribution with not enough benefits to justify it. If all 4 dps got a damage cut that tanks get from doing that you wouldn't beat a single enrage timer in the current content. It is theoretically possible to clear most if not all fights in game (outside of ultimate I'd imagine) with tanks in tank stance doing aggro combos the whole time and healers doing nothing but healing provided you have absolutely stellar dps that never mess anything up. However, you could argue that sitting in tank stance spamming an aggro combo and tossing out an occasional heal in scripted fights is far from stellar performance so that creates a huge gap in effort input which isn't fair to half the group..

It isn't necessary in dungeons and casual content but it certainly helps things go smoother and quicker. If you need it for blind progression to be safe that's one thing, but generally speaking tank stance and aggro combo spam is even less necessary than the extra damage so you may as well do some more damage. If you're entering extreme primals and above people have standards that you need to adapt to because the devs have admitted time and time again players figure out better ways to tackle content than they do. If you don't wish to adapt you're always free to make your own group and lay down the groundwork that you're a tank who tanks. Just don't expect too much success in finding people okay with that that can clear the content.

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Originally Posted by Sylvain

Now I'm waiting for all those dps advocate tank saying that it's all about dps.

If you want you can p.m me and we would do a boss together so I can see how you tank.

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I'm curious as to what you mean by this.

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Originally Posted by RyuujinZERO

I ask because I've been tanking on and off since ARR launch, yet the same cycle repeats. I reach a level of confidence where I try get in on current tier of relevant raid content (Not savage! - Just extreme)... and promptly get kicked out and insulted for not DPSing enough as main tank (Prompting me to lose all confidence in tanking ability and go play something else for several more months); and to be clear this is "not enough", not "not at all".

I lament, because it's a weirdest situation, I hear DPS complaining all the time about the bad queue times, yet tanks who want to tank are actively driven away.

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I don't know what parties you join. Either you join an actual 'high DPS' party (you don't see them anymore), you didn't read their description, e.g. '75+ fflogs' OR your DPS actually IS so low it could burn some eyes.

I can't give a precise advice without knowing A. the content you ran/tried B. what rotation you used and C. if you did mechanics right.

Yet, here some basic tips:

Check your healers gear: Are they well-equiped, even better than you? If your answer is 'yes', better stay tank stance, this healer can pull more DPS than you can, probably. If you never see them using a DPS skill tho, don't hesitate to switch stances.

rDPS is what counts: If your healers always top the party, the limit break gauge will fill very slow. So if you compensate by getting hit more/harder, you actually help filling the gauge. Just don't overdo it and use your cooldowns if things start to get heavy. Know your limits!

ALWAYS have Shirk ready in 8-man raids. If there no need to tank swap in the next 2 to 3 min - and you are OT - use shirk on MT. If you are MT and OT vokes, use shirk on them. Don't force them to use enmity combos. Get out of tank stance asap.

Avoid using enmity combo too often. You might need it after shield lob/tomahawk/unmend pull, esp. when you don't have a NIN. No need if you have one using shadewalker. Only use it when DPS/healer 'aggro-creep' to yours. If OT gets close to yours, they should just shirk you, don't bother using enmity combo. If they don't, let them be MT, shirk them, go off stance.

I actually feels the game is DPS-centric. Exdeath for example has raid DPS requirement around 21000 something (based on guides). we had a fight that was so close that made me think that if i had stayed in tank stance the whole time I was tanking him we might not be able to kill him. So it is somehow true that it is all about DPS.
Before stepping into savage 4 I always stay in tank stance (even ex trials). Luckly no one has harassed me for that:) but now i am learning to drop grit after i get aggro and it is quite fun. I havent play any other mmorpg other than final fantasy so cant really comment on how the other games handling tanking classes

I've never seen tank kicked for low dps tbh, and trust me, I ran with some extreme cases. If you are kicked in non-savage content, there probably is other reason for that.

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Originally Posted by Nedkel

Report them and they will get banned for it.
You cant even mention the bad dps, because that is looked by gm's as a parser harassment, it gets more attention than bots. Let these red heated brains use a break from the game.

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It's not how it works. They can get warning or maybe even ban for insult, but that's it. You don't need exact numbers to see when someone is doing wrong rotation or not using all his skills. For all we know they might've just told him to use DPS combo instead of enmity one or stop sitting in tank stance.
Also, you can talk about bad DPS all you want. It's obvious when mobs die slower than usual and you are free to point it out in chat, as long as you don't insult others by doing it.

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Originally Posted by F_Maximillian

I'm curious as to what you mean by this.

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There are many tank who go Dps >> everything else and since I said it wasn't mandatory I would be quoted and said I was wrong.
I didn't happen tho xD

Also some people seem to have missed the line where he said he wasn't doing savage and restricted himself to extreme.
Any tank saying you need to tank in dps stance to meet those boss dps requirement spent too much time in savage and forgot what extreme actually is.

However, the poster didn't specify his rotation and I would like to add that regarding aggro management, you should not need more than 1 or 2 aggro combo to hold enmity if you stay in tank stance. I personally do 2 to be safe but once that is done I spam my regular dps rotation. I'd you in fact spam the aggro rotation then I would recommand changing this habit, aggro is like healing, once you have enough any extra is useless. Overheal is as relevant as over aggroing.

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Originally Posted by Terkhev

I've never seen tank kicked for low dps tbh, and trust me, I ran with some extreme cases. If you are kicked in non-savage content, there probably is other reason for that.


It's not how it works. They can get warning or maybe even ban for insult, but that's it. You don't need exact numbers to see when someone is doing wrong rotation or not using all his skills. For all we know they might've just told him to use DPS combo instead of enmity one or stop sitting in tank stance.
Also, you can talk about bad DPS all you want. It's obvious when mobs die slower than usual and you are free to point it out in chat, as long as you don't insult others by doing it.

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GM's doesnt care really, if someone is parsing or not because how would he know, they will go the easiest way and give him a warning or a ban.
Its still punishable offence.

If you are getting actively kicked regularly by unrelated random groups of people, you are doing something fundamentally very wrong.

Tanks don't get frequently kicked because they aren't doing 3k+ DPS. There is a LARGE range of 'good enough' damage. However, if you walk into an encounter and do some abysmally low amount of damage, then yes, you might get kicked. Looking at FF logs you can see (for example) Warrior shin damage ranges from 2k to 3k (10% and 90% range). If you walk in and do 2300 youre not going to be constantly kicked for your dps. If, however you walk in and do 1000, then yes, people might start kicking. You are doing HALF the damage of the lowest 10% of performing tanks. That puts you squarely in the flat out bad at your job category.

That's not elitists focusing on damage to much. That's more equivalent to 1 healer healing 90% of the damage in a fight and the other sitting on their bum. Just performing terribly badly. There is a point in which you just aren't carrying your own weight anymore.

Ive been playing MMOs for a very long time. Trust me when I tell you, if groups are REGULARLY kicking you, then you are doing something very, very wrong. You have to underperform to really horrendous levels for random people to constantly kick you purely on performance. The more common reason is bringing an attitude with you. If you are consistently getting kicked from random unrelated pug groups, the only common denominator is you.

Technically, you are dpsing all the time when you're a tank.
What you are expected to do at the very least, as a MT, even if you're not dropping your tank stance (let's be honest, it's not required that much if everyone in the party is performing well), is having a good rotation.

For example, how many paladin i see doing less dps than their healer because they totally don't use Requiescat and Holy Spirit.
That's a huge amount of damage lost.

Well, that's my opinion but, trying to do the rotation correctly is the very first goal (this way, you'll have a decent MT dps, and that'll be okay).

Being the MT doesn't mean to just spam the aggro combo. That's the idea.
Yes you hold it, once it's secured, you do you rotation and use your defensive cooldown when needeed.

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Originally Posted by Sylvain

Also some people seem to have missed the line where he said he wasn't doing savage and restricted himself to extreme.
Any tank saying you need to tank in dps stance to meet those boss dps requirement spent too much time in savage and forgot what extreme actually is.

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The argument for dps stance isn't that you need it to meet dps requirements, it's that there's just almost no reason at all to use tank stance.

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Originally Posted by Rasikko

If you never use your tank stance, you'll never hold aggro unless you're playing with really bad DPS

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That's not true at all.

What you have to understand is that the strictly tanking aspects of this game are not hard to do. Aggro is binary: Either you have aggro, or you don't, and if you're making good use of shirk with your co tank, then it's basically a non factor.

Mitigation is something you simply plan out over the course of a fight. Excess mitigation is wasted, so plan accordingly.

Positioning is usually the tricky part of a tank's responsibility, but good positioning ideas usually aren't too necessary in your average pf party.

On top of all this, a good tank can pump out nearly 70% of an actual dps's dps. 2 tanks pushing their own dps contributes a LOT to a party's overall raid dps.

Say it with me. EVERYONE contributes to dps in this game. Everyone. Not just dps. No one is exempt. If you're a good player, you should be trying to push your own dps.

Damage beats content. The more everyone is willing to contribute (yes, everyone - tanks, healers, and optimized DPS), the better it is for everyone, regardless of their role. Nobody has to struggle quite as much when content isn't going at a low-damage snail-pace. The quicker X dies, the less healing/tanking required and so-forth.

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even if you stay in tank stance the whole fight, any skilled healer will compensate some of your loss.

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A good tank will be able to judge a few things:
a) Is the Healer contributing DPS?
b) Are they able to maintain that while I leave Def-Stance?

If the answer to the above is Yes, then grab the emnity you need (which is surprisingly little these days) and then contribute DPS until you are required to swap back. If, on the other hand, a well-geared DPS-capable Healer is forced to go into more of a Healing-spam mode because you've swapped, it's typically not worth it. However, the word 'compensate' should never come into the equation. A DPS Healer is not compensating for DPS player or a Def-Stance Tank, for example. It's about finding a balance where the 'trinity' is not only functioning smoothly, but also pushing out as much damage as they possibly can in order to reach that finish line in as quick and efficient manner as possible.

Now, let's say you have 4x4K DPS, a Def-Only Tank and a Heal-Only Healer - compared against the same group with DPS contributing tanks & healers is astounding. However, there are obviously scenarios where it is not possible of feasible. There's no logical reason for a Tank to try punch out hawt-deeps if doing so is putting a strain on the Healer (and vice versa). Same can be said about eating mechanics or DPS stealing aggro. Nothing annoys me more than seeing geared/experienced DPS players eating mechanics or getting attention from mobs (be it over zealous play or a tank not paying attention) -- that shifts my attention (as a Healer) from pushing out extra damage and forcing me back to heal mode if more incoming damage is on the way, forces the tank to go back to pickup-duty, and often puts the DPS in a cautious position - everyone suffers.

Again, a well oiled trinity has a smoother road, for everyone, with overall damage being one of the foundations.

I view these kinds of threads with extreme skepticism. All the horrible stories of abuse these tanks/healers suffer for not pushing out dps is so far removed from anything I've actually seen in game. It more seems like using the forum to propagate their anti tank/healer dps agenda using fictitious, or at least greatly embellished, tales of misfortune than anything else.

Any good tanking guide out there will let you know that maintaining agro is top priority. The better guides out there will also let you know that you get so many tools to establish agro, that your top priority is also the easiest thing in groups for you to accomplish. Because of this, extensive guides will indeed focus on putting out more damage. It's what actually brings intricate, engaging gameplay into tanking.

I have witnessed tanks get harassed for staying in tank stance in normal duties, but that is about the extent of it. I got trolled one time, but that had nothing to do with my damage output. I do agree that it is odd that anyone would give this kind of grief to a tank, especially after sitting in the queue for a long time. But no one in any of the PUGs I've been in were dumb enough to actually kick the tank for such reasons. I definitely feel it is a role that requires a good set of armor. Both inside and outside the game.

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Originally Posted by RyuujinZERO

I ask because I've been tanking on and off since ARR launch, yet the same cycle repeats. I reach a level of confidence where I try get in on current tier of relevant raid content (Not savage! - Just extreme)... and promptly get kicked out and insulted for not DPSing enough as main tank (Prompting me to lose all confidence in tanking ability and go play something else for several more months); and to be clear this is "not enough", not "not at all".

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I find this hard to believe. I've tanked with with some awful co-tanks - ones in actual savage content, in most recent memory seeing ones in A11S doing less than 900 was a regular occurence and it was more common for people to stay silent than call them out. With the whole spook of getting banned for mentioning dps numbers, even when people do get called out it's in a "i don't wanna be that guy buuut" kinda way.

If you're getting kicked regularly you're doing something really, really wrong.

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Originally Posted by HoodRat

The argument for dps stance isn't that you need it to meet dps requirements, it's that there's just almost no reason at all to use tank stance.
That's not true at all.

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Which is also why i wish they'd actually buff it. Anyway going back to the topic.


If we talk about farmed or nearly down content where the group does everything relatively flawlessly, then yes I agree. Tank stance isn't especially useful once you've passed the progression stage.

However, I do not consider the extra damage worthwhile during early progression when everyone keep dying and when you don't necessarly recognize every tank buster.
20% less damage taken remove a lot of stress from healers when the fight isn't properly understood and people keep taking random damage. Since GCD is the most valuable thing for a healer, every GCD the tank stance free me is a GCD I can use to save someone's ass from a failed dodge.

For instance, I've just done Shinryu and unfortunately it was a fail. Healer died from a Spike+AoE fire combo and some dps were slow on dodging the next ark rhai, when the dragon's head came down the group wasn't in top shape and tank were at 60-70%. With a WHM with -25% less heal and nearly no MP and me as a SCH with no Ether left (yes, it was going bad don't worry), we started healing the heads. And see at this very moment, if the tanks had switched to Tank Stance and popped some mitigation, we wouldn't have had to shoot some heal to keep them alive while we were doing the heads, and doing so would have given us enough time to heal the two head that already started on not fully healed DPS.

This is a very nich exemple, but these kind of bad situation happen all the time when you learn a fight.
IMO, the extra dps these tank did had no value, we wipe and altough it wasn't entirely the Tanks fault, they could have made a terrible situation much less terrible.
They could have popped defensive CD to help us stabilise the situation, when the WHM died and the Dragons head came down, they could have started being more defensive, the PLD could have healed instead of doing more Holyshot when he had 15% left, yet they were still tunnel visionning their dps which ultimately leaded us to a wipe.


My point is that, unless the boss actually dies, the extra damage has no value. If you have a SAM with 6.5k dps but he keeps ignoring an add which makes the group wipe, your SAM dps is useless because he's not doing what he's suppose to. Perhaps I'm wrong, but for me the first goal of a MT (two tanks in Shin case) is to Survive while holding aggro. 20% permanent mitigation is not something that should be laughed at. I honestly cannot count the number of times tank died simply because they were in DPS stance and the heals couldn't heal them quick enough. (I've seen some tank die on the waterfall damage, like being at 30% when the waterfall is coming doesn't ring any bell)

So going back to the former poster, if everything is fine I would say do not hesitate to go DPS stance, afterall there's a point where enough mitigation is enough. On the other hand, you should never be shy to go back in tank stance if the situation is turns ill.

If you die because of a lack of mitigation (like, if being in tank stance would have actually saved you), you failed at your job.
The same holds for healers or dps, if I let someone die to push a last stoneIV, I failed as a healer, I will never be able to do enough dps to cover his death, same goes for a DPS who tries to push too hard sometime, no matter your dps, if you die you will never recover -25% less dps for 2min.
Worst, you might actually be absent for an important mechanic. (Like a Dragon Head on the MT in P3shin....)

And just quoting Anna saying that if you get constently banned because of "low dps", I'm sorry but (s)he's right.
I have NEVER seen a tank being kicked for low dps and I am myself not a top tier DPS DRK (but I've often had healers tell me I was a piece of cake to heal)
If you get regularely kicked for low dps or wathever, you are probably the faulty person in this story.



btw, you guys think he's still reading? he's done 0 replies. Almost feels like a troll post

I agree with everything a man above me wrote.

The main job as a tank is to tank, thats how the game design is, not other way around. Just because you could make the dungeon 30 seconds faster doesnt mean its worth risking a wipe by losing aggro or just failing at tanking the mobs and lose more than 30 seconds on respawning.
Not sure about warrior, but shield oath and Grit stance on DRK and PLD are essential in most activities to keep themselves alive. 20% dmg on a tank with 1k-2k will do no difference at all, but the saved MP and time on a healer side will do, as well as additional group of mobs on the pull.
The only place you should switch to offence stance is when you fight boss, which does not do too much damage to you and other party member, because surprise surprise, healer need to heal himself and others also, if the boss will pull out aoe and healer will need to use resources to heal everyone not only a tank, then you are risking a wipe when trying to fight boss with a wet noodle stance when healer will not be able to heal you in time.
I am using tank stance all the time, with few exception of the bosses i know its safe to do more damage, never been blamed for damage.
My job is to keep aggro and make it safe, not to do dmg, if you want to do dmg switch to dps.
Maybe some savage and extreme content will require a high dps from everyone to get pass it, but 95% of other duties does not really push a tank to offensive stance.

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Originally Posted by Rhais

I view these kinds of threads with extreme skepticism. All the horrible stories of abuse these tanks/healers suffer for not pushing out dps is so far removed from anything I've actually seen in game. It more seems like using the forum to propagate their anti tank/healer dps agenda using fictitious, or at least greatly embellished, tales of misfortune than anything else.

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Yup. Every thread about getting 'constantly kicked' from parties or banned 'for no reason' by GMs are usually 1 sided, exaggerated, leave out important details, or straight up lies. The best case (if you can call it that) are people just so out of touch they are borderline delusional and honestly believe they did nothing wrong while to any outsider its plainly obvious. These things just don't happen regularly, but the posts make it sound like it's an epidemic. Reasonable people don't have these issues. Its an issue with the player, not the community 99/100.

First of all, It'd be good to know what kind of party did you join as you first attempt tanking. I started to tank a bit as omega weekly cap got removed. Although I'm super familiar with the fights as DPS, I still join practice party from the beginning because I'm not used to tanking. Before I joined I even relearned the timeline and planned all my CDs. I ended up clearing 1st to first half of 4th floor quite easily as both MT and ST in few attempts. I feel like the main reason you got booted is not about dps. Like even a DPS isn't dpsing properly is not likely to get booted unless he dies way too much. Even it is, the party isn't worth staying anyway because they are just as bad if not worse than you if they need your extra dps for the extreme clear/farm this late since the release.

As for how much dps loss it is in tank stance, let's say tank stance boost your by around 10%~15% and tank stance is a 20% loss. This results in around 40% dps difference between full tank stance and full dps stance. Considering a tank doing 2.5k~3.5k dps, that's a 700~1k dps for whole raid from a single player (it's less for DRK, around 25%). Note that for current raid tier dps requirement is 19k~24k, which can result in 3~5% enrage. It is not a good idea to leave the dps loss to DPS to deal with especially in prog, not to mention there are many like-minded healer. The extra ~250 for each DPS to push can be from requiring good rotation and uptime to nearly flawless execution, which is not happening unless DPS take their job seriously and have learned the fight well. But again this is for savage raid. For normal raid/extreme it should not matter, nor it should in daily roulette. While it doesn't matter, dropping tank stance can surely make things go faster if you make sure to hold aggro and don't die. Plus it can be more fun. In FFXIV there are very few things require tank stance to survive, like you either pop sheltron/thrill/RI/TBN with another CD, or simply use your invuln. Important thing about dropping tank stance though is be sure to make the most value out of your CDs, as this can make healer's job easier. You should not drop it unprepared and ask healer to shield you all the time. For example, O1S you should pop rampart right after boss first AA so you mitigate 2 wyrm tail + twin bolt. Same thing goes to O2S's tank buster and tank swap. On O3S you might want to delay your CD for there's often aoe damage and AA after buster.

Interestingly though, things I've noticed after pugging a lot is that good tank not only do more damage but also often mitigate better than the tank who need tank stance. Same thing goes to healer, a good healer do damage and keep raid alive with bunch of MP left but bad ones are often out of MP with low damage output. I think Dungeon bosses are pretty good practice for tanking. Just try to mitigate with CD only and then dps as much as you can, you can't even die with no CD and tank stance for tank buster there.