And that why Y'shtola is me favorite character !

This was the best part from end story. God i love you Y'shtola ! 100% for me Lyse is the worst character.

http://i66.tinypic.com/15qdq42.jpg

Y'shtola is true Waifu. SB just wasnt the same for me.

I must agree with you OP.

Lyse truly is terrible.

Yeah, Y'shtola is definitely one of the more interesting Scions. It's a shame that she had to sit out in favour of Lyse.

Hopefully once Stormblood is over with we won't have to see Lyse ever again outside of rare appearances. I'd like to see more of Thancred, too.

Well for me mainly I think it's because she is a Miqo'te and well she still looks gorgeous outside of FFXIV

http://www.siliconera.com/wordpress/...7/06/017-1.jpg

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Originally Posted by Ageofwar

Well for me mainly I think it's because she is a Miqo'te and well she still looks gorgeous outside of FFXIV

http://www.siliconera.com/wordpress/...7/06/017-1.jpg

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Except for the bunny ears.

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Originally Posted by -Teria-

I must agree with you OP.

Lyse truly is terrible.

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Yeah Lyse was better as part of the comedy relief duo of Papalymo & Yda where she would say some dumb things and he'd insult her. They were used sparingly, so they didn't wore out their welcome.

I'am not a fan, it's one of the scion I like the less.
In Heavensward, she was becoming interesting with Matoya and all.
After in Stormblood, its appareance was stupide.
And, during the Warring Triad, I didn't like what she said to Unukalhai.
I need to find the passage, but I remember, she wasn't very respectful for what we did.

I did miss Y'shtola all of SB :( I hope we see more of her soon.

Urianger is still the best scion imo. Too bad he lost his sexy voice from 2.x

I can't like Y'shtola while dissing Lyse/Yda because a lot of the allure for me personally in Y'shtola is the times where her mask cracks and you see just how much she cares, that's also part of why I liked the storyline in Matoya's cave so much. If you say you like Y'shtola but at the same time you diss Lyse, you diss a big part of Y'shtola's character as was presented to us thus far. The two care a great deal about each other and after losing Papalymo, Lyse is all the more concerned about Y'shtola. Similarly Y'shtola's hellbent on not losing Lyse, hence why she came close to sacrificing herself for her.

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Originally Posted by SomeRandomHuman

Urianger is still the best scion imo. Too bad he lost his sexy voice from 2.x

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His voice had to go back to Balthier.

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Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

If you say you like Y'shtola but at the same time you diss Lyse, you diss a big part of Y'shtola's character as was presented to us thus far.

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Pretty much this. It's also good storytelling to give other characters time in the spotlight to evolve and branch out. While Lyse's characterization may have felt rushed (to be fair most of the MSQ did in general), she wouldn't have been able to grow unless she got a whole patch to herself. And honestly you can't even say she had the main focus since this felt more like an ensemble as did HW's crew. We'll get more Y'shtola love down the line since she is literally the poster girl for XIV so no worries there, other characters need development or they stagnate or did we really want Lyse to stay as the ditzy comedy relief even without her straight man?

I don't understand the hate for Lyse tbh. Up until HW, she was pretty much always told what to do and/or spent her days simply punched some bad guys. Papalymo was her friend, but also her mentor/teacher in a way. Not only is he no longer around, she was essentially thrust into leadership to free her homeland. She went from sidekick to leader. Does she say and do some dumb things? Yes, but that's good. Learning and growing is part of a character arc and a large part of this expansion is her character. In my opinion, this story would be boring as all hell if Lyse knew what to do and say in every situation. We don't need another character like that because the story is packed full of them.

Alphinaud got a lot of flak too, but his was a similar situation. He was young and extremely naive, he tried something out and it failed miserably, but look at how far he's come since then. He's learned from failures along the way. He had a smaller role in SB, but compared to ARR/HW, he's clearly a much more mature, collected individual.

I don't have anything against Y'sthola, but compared to Lyse and even Alphinaud, she hasn't had much of an arc at all. Let's not kid ourselves. In almost every way, she's still the exact same as she was in ARR. She got cool eye powers, sure, and we learn a bit about her through Matoya in HW, but again, she really hasn't had much of an arc.

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Originally Posted by Galaktica

I don't have anything against Y'sthola, but compared to Lyse and even Alphinaud, she hasn't had much of an arc at all. Let's not kid ourselves. In almost every way, she's still the exact same as she was in ARR. She got cool eye powers, sure, and we learn a bit about her through Matoya in HW, but again, she really hasn't had much of an arc.

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It's because Y'sthola is a catgirl and catgirls get automatic waifu points for being one.

As I say that, I don't really like Y'sthola myself. She kind of bores me and puts me to sleep because as you said, she hasn't really had an arc. She's like that character that's just... there. I can't really make an emotional connection with her because almost anything she really does, she does off screen; and what she does on screen is an occasional protect bubble and some witty remakes in dialogue. Do not mistake me though, this doesn't mean I hate her, I'm just saying that I fail to see why so many enjoy her.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

Yeah, Y'shtola is definitely one of the more interesting Scions. It's a shame that she had to sit out in favour of Lyse.

Hopefully once Stormblood is over with we won't have to see Lyse ever again outside of rare appearances. I'd like to see more of Thancred, too.

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If I could choose I'd rather see Lyse developed into a likable character. I mean it worked with freakin Alphinaud who was an annoying twerp in ARR but ended up being one of the best Scions with his development over HW.

Thancred? I don't know. I really like they guy but he easily has the most screentime. ARR was mainly about him, in HW he was the second Scion to return and even in SB he had more to do than Y'shtola. How about more Alisaie, Yugiri, or perhaps even a new person?

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Originally Posted by Balipu

-snip-

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It worked with Alphinaud since there were very real consequences that he needed to face as a result of his actions. Lyse, however, never truly undergoes any drastic pitfalls - even when she 'fails' everything works out perfectly for her. The narrative completely ignores the complete stupidity of her actions, too, such as having her invite someone blindly loyal to Lakshmi into the throne room of Ala Mhigo itself, leading to Lakshmi being summoned once again. Yet because the Warrior of Light is there to save the day there are no actual consequences - none of the visitors who placed their trust in Lyse end up getting Tempered, so yet again the stakes never truly feel high or meaningful.

...and even before that, Meffrid, Conrad and Papalymo all died purely to pave the way for Lyse to end up in a leadership position. I just don't see her ever becoming truly likable or interesting when her obvious flaws are completely ignored. Much like Minfilia, a lot of people simply want her to go away to make room for characters who have more depth.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

Yet because the Warrior of Light is there to save the day there are no actual consequences - none of the visitors who placed their trust in Lyse end up getting Tempered, so yet again the stakes never truly feel high or meaningful.

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The WOL... and Fordola.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

snip.

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Well the Lakshmi incident was pretty much the last thing that happened in the patch. And Alphi didn't become immediately likable after Ul'dah. Make no mistake I think the current Lyse is boring and her character arc looks as if it were ghost written by WoW devs, but I'm willing to give her time. At least she's willing to do stuff sometimes, unlike Minfilia.

I genuinely don't get the Lyse hate.

She's the WoL's dumb punch buddy who, like you, is just rolling with ludicrous circumstances and, also like you, is serving as a flashy (albeit more conservatively) dressed figurehead for the more levelheaded types to rally behind.

(don't worry about trying to change my mind here; it doesn't actually matter)

Anyway here's a good fanart of Shtola, who is also cool and good.

https://i.imgur.com/HxuHJu0.jpg

I would burn Eorzea to the ground for Y'shtola. Okay. Actually I would do that for free. Warrior of Light really just means "tamed mass murderer" after all. I could give a fig for the rest of the Scions or the city states. My biggest story complaint so far has been the lack of Y'shtola time. She seems to spend more time with Thancred, for which I believe he should die in a fire. We can use Krile for kindling.

What makes Y'shtola awesome is that she doesn't sugar coat things. She tells it exactly like it is. One of my favorite scenes of her is when she tells Merlwyb off for being a hypocrite after everyone had left the Command Room following the Leviathan incident.

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Originally Posted by Antonio_Xul

Yeah Lyse was better as part of the comedy relief duo of Papalymo & Yda where she would say some dumb things and he'd insult her. They were used sparingly, so they didn't wore out their welcome.

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I miss Papalymo...

More Y'shtola in Stormblood ! <3

It did not help they sort of hyped up Lyse and she really did not have much of a role in Stormblood and she came off as weak i think.
Y'shtola there is a reason why many (especially in japan) love her

The great thing about Lyse, at least from a writer's perspective, IS her imperfections.

Stormblood has been a series of learning experiences for her, and I for one am glad she didn't become an overnight "perfect" leader. She's still naive in her handling of things, still awkward about what to say in the moment (I actually like that she stammers, as opposed to say, Alphinaud who's more of a gifted speaker), and she's still a bit too trusting. But she does show signs of a good leader, even if not quite there yet.

I think back to when she first met Fordola and the Skulls, watching them kick a man while he's down. Naive impulse to help would've made her jump in, and maybe she could even take them all. But Meffrid stopped her and made her understand that doing so would make the situation worse. Another good example is both when she gave Fordola a sword and let her decide to just end it, or possibly keep living and perhaps do something right for once. It was a gamble, but one I'd have made as well.

The best example was the throne room, when she asked everyone in attendance if anyone wanted to claim the throne. Mind you, these are newly liberated people, wary of monarchy after their last "mad king" and all the harm he did. Seeing that no one wanted to just take the throne, and offering them a seat together there on the floor was, psychologically and diplomatically, genius. Sure, for the sake of plot, things didn't go well. But chalk it up to a learning experience. One of many to come, I'm sure.

The last thing I'd want to see is Lyse become another pre-Heavensward Alphinaud; someone who suddenly takes the lead and carries themselves like they have all the answers. Give me the stammering, imperfect, can't-even-tell-her-friends-are-joking, passionate, determined (yet not too serious), leader-in-training. That's far more interesting to see develop.

As for Y'shtola, I love how she can be both composed and calm, yet have the sharpest tongue of them all, and even still maintain a sense of humor. She's powerful and careful about it, but just passionate enough to take risks for the right reasons. She's very much the "healer" archetype, and a deadpan snarker at times, and certainly one of the most interesting ones. It's not hard to see why her characterization made her the representative for XIV in Dissidia (and not just based on being a fan favorite).

I didn't really appreciate Y'shtola until I saw her interactions with Matoya. Up until that point, she barely even HAD a personality. She was always calm, composed, and frankly boring; just another Scion. It wasn't until someone FINALLY made her lose her composure that she actually started to feel, well, like a human rather than a robot.

As for Lyse... Honestly, I think SE is trying to shoehorn her into a role that her character isn't well-suited for, but I applaud them for NOT making the square peg fit by radically changing her characterization. When she took off the mask, let down her hair, and put on a new outfit, I was afraid that she'd suddenly become a different person, but that wasn't the case; she was still the slightly dim, frequently silly person she'd been throughout ARR and HW. It's something of a mystery why everyone's grooming her to be the figurehead of the Resistance, and I think she's a bit perplexed by that herself; she was perfectly happy being a flunky, and now everyone expects her to be a role model.

It'd be a stretch to say that I like Lyse's character, but I certainly feel that she has MORE character than Y'shtola does!

Real Lyse talk: She's honestly at her best during the whole adventure-buddies thing with you and Alisaie around Othard, where the chemistry felt really natural and it clearly invoked a classic "adventuring party" feel, and then later in basically any scene involving Fordola where she's laying a perfect verbal smackdown (often as you're laying a more literal one.)

That said, a segment of quests with the WoL and Y'shtola traveling along would be absolutely welcome. She's handy for an infodump but there's more to be played upon.

Also, credit to her for bringing true dignity to catgirls.

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Originally Posted by Balipu

If I could choose I'd rather see Lyse developed into a likable character. I mean it worked with freakin Alphinaud who was an annoying twerp in ARR but ended up being one of the best Scions with his development over HW.

Thancred? I don't know. I really like they guy but he easily has the most screentime. ARR was mainly about him, in HW he was the second Scion to return and even in SB he had more to do than Y'shtola. How about more Alisaie, Yugiri, or perhaps even a new person?

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Lies, brat boy is still an annoying twerp.

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Originally Posted by Slevin_Impudicus

I would burn Eorzea to the ground for Y'shtola. Okay. Actually I would do that for free. Warrior of Light really just means "tamed mass murderer" after all. I could give a fig for the rest of the Scions or the city states. My biggest story complaint so far has been the lack of Y'shtola time. She seems to spend more time with Thancred, for which I believe he should die in a fire. We can use Krile for kindling.

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You say mass murderer, I read murder hobo.

It's not a coincidence that Alphinaud's likeability increased in direct proportion to the amount of time other people (Krile and Alisaie) spend dunking on him.

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Originally Posted by Slevin_Impudicus

I would burn Eorzea to the ground for Y'shtola. Okay. Actually I would do that for free. Warrior of Light really just means "tamed mass murderer" after all. I could give a fig for the rest of the Scions or the city states. My biggest story complaint so far has been the lack of Y'shtola time. She seems to spend more time with Thancred, for which I believe he should die in a fire. We can use Krile for kindling.

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Lucky for me, I don't mind having two partners of either sex, so I'd gladly spend time with both of them. =p

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Originally Posted by SomeRandomHuman

Urianger is still the best scion imo. Too bad he lost his sexy voice from 2.x

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Urianger best scion for sure. Mysterious, knowledgeable, a great and dangerous risk taker, always have some stuff ready or prepared for the wol/adventuring team of the scions and most importantly loved his true appearance and build up for the time of wol vs wod

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Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

If you say you like Y'shtola but at the same time you diss Lyse, you diss a big part of Y'shtola's character as was presented to us thus far. The two care a great deal about each other and after losing Papalymo, Lyse is all the more concerned about Y'shtola. Similarly Y'shtola's hellbent on not losing Lyse, hence why she came close to sacrificing herself for her.

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But Y'shtola hasn't been following me around for an entire expansion and being completely annoying.
So I can certainly like one while not liking the other.

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Originally Posted by Velox

What makes Y'shtola awesome is that she doesn't sugar coat things. She tells it exactly like it is. One of my favorite scenes of her is when she tells Merlwyb off for being a hypocrite after everyone had left the Command Room following the Leviathan incident.

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And strangely for me this was a scene where I disliked Ysthola. First its completely different to rule a whole country (especially one that still has so many problems after the fall of the moon) then being just part of a group that tries to go against primals. And second Ysthola is always quite fast to point out other characters flaws (and I did like her saying that in the OPs picture) but never truly give alternatives. I mean what exactly did the scions achieve about the primals right now? How did she help with anything like that? Yes Limsa was wrong to go against their contract but a different solution is also not simple. So it would be really nice if she has some solutions too if she calls out others.

I still like her more than Lyse but I also would have nothing against both of them not being much in the story. Even after losing her sight she still continues the same. Like others said she barely changes at all.

Sadly for me they kinda missed the chance to make Lyse into a greater character. I would be fine with having her as part of the main cast if she developed much more. And like Theodric pointed out, Alphinaud had to learn the hard way and grew as a character thanks to that. Yet most of the descisions are done by other people. Raubahn and the others lead the war and plan the strategies. M'naago was the one that motivated the rebels to continue fighting. It was the WoL that fought against the hard bosses and again it was Raubahn that saved Fordola from the masses while Lyse did not have any kind of speech that would help the situation. On top of that she somehow decided to invite everyone to the meeting, even those tempered..as a scion she should have known that you cant break tempering and thus if she wanted them to come too, she should have at least used some kind of system to check everyone for tempering. (The story does point out that you can see that) If it was not for WoL, Arenvald and Fordola, everyone would have been tempered. I really hope that this situation at least will have some consequences...even if it just means that she will stop trying to create an utopia..you cant just please everyone in a whole state.

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Originally Posted by Fredco191

I miss Papalymo...

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As do i he was my fav out of all of them :(