So since we're adding submarines...

Could the devs please address needing four(4) players present to craft a FC project? I believe there was a discussion to remove or lower this requirement. It would be a nice QoL adjustment for smaller FCs.

Yeah not sure if this will change any time soon, but I would suggest LS/PF I have a crafting LS where we help each other out regularly! :)

I wish they would remove this 4 person requirement. I tried shout in limsa, pf, asking random people, and still failed to get 4ppl. This requirement is stupid... People have to stand in a workshop...Not doing anything... Not a fun activity. no wonder people don't want to join pf for this.

They addressed it by saying it's a group project. Please enjoy the content together as a company or as a group of friends.

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Originally Posted by Canadane

They addressed it by saying it's a group project.

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You mean a project where one person throws random materials into a machine while the other three sit around/afk until it's done.

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Originally Posted by Nezerius

You mean a project where one person throws random materials into a machine while the other three sit around/afk until it's done.

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More than one person can add materials, I have FC members who are leveling turn in mats. (Albeit it is less efficient, it is something we do as a group)

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Originally Posted by MeridaQ

More than one person can add materials, I have FC members who are leveling turn in mats. (Albeit it is less efficient, it is something we do as a group)

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The last time I tried to add materials for exp, the exp gain seemed really minimal, almost not worth the effort, and how it makes it less efficient.

While I think they should scrap the group requirement entirely (giving people the option to do things as a group, instead of forcing it), a nice compromise would be removing the requirement on the simpler crafts, like the aetherial wheels.

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Originally Posted by MeridaQ

More than one person can add materials, I have FC members who are leveling turn in mats. (Albeit it is less efficient, it is something we do as a group)

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The last time we tried this, it said that the level of the char is to low to add the material.
You can only add material you can gather/craft yourself.
So for the submarines we probably need SB materials what makes chars below level 60 useless for turn ins and they can just afk and watch while others turn in.

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Originally Posted by Nezerius

You mean a project where one person throws random materials into a machine while the other three sit around/afk until it's done.

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This isn't the case for every fc. Certainly in mine more than just one person supplies everything.

But I admit it's annoying to have to get three other people to progress a craft. I hate bothering people when they want to do other things. I'd settle for a party of two.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

This isn't the case for every fc. Certainly in mine more than just one person supplies everything.

But I admit it's annoying to have to get three other people to progress a craft. I hate bothering people when they want to do other things. I'd settle for a party of two.

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Ive personaly resorted to paying people usely 250k wile i make housing glams.. lol

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Originally Posted by Penthea

This isn't the case for every fc. Certainly in mine more than just one person supplies everything.

But I admit it's annoying to have to get three other people to progress a craft. I hate bothering people when they want to do other things. I'd settle for a party of two.

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While I get that there's FCs out there that gather the supplies as a group, that doesn't mean that an actual light party is required to turn them in. You can just run into the company workshop and throw materials at the machine.
The complaint is about the requirement to progress through a craft, which is essentially just one person interacting with the console thing, and three others just standing around. There's no group interaction in these cutscenes.

They should either:
Remove the requirement, allowing players to go through the progress cutscenes regardless of the amount of people in the workshop -or-
Allow players to work on a craft in its entirety, without all those phases to progress through, then have a completion cutscene that requires a light party.

I don't mind the 4 people required for a company craft. It is, after all, a company craft. Can't have everything handed to us or it really wouldn't be a fun game.

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Originally Posted by crc0427

I don't mind the 4 people required for a company craft. It is, after all, a company craft. Can't have everything handed to us or it really wouldn't be a fun game.

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But there's nothing about the light party requirement to progress specifically that's actually a group activity. It is one person pressing some buttons at the console while everyone else stands around. They don't even have to be in your FC. Either make that part interactive in some way or get rid of the requirement. It's asinine that I have to round up 3 people to just come stand in the workshop while I press the buttons because only one person needs to actually do anything.

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Originally Posted by crc0427

I don't mind the 4 people required for a company craft. It is, after all, a company craft. Can't have everything handed to us or it really wouldn't be a fun game.

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Except the only part of those company crafts that require a light party, are the cutscenes to progress from phase to phase. There's literally no group interaction in those cutscenes, it's just four characters standing around, looking at a miniature in a globe that changes slightly.

Its not that hard to find 3 people to sit around in a small room while you toll at a terminal to make your airship/submarine. Yes there's a lull in active times and sometimes it can be challenging. That being said its a FC activity that dosen't stipulate everyone's in the same FC meaning its a group activity not a solo activity. If your in a 1 or 2 person FC that's the price you pay, sometimes pick your demons or they will pick you.

I feel that changing this in would kinda be in the opposite direction of the 4.2 changes to housing. The annoyance/difficulty/pain of needing 4 people is an incentive to get more people into your fc so that it's easier to find some people to hang out for the time to craft.

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Originally Posted by Driavna

This need to stay with the new rules. Not only that but also should require that the other three players are from your FC as well.

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yup, i'm okay with this.

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Originally Posted by Nezerius

Except the only part of those company crafts that require a light party, are the cutscenes to progress from phase to phase. There's literally no group interaction in those cutscenes, it's just four characters standing around, looking at a miniature in a globe that changes slightly.

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It's not like it takes a long time. I built Carby house in less than 10 minutes. They can AFK go get a drink, get a snack, get that must needed BIO, play with their dog/cat/bird/alligator, or craft things themselves.

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Originally Posted by Wintersandman

It's not like it takes a long time. I built Carby house in less than 10 minutes. They can AFK go get a drink, get a snack, get that must needed BIO, play with their dog/cat/bird/alligator, or craft things themselves.

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What's the point of it being a group activity when 3/4 of the group can just afk? This isn't about whether it's easy, hard, or how long it takes, it's about it being an unnecessary nuisance.
It's akin to SE adding a light party requirement to solo MSQ instances. It wouldn't be hard for players to just gather 3 random players, since they can just afk through it anyway, amirite?

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Originally Posted by Nezerius

What's the point of it being a group activity when 3/4 of the group can just afk? This isn't about whether it's easy, hard, or how long it takes, it's about it being an unnecessary nuisance.
It's akin to SE adding a light party requirement to solo MSQ instances. It wouldn't be hard for players to just gather 3 random players, since they can just afk through it anyway, amirite?

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I agree. I used to think it was something worthwhile to maintain the light party mantra but have since changed my mind. They also need to address while i'm at it the ability of having more than one active project going on at a time so that one person doesn't hold up others who would also like to used the crafting station.

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Originally Posted by Driavna

This need to stay with the new rules. Not only that but also should require that the other three players are from your FC as well.

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This actually makes a lot of sense. It's doubtful that the new 4 member minimum requirement to buy an FC house will be enforced beyond the initial purchase of the plot, which means people will easily be able to hire 3 random people to join their shell FC while they buy a house. While it's annoying for legit players, the requirement of 4 (FC) crafters to make anything in the workshop would disincentivize folks from buying/keeping shell FC houses, at least a little.

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Originally Posted by Beckett

This actually makes a lot of sense. It's doubtful that the new 4 member minimum requirement to buy an FC house will be enforced beyond the initial purchase of the plot, which means people will easily be able to hire 3 random people to join their shell FC while they buy a house. While it's annoying for legit players, the requirement of 4 (FC) crafters to make anything in the workshop would disincentivize folks from buying/keeping shell FC houses, at least a little.

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If they do something like this, then I want the other 3 people in the crafting party to be required to do something as well. Add a little minigame thing or just -something- that actually requires 4 people, not just 1 player and 3 afk bodies.

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Originally Posted by Driavna

This need to stay with the new rules. Not only that but also should require that the other three players are from your FC as well.

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Then if your FC friends are not online, you get locked out of progress. It creates an extra step of convincing random people to leave their FCs and temporarily join yours while they afk in your workshop. People might not want to do that if their own FC leaders aren't online at that time to invite them back home, locking them out of resources they need to use.

I think we need less arbitrary restrictions on this. It makes no more sense to require a light party for this than it would to water a garden or access your retainers. Diverts people from whatever they want to do in the game to make them stand in a room... stand and wait activity.

It's not really arbitrary though, four is the minimum number of people you need for fc stuff. Which likely based on the minimum number of people you need to field a complete light party. (WoW's is similar, except you need 5 people)
Removing it primarily, and pretty heavily, benefits the people who have shell FCs to buy extra houses with.

For others, keeping it there has the benefit (to SE) of encouraging people to grow their FCs so that getting four people is a non-issue. Either by building a group in core hours, getting heaps of members, or even merging smaller FCs.

Making it more interactive could make it more fun, but probably worth keeping in mind that it should influence the outcome which could be bad.

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Originally Posted by Driavna

This need to stay with the new rules. Not only that but also should require that the other three players are from your FC as well.

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Right, since we're following on your tangent, how about this. A full alliance of 24 level 70 omnicrafters (as in, all crafts level 70), in your FC and having been in your FC for 5 years straight? That strict enough for you?
Basically, I don't agree with tightening the rules. Keeping them as they are, OK, it's the status quo so I can take that. But actively making them stricter? That I can't get behind. I thankfully have enough active FC mates that if they were to make it stricter, I could still pull it off. But housing as is needs a revamp, and help more FCs access it, etc.

I am in an active, mid-size FC with a strong core of crafters. Getting four people into the workshop has been possible for us most of the time. If the requirements were any stricter, I think we'd be in trouble.

Every time we put out a call for crafters, the majority of our members who are online are:
Waiting on a timed node, Vista, fish etc.
In a dungeon queue
AFK
In an instance (the most common)

In other words, they are playing the game, and having to stop and come to the workshop is an inconvenience (fortunately one that they are willing to put up with).
Having to sit around AFK while someone feeds materials into the machine is not engaging or fun, which is why I'd like to see the four person requirement lifted.

Tightening the rules may stop some people with single-person FCs from crafting but it will also have the effect of making FC crafting a lot more tedious and difficult for FCs like ours. There is very little content for FCs to do together, let's not suck all the fun out of this.

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Originally Posted by Sairys

It's not really arbitrary though, four is the minimum number of people you need for fc stuff.

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Gardening = 1 person
Aether Wheel Stand = 1 person
Remodeling = 1 person
Diadem = 2 people to enter, and I believe the 2nd person can leave after you get there.
FC Crafting = Arbitrary 4 person minimum to progress. (And as stated, the other 3 people don't need to do a thing.) It is quite literally a 1 person activity, with an arbitrary added 3 to sit in the workshop.

Yes, you can pay people to sit there. Yes, you can "get more members." But all of that is beside the point that it's just an arbitrary slot filling mechanic. Not to mention a waste of 3 other peoples' time. It means nothing at all in regards to it being a FC activity.

And the shell FC argument is nonsense. Those people can just as easily pay 3 other random people to sit in their workshops. (In fact, they can just have the other people running their scheme sit in there.) Nothing is preventing that now.

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Originally Posted by Sairys

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I get the intent of why the restriction is in place, but in practice it's not encouraging collaboration and doesn't change anything about how people use FCs, they can just grab random people to advance to next stage of project. So it seems like a nuisance restriction with no upside.

I'd love to see the 4 person requirements removed. As others have said, most of the time it's just one person feeding things in and 3 others just idling there so even if they reduced them to like 2 people, most of the time there's still going to be one person just having to AFK there just for the sake of it. I also understand it was put in to try and promote doing things as a group, but in reality, that just doesn't happen.

While we're talking about workshops, it also takes approximately 90 mouse clicks to make one stage of a craft and that process really could do with being streamlined. Ideally let us hand in all stages at once (like how we hand over multiple items to an npc?), but even if it was just everything in one stage at a time it would help greatly.

I tend to make our company aetherial wheels one month supply at a time (so 60 wheels for 30 days) and with all the mouse clicks it takes literally hours (it starts off fast, but as time goes on you start misclicking and it slows right down). Sure you could break that into smaller weekly batches, but then you have to get 4 people in the room to AFK 4 times instead of one longer time :S

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Originally Posted by TarynH

Gardening = 1 person
Aether Wheel Stand = 1 person
Remodeling = 1 person
Diadem = 2 people to enter, and I believe the 2nd person can leave after you get there.
FC Crafting = Arbitrary 4 person minimum to progress. (And as stated, the other 3 people don't need to do a thing.) It is quite literally a 1 person activity, with an arbitrary added 3 to sit in the workshop.

Yes, you can pay people to sit there. Yes, you can "get more members."

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The comparison to gardening and remodeling is false equivalence given that it's also an activity available through private housing while airships are not. The aetherial wheel is minor enough that it's not actually super relevant. Which then makes Diadem an exception to the 4 person thing.

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Originally Posted by Rufalus

-snip-

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So make it more collaborative, with a reward if your fc does well in whatever that is and a detriment if they flub.

I think workshop really is in need of a desperate update. A lot of FC's shrunk in active people. Asking people to stand there and do nothing over and over is a pain. Sure it was OK when it was released but it's getting really old. I agree as in what was said already changing it down to 2 people being required instead of 4 would be sensible. Or change the projects so you can turn in the entire project and only need 4 people to complete it rather than each phase.

Make workshops fun again!

My FC is crippled. It was hard enough to get them online and subbed for my one Airship. Now I'm the only one because there is nothing worthwhile for them to do. (and money is tight for them) I'm unwilling to hunt for people, that sounds like trouble I don't want. I would so love this phase transition thing removed. It's already time-consuming to get the materials for these projects if I'm doing this alone then I best be able to progress it alone!

I'm already dreading the materials I need to get for Sub 1! I'm the only lvl 70 omnicrafter in my FC. ; ;

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Originally Posted by TitaniaZero

My FC is crippled. It was hard enough to get them online and subbed for my one Airship. Now I'm the only one because there is nothing worthwhile for them to do. (and money is tight for them) I'm unwilling to hunt for people, that sounds like trouble I don't want. I would so love this phase transition thing removed. It's already time-consuming to get the materials for these projects if I'm doing this alone then I best be able to progress it alone!

I'm already dreading the materials I need to get for Sub 1! I'm the only lvl 70 omnicrafter in my FC. ; ;

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it's a very annoying feature that honestly has no purpose in the game. The only purpose I see for this is getting your FC to work together but it doesn't even require the people to be in your FC. If anything having 4 crafters from your FC should give you an increased chance of reducing materials required, not being a requirement to craft.

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Originally Posted by Sairys

The comparison to gardening and remodeling is false equivalence given that it's also an activity available through private housing while airships are not. The aetherial wheel is minor enough that it's not actually super relevant. Which then makes Diadem an exception to the 4 person thing.

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If that's the exception, what's the rule? What exactly is the "fc stuff" that requires 4 people?

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Originally Posted by StouterTaru

If that's the exception, what's the rule? What exactly is the "fc stuff" that requires 4 people?

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There is no other FC thing that requires 4 people. IDK what he's going on about.

In terms of things that are exclusive to FCs, it only requires one person. You only need one person to buy and set up buffs. You only need one person to set up a house and its permissions. You only need one person to manage all the other aspects of an FC. But ultimately, there isn't much FC only content, and this ridiculous bandaged on requirement of "have 3 other people come to the workshop while one person presses the button" doesn't fix any of that.

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Originally Posted by StouterTaru

If that's the exception, what's the rule? What exactly is the "fc stuff" that requires 4 people?

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Originally Posted by Elamys

There is no other FC thing that requires 4 people. IDK what he's going on about.

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Besides the upcoming changes to purchasing Housing requirements for FC. New rules are going to affect sooo many people who have multiple houses. With that being said, there are certain things that require 2+ members and 4 members present. Diadem ( airship exploration missions ) . FC projects ( sucks you need for members present at workshop DoH ) to proceed on phases to complete projects.

FC projects requiring 4 people is what was being discussed, so using it as an example of why it should be the way it is doesn't work; it's the old "Brawndo has what plants crave" argument.

Diadem requires 2 people, but only 1 has to actually be in the FC.

Workshop projects require 4 people, but like diadem, only 1 has to actually be in the FC.

Creating an FC and purchasing a house for the FC from 4.2 will both require 4+ people, but only in the FC member list. They don't need to actually be online at the time and the actual registration purchase is only done by 1 person.

Activating actions/creating new actions via the aetherial wheel only takes 1 person.

Gardening only takes 1 person.

Decorating only takes 1 person.

So basically there are no 4 people FC activities or anything that actually requires 4 FC members to be online at the same time.

The 4 person requirement for workshop is just a major inconvenience with no real point as it doesn't require FCs to work together and I'd really love to see it removed. Going the other way and actually changing it to require 4 FC members would just cause more problems for people and also penalise legitimate small FCs.

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Originally Posted by Sairys

It's not really arbitrary though, four is the minimum number of people you need for fc stuff.

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What "fc stuff" are you thinking of?
Creating an FC in the first place requires four people - three of which can leave once the FC has been created.
Come 4.2 you will need four people in the FC to buy a house - but no need for the extra people to actually do anything except be part of the FC.

And then there is the workshop, which is the only actual FC activity that needs four people present that I know of. And here three of them just needs to stand around and twiddle their thumbs.

What if having others present at the time of using the items is a way for others to acknowledge that "hey we are a fc doing a fc project. persons 1, 2, and 3 personally took the time to gather/craft these materials, and we are here to make sure person 4 doesn't dump them into some project that persons 1-4 or our fc as a whole agreed upon." Maybe its like this so one person doesn't screw multiple people over who took the time to get the turn ins? Who knows maybe we should be thankful? I know I wouldn't appreciate someone just dumping lots of DS nuggets away for example.