Yeahhh, me again seeking advice (sorry!). With 4.2 coming soon, I'm really hyped for the new raids. Finally my dream of being "main healer" is going to coming true, and now I'm trying to prepare myself. I really want to improve my game play, and I really want to push myself in hopes of some day being good enough for ultimate.
How does one go about min-maxing as a healer? In my group one healer does the bulk of the healing, so before I would dps my butt off (as I was previously off-healer), but I wouldn't get to where some other asts were. I've tried comparing logs like I was told previously, but I don't understand fflogs. Every time I tried to understand what I was looking at, I just get a headache. I've even tried feeding myself enhanced buffs to see if that would get me up there, but it didn't seem to make a difference :x
How do you figure out what your BiS is? This is something I tried my hand at as well, but apparently I failed at it.
I want to learn and get better, but I'm lacking proper guidance. I tried figuring it out on my own, but regrettably... I haven't been able to. I've debated on asking some high ranked (?) healers on my world, but I chicken out and was hoping SOMEONE here could. I tried googling some answers, but I couldn't really find anything.
Even now I feel kinda dumb asking for help, but after a miserable attempt in ultimate with a very toxic individual, I just... I don't wanna feel like a "baddie" anymore when I used to feel like I was pretty decent.
Seeking Raiding advice
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01-20-2018, 10:51 AMLadyKairiSeeking Raiding advice
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01-20-2018, 11:51 AMera1NeWelcome to the healer role \o/Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyKairi
First of all, doing off and main heal is inefficent and if the other healer wants to get better at the game aswell, try to work as a team and heal together. You will probably get an lower dmg output yourself, but the raid dmg will be higher, because every healer has very strong ofgcd heals and those should be usually used before you consider using gcd heals.Quote:
How does one go about min-maxing as a healer? In my group one healer does the bulk of the healing, so before I would dps my butt off (as I was previously off-healer), but I wouldn't get to where some other asts were.
In general, you want to minimize the healing done with gcd and the healing itself. After all, the group doesn't need to be full or even at 80% all the time, if no raid dmg is coming in or the raid dmg is lower than the hp of the group. For instance, when the group has 16k hp and the next aoe attack does 12k, then thats absolutely fine. Try to remember the incoming dmg and the pattern of a fight. Next, trust your reggen and coordinate with your group, the mitigation skills every class has nowadays. On that note, make sure that you know what the other healers and tanks are capable of to be able to optimize better. If you really want to optimize everything, go into voice chat with your co-healer and discuss how you heal in specific fights. Write it down and then train :)
The number one rule for healers is ABC (=Always be casting). Maybe record your gameplay and look at how often you aren't casting an GCD. This is the most important and will make an huge difference. Of course this isn't as easy as some people believe, because some fights require you to place yourself perfectly and perfect ABC in general requires a decent amount of knowledge and techniques (likes slidecasting*). However, it is possible with training. Just try to improve and for instance select a target to heal during the broil, stone, malefic cast and not after. This may not sound like a lot, but you are wasting time, if you select a target after a spell and not during it. This is one of the most common mistake, i see healers do. They cast, then wait to decide what their next move is, then select the target and after that heal or do dmg.
*slidecasting: You can actually move during the end of an cast and this is known as slidecasting. Try it and see what timing you need to pull it off. I cant give you an number, since this depends on your ping. With this technique you can play mechanics and make sure you are not wasting one gcd doing nothing.You discuss with good healers and they get their information from theocrafters or simulators they created for that purpose or just straight up discuss with the theocrafters yourself. Understanding how the stats work helps a lot. For instance crit should be best for healers in 4.2. We will of couse only know for sure after the patch hits and then the theocrafters can test it, but it is pretty much the opinion of everyone taking part in those discussions, since crit scales better the more you got and this should make it really strong in 4.2. Det for example scales linear, instead.Quote:
How do you figure out what your BiS is? This is something I tried my hand at as well, but apparently I failed at it.
On that note, the rule of thumb is weapon dmg >>> main stat > secondary stats. Dont be one of the many guys, that believe 1+ weapon dmg isn't making a big difference. It actually is the by far strongest factor in terms of stats for every class. 97% of the time a weapon with bad sub stats wins over a weapon with -1 WD and good sub stats. Keep that in mind.Don't hesitate to ask people. I said this many times already. For some reason, some seem to believe that good players learned it all by themselves or you are considered bad, if you do ask and get laughted at. Those people discuss with others about topics and yes they do ask questions. Thats after playing and learning, the best way to get better at the game imo.Quote:
I want to learn and get better, but I'm lacking proper guidance. I tried figuring it out on my own, but regrettably... I haven't been able to. I've debated on asking some high ranked (?) healers on my world, but I chicken out and was hoping SOMEONE here could. I tried googling some answers, but I couldn't really find anything.
You'll always find toxic people and you should make sure that you filter valid criticism and ignore the toxic comments, if they are not valid. Easier said than done, yes, but it helps if you know good healers yourself and grow in confidence. Also remember, everyone does mistakes when he trys to push himself and get better. Thats just how it is.Quote:
Even now I feel kinda dumb asking for help, but after a miserable attempt in ultimate with a very toxic individual, I just... I don't wanna feel like a "baddie" anymore when I used to feel like I was pretty decent
Also and i can't stress this enough, take your time to get better and don't rush it. Create realistic goals for yourself, rather than sticking to unrealistic ones (if you do that atm). You won't be one of the best healers in a month, nobody is. I am certainly not there yet myself. We all learned, failed, wipes, discussed learned, discussed, wipes, and so on. Of course i can't judge how good you are at the moment, but maybe it would be better to stick to savage for now. After all you just started your journey as a healer and you have all the time in the world. I've seen people trying to hard and then getting frustrated and fail. Don't be one of those and again take your time :) -
01-20-2018, 01:36 PMVyriah
If you unlocked ultimate, you're a good healer. Don't listen to what some one else.
What makes a really, really good healer is generally good uptime (like any other classes) and good decision making. And the second one is the truly super special healer one while you learn uptime mostly trough practice. Don't force yourself to always be casting because some BRD on PU told you to do so, learn mechanics first and then find the best uptime arround this. You won't get good number by just pressing boutons, you'll mess up mechanics. You get good numbers by knowing when and why to press boutons.
AST uptime is simple on paper. Keep the DoT up, cast malefic for uptime, use Earthly Star the most you can. Thing is, AST both have low DPS, few OGCD, few instant spells to weave and few tools. So that's not where you're gonna shine. AST real uptime is the cards and this require on the fly decision making. No amount of advice on how to handle AST cards is gonna help is you more than practice. You're gonna draw the worst possible cards in the middle of a mechanic apocalypse. In those cases making a bad decision is better than making no decision. Rules are thumb are don't keep bole or ewer, alway use crown instead of discarding the active cards, alway discard the stocked card before drawing a new (if you want to discard to stocked card) and stock the active card you want to use if you're not gonna use it right away, even for 5 seconds. You should also draw before using sleeve draw if you have to chose, and the best situation is to get a card to stock.
But really what diffencies the more performing player from you is uptime.
The very special part now. The main thing about healer in high end content is now and understanding what happen. Don't ever step in fight thinking "this is easy". Especialy playing with PU. Take every single mechanic, one by one, and ask two questions : how can someone die to this and what can I do to prevent this. First thing : rescue doesn't exist. I'm not telling not to use it if you want, that's your problem but you shouldn't ever consider as your basic arsenal. Anything else is fair game though. All the guides in the world are just gonna say "heals through appocalypse" but you have to understand every single underlying caracteristic of a mechanics to know where to use what and how. Exdeath is the best exemple of this a sit's a really short fight the have a lot of different situations in quick sequences. All the answer players found to that fight is the exacte kind of way you must see a new fight, even if looks nothing scary. If Ultimate is your end goal, clearing the boss isn't really what matter, but understanding what is the exact sufficient solution to that exact mechanic. Because that's what will allowe you to make place place to cast more spells to get higher number in the long run. Though, that's not the main point of AST, cards are much more important.
All that said : watch really good player and try to understand what they're are doing. When I was stuck on ExDeath, I remembered the person who solo healed it with the class I was playing. So I checked the video and learned from it. There's a lot of video of the strongest guild in the game all over You Tube, feel free to check them.
And again : don't listen to anyone else. And don't feel dumb asking for help, it's better than those arrogant average player that shout on everyone without ever questioning themselves. -
01-20-2018, 01:42 PMera1NeImo this is a wrong assumption to make, because you can actually get carried in v4s and have ultimate unlocked then. I am always careful, when it comes to the argument, "you got savage gear, you have to or are good", "or "you've done this fight, you are good.". Don't get me wrong, i am NOT saying he isn't good, but just in general imo you can't judge people by their clears or gear.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vyriah
Watching videos is an very good advice. He can find videos of good healers if he search for speedkill or world first on youtube.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vyriah
Why would you not listen to valid criticism? Sometimes people give you an advice and even if it comes across as unfriendly, the advice can still be valid. Thats something everyone has to judge themselves. Of course someone saying "You shouldn't heal anymore" is nothing but a toxic comment and should be ignored.Quote:
And again : don't listen to anyone else. And don't feel dumb asking for help, it's better than those arrogant average player that shout on everyone without ever questioning themselves.
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01-20-2018, 01:58 PMVyriah
I'm saying that because toxic players were mentionned in the opening post.
Also, this raid wasn't easy to heal through, someone who completed it is a competent healer. Especially someone who still want to improve after that. -
01-20-2018, 04:05 PMLadyKairi
I've tried saying that we healers should work together and such, but my old co-healer was so stuck on the main-healer/off-healer set up. in regards to the toxic person, I do take criticism. They weren't giving any help/tips. They just went on a rant on how most of our party sucked and shouldn't do ultimate because we weren't "orange/gold".
Is there a certain way I should align pots/buffs? I've tried experimenting, but don't really get up to people who are able to hit 2k. or is that heavily relied on how the rest of the team coordinates their buffs as well?
I've been practicing on whm a bit, since I may swap jobs for sigmascape, and I've been slowly breaking that itch that tells me to keep people tipped off and "trust the HoTs". I'll try to watch some more videos. I know I also have enmity issues when using regens. I don't spam asp Helios/medica2 and I've even waited until last minute to heal AND used lucid, and I still seem to rip hate off the tanks (Almagest is where this happens most of the time).
Anyone know how to read FFlogs? ._. -
01-20-2018, 08:49 PMTridusIf you're in ultimate at all, you're already in the top group of healers in the game. :) The time asking for help is dumb is when you don't do it.Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyKairi
Here's a fairly lengthy guide on getting started reading fflogs: https://www.mooglemedia.com/understanding-ff-logs/
Looks like you've gotten lots of great advice already, but nobody had posted that. Let us know if you need more after that. :) -
01-20-2018, 11:52 PMVyriahAs AST, you singularly don't care about this. Even better : you stellarly don't care about this. The more you throw cards, the better it is. It matter a whole lot more important for SCH that must by any mean synch its Chain Stratagem with Trick Attack/Hypercharge timing every two minutes. WHM is a bit more of trouble as they have Presence of Mind, but it's on a 2m30 CD and doesn't align with the 1 minute burst rotation that net the most damage for every one currently. I never tried WHM in that kind of setup so I wouldn't tell if a 3 minute Presence of Mind land higher DPS than a use on cooldown 2m30 one. The second one gain one more cats after 12m30, so it always will be good for PU but optimized group might land higher numbers by using it in synch with other buffs.Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyKairi
It's still good to know when buffs stacking windown happens. There's essentially three of them : the 1 minute trick attack/hypercharge, the 2 minute chain stratagem/devotion/dragon sight(/embolden if RDM use it for raid) and the 3 minute Battle Litany/Battle Voice/Fraternity. The two first will synch every two minutes, the first and the last every 3 minute and everything every 6 minute into a gigantic mess of super high raid DPS. All of this generally last for something like 10 seconds and will be placed in a way everyone will profit of it, so the actual timing may change from fight to fight but the idea behind it nothing more complicated than "stack everything possible". The good thing about knowing this is that you can use a potion or thing like that to profit those windows but as an AST it's that moment where landing and raid wide Balance, or boosted Balance on MCH, or boosted spire on BRD will have an extremly high raid contribution. Don't actively search to do that is you will certainly lose buff uptime in the long run. Sleeve Draw is a 2 minutes CD too, but you shouldn't rely on it as it can and will betray you. On the other hand, it's much more stable if you already have a stocked card before using Sleeve Draw.
As AST the flow of the fight will change greatly depending in the way the cards come. Wich is your main concerne as AST is much more straighforward healer that will mostly rely on a restricted set of basic but strong tools.
Doing 2k DPS is clearly not a goal for AST, above 1k isn't something to be ashamed of and arround 1k5 start the high DPS. But personnal DPS is more WHM alley than yours. Casting malefic to fill downtimes is higly recomended, healing in more efficient way to allow for more malefic cast is great and again, Earthly Star is your friend as it does damage and heal for a bullshit amount it's the most win-win spell in your arsenal. You can try to improve the number you guy by doing that, but you shouldn't aim for top FFlogs DPS. Because that's not what your job is about.
The thing you're talking about O4S is exactly what I meant with the bit about good decision making, knowing the fight and understanding underlying mechanics. O4S resest it's aggro every Grand Cross casts but not all grand cross are the same and the boss don't do attack so it's not alway dramatic to have aggro if tanks get aggro back next tank mechanic. It's mostly a tank problem but you should be carefull about your your lucid dream usage. The main problematic part is Grand Cross Delta (especially the second one) and you will get aggro during almagest at that point. You just healed ever before hit, after and HoTs ticks through it while boss just had a aggro reset. Some parties like to use cover/invicible for the healer there but if it's not what you're doing don't use lucid dreaming before the tank provoc. No matter how high you are, taunt > shirks businesses > lucid dreaming will solve the issue. If you're already doing that, tanks are the problem.
From what you're saying, I think your improvement wouldn't come from getting gold/orange numbers, but fom better team coordination. You don't need orange number to go into bahamut, you need the kind of coordnation orange numbers means to clear Bahamut. But Titania will do a good job at whiping you if you don't have this, so you shouldn't really bother to ask if you can or not. If Titania wipes you it's not enough, if you kills it it's enough. Parse and FFlogs are just tools to achieve that, not gate keepers. -
01-20-2018, 11:54 PMRisvertasashiFirst step is to move away from this attitude. You have better potential for combined DPS than the Heavensward meta of 'main healer'/'off healer'.Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyKairi
Second step... get as much crit as you can.
Third: People have already mentioned it so I'll just add in my support. Understand how to use fflogs as a self improvement tool. -
01-21-2018, 07:50 PMLadyKairi
Thank you so much for the help ;A; I really appreciate it! I've been practicing my butt off, and I'm starting to feel proud of myself. Farmed V4S earlier and was able to figure out how to keep my agro down, trust my cohealer, and I'm starting to really embrace the "healers work together" thing and not the main/off healer. It was far more fun, had hardly any MP issues, and kept overhealing to a minimum. Y'all have opened my eyes.
Is DH even worth it on healers? I've seen quite a few people meld a ton of it, so melding has been pretty confusing (I've used so many clusters just from changing melds). So, I know I'm lacking pretty badly in the crit area due to the confusion. I saw the "big numbers" healers on my server and thought "hey maybe that's what I need to do" (I know, bad mentality ._.).Quote:
Originally Posted by Risvertasashi
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01-21-2018, 08:42 PMRaminaxThere's some theorycrafting on it in this post on reddit. Doesn't seem to really be worth it unless you're chasing ranks on fflogs. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by LadyKairi
Personally, I have one DH Materia in my Genji Eboshi, although that's because a second Crit materia would've been almost nullified by the stat caps. And I didn't really feel the need for more Piety. -
01-21-2018, 09:21 PMJollyy5
Like with tanks, healers have 364(?) DH, which essentially is 0% chance to get a direct hit, so basically tanks and healers meld their gear with DH because it gives you the most bang for your buck when it comes to DPS.
DH does nothing for your heals though, which makes it a bit questionable on healers. -
01-21-2018, 10:00 PMera1NeYou are right, when talking about tanks, because if they use crafted gear on their right side and meld strengh + DH overmelds in it. They'll get a decent boost with it, but for healers DH is really overrated. It does increase the dmg, but only with less than 1% or according to the theocrafter in the reddit link above your post, about 0,3-0,5%. This is really not a lot at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jollyy5
For some reason a lot of people seem to think melding dh increases the dmg by a lot, which i can not understand, since the math is there. Maybe they believe this, because DH is very good for tanks. :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyKairi
Personally, i'd recommend going for crit, especially in 4.2, since crit gets better the more you get and if the gear is not completely crit-less, than we should be able to reach even higher crit numbers than we can currently. After that, you have to decide between det/dh and then, you can look at Spell Speed, if you want an certain GCD (timer).To be honest and don't be discouraged by it, most of the dmg comes from succeeding in ABC and trying to heal efficiently (with your co-healer). Basically stuff you can influence by your own. The only really big issues that you can't really influence with your own performance is the cd usage of the tanks and how many mistakes the group does. This can have an effect on your dmg, ofc. Playing efficiently is more troublesome in PF with a random healer, but for this reason i recommended, that you know the toolkits of the other healers, if you don't know them already. As an simple example, there is rarely a reason to heal, if the ast put an earthly star down. Try to look at what the other healer is doing and adept, if you can't talk to him in voice. Other, but smaller factor are for instance kill time, mitigation of the dd/tank, buffood, and so on.Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyKairi
If you did use lucid than chances are it was a tank mistake or your co-healer forced you to heal much more than you should. Sometimes tanks use a different strat and just cover the healer. Just talk to them before the pull, what they want to do.Quote:
I've been practicing on whm a bit, since I may swap jobs for sigmascape, and I've been slowly breaking that itch that tells me to keep people tipped off and "trust the HoTs". I'll try to watch some more videos. I know I also have enmity issues when using regens. I don't spam asp Helios/medica2 and I've even waited until last minute to heal AND used lucid, and I still seem to rip hate off the tanks (Almagest is where this happens most of the time).
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01-22-2018, 02:11 AMRisvertasashiIf you itemize for crit... you won't be able to meld more on a lot of your gear. So in those cases you can meld DH to chase that DPS even higher.Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyKairi
Is it worth it? Difficult question. You might feel it's better to meld another stat if your static struggles to reliably complete mechanics and you regularly have to deal with deaths in your runs, or similar. But if you really want to push your DPS as high as possible... itemize for crit, meld crit where you can't get it on the item, meld DH on crit-capped item. -
01-22-2018, 02:47 AMVyriah
One or two DH meld can be good as it will make direct hit happens, but you should be carefull about melding more.
Other than this main healer is generally crit/Spell speed. Crit somehow look like an aggressive wtat compared to det wich kind ascream "I'm healing stat !", but HoTs can crit so if you use them a lot the pay off use huge. Spell Speed simply increase your HoT and DoT efficiency, so for both DiuAST and WHM it's good. It's even extremly good on WHM since their damage rely greatly on thei two DoTs.
Determination is not a bad stat by the way, it affects direct healing better than the other two, it's the third stat you want if you're fine running low piety. -
01-22-2018, 11:19 AMFeliAiko
When you get the chance, you should check out this Healing Guide. Bear in mind it's really long (so don't feel compelled to read it all in one sitting), but it covers all aspects of healing when it comes to FFXIV:
Google Docs General Healing Guide