SE, This is An Opportunity to Regain Confidence From PvPers

To quote Bayohne from the Live Letter:

Quote:

---

we look forward to hearing your feedback from the pre-season.

---

If any "Feedback: [Specific job/skill/role/mechanic]" or the like pops up, don't ignore it. Don't fail to make changes based on pre-season activity then blame it on people being busy with Sigmascape. Don't shotgun everyone into Season 7 with major issues still left unhandled.

If you want us to hold any truth or confidence in your words, then we encourage you to LISTEN and be active in communicating with us during this pre-season. Failure to do so will only further damage the Feast, and what confidence the PvP community has remaining of you.

This is an opportunity for a win-win for both devs and players. It's time to listen. It's time to communicate. It's time to step up and do better.

Amen.

/10char

I thought it was pretty obvious that line was meant to be sarcasm.

No, they're actually serious when they say that.

How well they listen or follow up however. . .

Quote:

---

We have made as much adjustments possible for PvP actions as well.

---

SE, may I just say this is the kind of thing we'd like more elaboration on? Sure, it's nice that we got to see the new map in the Live Letter, but with it being the ONLY map in rotation during pre-season, we'll see plenty of it, arguably more than we want by the end. But let's not be coy: job balancing and the way actions work/don't work have been a hot topic for a while. Rather than giving us vague generalizations of things and making us wait for patch notes, how about elaborating a bit more ahead of time? You did it for PvE changes during the Letter; doing it for PvP would've been a bit more effective use of time than queueing a match and doing nothing during it.

Honestly, I think they are being tight lipped about things that could encourage widespread backlash before they are even implemented. Some of the more controversial changes are being addressed super vaguely. I too wanna see the PVP change specifics, but knowing how angry the PVP community has been at anything short of what they wany to hear, they’re timid. They probably also don’t want people preparing for Feast changes to their advantage. Just throwing darts at the most probable reasons why they aren’t giving specifics.

Hell, they’re being vague on what is going to happen to people who hold multiple houses on their servers.

I’ll prepare the bomb shelter for when the news drops. /hides

We understand that some things they can't disclose ahead of time. But to say "we're making various changes" after tons of feedback, AND after the last changes they made addressed NONE of the major issues people gave feedback on and made something that worked properly worse than what it was, well, THAT is where our confidence in positive change takes a nosedive. It's worth noting that there's no "preparing" for Feast changes other than practice matches, which people should do anyways. The Feast isn't something you prep for like housing.

No need to be timid if you're upfront and explain what's going on and why, and open yourselves to feedback before the change rolls out. . . Oh, but then again, they did that once, then ignored the feedback and pushed a bad change anyways. Thus the almost nihilistic sense of confidence in the PvP development team from the community as of now. . .

I honestly think the chat restrictions in Feast were because it takes a lot of man power to respond to every report that stems from people getting too competitive and saying awful things in the heat of the moment. I get you guys gave Feedback to it, but it is a teen game. Its an example of the few ruining it for everyone. I think you need to stop putting the blame on anti-PVPers and SE, and more look at the source of tge problem: people getting to angry in the heat of the moment, and with the anonymity of the internet, saying and doing things they’d never say in RL.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kisagami

I think you need to stop putting the blame on anti-PVPers and SE, and more look at the source of tge problem: people getting to angry in the heat of the moment, and with the anonymity of the internet, saying and doing things they’d never say in RL.

---

Honestly, it's the ones who weren't regulars that tended to mouth off a bit more. That isn't to say there weren't regulars that did step out of line, but most of us who played with and against each other so often had that sense of community and respect for one another. While it might sound like I'm pointing fingers, I'm really not. I'm simply calling it as it was.

They probably aren't saying much because a lot of the changes might be potency, and when they do preview some, the playerbase can get mad. The WHM changes for example were really controversial, but they've died down because people realize if anything they were pretty balanced overall.

Plus, no offense Third, they want real gameplay feedback, and then forum feedback when people play. It's a lot easier to show RW is busted by them looking at a match and seeing 9 out of 24 people or more healers, or 75%+ of matches timing out, then trying to get feedback before the changes go live and people are speculating how it will play.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

Honestly, it's the ones who weren't regulars that tended to mouth off a bit more. That isn't to say there weren't regulars that did step out of line, but most of us who played with and against each other so often had that sense of community and respect for one another. While it might sound like I'm pointing fingers, I'm really not. I'm simply calling it as it was.

---

SE is trying to avoid situations like this. Things like Rival Wings are them testing to see if their community could get into something ESports related, but any time you have an Esports thing, you have issues like this. For example, Blizzard has tried to get a handle on it, but the bad actors just laugh at the attempts and find ways around it. With the Feast changes, no way around it and no opportunity to do it. They gotta focus on gameplay. Or use Discord. No wasted man power and the regulation of it is off their shoulders.

With the current route of competitive gaming, the changes are there for a reason. Time to take a hard look at why the changes were made instead of white knighting the community you know versus the experience of other gaming companies and people who have experienced the toxicity first hand.

What a competitive video game star’s anti-gay slur means for the newest pro sport - The Washington Post
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.f692c103f462

With Yoshi-P alluding the rise in Feast participation to Chat Ban rather than to the Garo event, don't hold your breath. The dude can have some pretty fantastic mental gymnastics, and can cook up correlations that fit his narrative rather than what really happened.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kisagami

With the current route of competitive gaming, the changes are there for a reason. Time to take a hard look at why the changes were made instead of white knighting the community you know versus the experience of other gaming companies and people who have experienced the toxicity first hand.

---

Okay then, so tell me where this fix is in PvE; the larger and more frequented content of this game, where it also happens just as much? Don't say it doesn't. There wouldn't be massive complaints about mentors, housing/plot purchase greed, Praetorium first-timer abuse, or any of the the more common examples of players being quite nasty toward one another. Why then is it suddenly so easily overlooked as if it's not happening? I've dealt with nasty players in PvP and PvE, arguably MORE in PvE, and I couldn't tell you why. Not like I go around provoking others or playing the victim either; it happens, rarely, but it's happened to me more in PvE. So where's the big fix and the people supporting it in PvE?

Because players are actively competing against each other in PVP. Its far more heated. In PVE, you really don’t see it outside of savage content, and anytime you have a big group like mentor chat you’re going to see more bad actors because its a ton of people in one place. It isn’t the same. In PVE, you’re rewarded more for working together. PVP not so much.
And I don’t recall any moment of people being swatted because they lost in a PVE dungeon...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kisagami

In PVE, you’re rewarded more for working together. PVP not so much.

---

I'm just gonna leave this here (credit to the author):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQ4d-2AJj_k

Yeah, not rewarded for working together...

Th equivalent to feast chat in pve is SE not allowing parsers. The nastiness in PvE doesn't happen as much because you don't lose ranking points in pve, and can just ditch a bad group with no penalty and try for the next one. You get a bad group in feast, you just loss rank points and tanked your qualifiers, and that's on top of how PvP is a lot more primal and antagonistic overall. Ranked pvp is always hostile and antagonistic in games that have it, which is why including it here always baffles me.

Listen too much and they'll end up like blizzard, answering any call for unbalance when it was a player issue,

Listen too little and sometimes a real issue can be ignored.

Hard to find that balance

Or you know, they can start pushing out updates more often...if they are even half serious about this Esprutz business. If you don't push out more changes, how can you experiment and learn what is too much, what is too little?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kisagami

Because players are actively competing against each other in PVP. Its far more heated. In PVE, you really don’t see it outside of savage content, and anytime you have a big group like mentor chat you’re going to see more bad actors because its a ton of people in one place. It isn’t the same. In PVE, you’re rewarded more for working together. PVP not so much.
And I don’t recall any moment of people being swatted because they lost in a PVE dungeon...

---

First: the entire point of all 3 PvP modes is to work together to win. Yes, even solo Feast, as contradictory as that sounds.

Second: Extreme cases aside, which shouldn't be used as supportive statement given how extreme and uncommon they are (thankfully), there are plenty of cases of misconduct or toxicity among players, just as I mentioned before. You can't handwave it by saying you see more of it in a big group. If anything, that supports my statement more than it refutes it. And no, it is quite the same. That anyone would think handling issues of player misconduct should be treated differently because of PvP/PvE differences is wrong and biased. Thus again, I contend, where's the blanket restriction for all the offenders in PvE?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RiyahArp

Ranked pvp is always hostile and antagonistic in games that have it, which is why including it here always baffles me.

---

Please stop speaking in absolutes, especially where it's not always true. And spare us your annecdotal evidence. Yes, passions run hot in competition, but let's not act like anyone who plays ranked PvP is some hostile, nasty person. I'm sure I, and many other mature adult gamers who know how to be civil wouldn't take kindly to what's implied in that statement.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AriaFairchild

With Yoshi-P alluding the rise in Feast participation to Chat Ban rather than to the Garo event, don't hold your breath. The dude can have some pretty fantastic mental gymnastics, and can cook up correlations that fit his narrative rather than what really happened.

---

Combine that with the rest of the interview, where they talked about how all the changes they were making to PvP were the "way of the future" for MMOs... We're honestly hitting 1.0 levels of ego and self-delusion at this point. Are we going to have to drop Dalamud on the entire PvP section of the game again?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Isala

Are we going to have to drop Dalamud on the entire PvP section of the game again?

---

If it would give us a better overall PvP system in game, I'll strip naked and lay down at ground zero to wait for impact.

The dalamud one made me chuckle.
I'll use it one day for sure

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Isala

Combine that with the rest of the interview, where they talked about how all the changes they were making to PvP were the "way of the future" for MMOs... We're honestly hitting 1.0 levels of ego and self-delusion at this point. Are we going to have to drop Dalamud on the entire PvP section of the game again?

---

https://scontent.fyyc4-1.fna.fbcdn.n...6b&oe=5AE96E2F