Crafting is amazing, but crafting in the expansions..? (Gameplay problem)

Hey guys, I love crafting. Which honestly makes FFXIV the perfect MMO for me , but I have a slight issue...
(due to max 1000 characters I'll list the pros and cons shortly and then explain further)

Pros:
-Diversity in classes and recipes is amazing
-ARR crafting is great while levelling. a lot of fun to level it along with your combat classes.
-glamours and in-level progression at 50/60/70 are awesome
-Everything else that I'm not about to list in con's

cons:
-lvl 51-59/61-69 crafting is useless
-Master Recipes and such should be a bit more clear and easily accesible.

So my issue is 99% the first con, the levels 51-59/61-69 are completely useless.
While levelling you have Poetics gear, quest gear and dungeon gear which is all way better, especially in Stormblood.
It comes down to 51-59/61-69 is not fun to do, which is what a game should do, and I think this should be brought to attention of the devs to make them not repeat the mistakes.

I agree, leveling your crafting along with your combat class should be rewarded, also the gear pieces may get sold on marketboard for more reasons than just glamour or levequests :).

I think they are happy with tome item level overlapping leveling gear so it lasts a bit longer at the expense of crafters. I think they will probably keep that formula and giving out the crafted gear freely in quests. There's some small demand for the crafted leveling gear to smash up for desynth skill progress, and glamor purposes for the more interesting looking bits. I can't really think of a great solution because if they made crafted stuff a lot more useful then there would be a different group of people unhappy that they are forced to buy them (or get into crafting themselves).

I see what you mean, sadly those tome items overlapping still make it impossible to just level along with combat classes on the way, except if you start the whole scrip thing and grind that for too long of a time :p
And that is the exact problem I have too, like you I myself can't think of a solution on this specific issue either, although even if just a tiny bit better than the quest gear would already make me happy.
With the current system, it's rediculously hard to get HQ gear while still levelling your classes. (Ofcourse it's not impossible with the right consumables, rotation and HQ materials and probably quite a few tries and some luck, but you know what I mean, this is a huge amount of effort compared to "run here and kill 5 of these", which ends up in the same HQ gear I think)

It all just impedes on levelling a whole lot. I don't mind it on max level at all, it's super nice to have an extra sense of progression, but the uselessnes of lvl 61-69 is making me so sad right now

Tomestone gear did not make 51-59 recipes useless. PALACE OF THE DEAD did that. You can take a job from 30 to 60 without bothering to update gear in there, and then just spend the Poetics on the Shire gear.

Tomestone gear did not make 61-69 recipes useless. Crafted gear is still a viable alternative to getting dungeon drops in those levels. The Shire gear gets upgraded by level 64 HQ crafted ot 65 dungeon gear, I believe.

If you plan on using nothing but upgraded Shire gear from 60 until you complete the level 70 job quest, you are leaving a lot of character power on the table in the meantime.

As far as crafting HQ gear is concerned, the solution is very simple : level all your crafters together, use the right cross class moves, and keep your crafting gear up-to-date (which includes keeping it HQ). Do that, and you can HQ ANY non-starred recipe your level or lower fairly easily (though with some RNG) starting in the lower-mid 20’s.

-It doesn't really matter why it's pointless, but it has to be notified that it is, be it PotD or anything else

-The craft weapons for example have at lvl 68 NQ crafts still 3 flat damage less than Shire weapons, a very small amount of stats more, but as I recall the flat damage is more important.

-You don't need to keep using Shire gear, cause quests and dungeons will outgear you eventually, and your crafting will remain useless

-The solution of crafting every crafter together does not help the problem of there not being a point to lvl 51-59 and 61-69 gear recipes. and as I stated before, it's not impossible to craft HQ recipes while levelling, but it's not easy, you need to get HQ materials and the crafting class gear, which I'm all fine with, except for the part where it ends up then being at best the same strength as quest gear; where early the shire gear is a lot better and later dungeon gear still is.

Crafting feels like a disadvantage, untill the max lvl intervals.

Shire, i260, Katana has 83 damage. HQ level 62 katana has 83 damage. HQ level 64 katana has 84 damage, same as the Augmented Shire Katana. HQ level 66 katana has 87 damage. That’s just one example. Should we get into the armor as well?

Its actually rather easy to craft non-starred recipes HQ with all NQ materials, provided you’ve got HQ level-appropriate gear and the right cross class moves. As I said, that starts in the lower-mid 20’s, so very applicable to the 51-59 and 61-69 ranged you are complaining about. You DO have to worry about RNG, which may be why you think its hard, and in the level ranges you are talking about, you do have a higher-than-ARR penalty for being under the level of the recipe you are crafting, but ultimately it is easy to HQ at-level recipes.

It's a lot of effort getting HQ out NQ mats as you say, cause not only is the RNG there as you said, but getting the appropriate gear that you talk about, also takes a lot of time to craft, and to get that to HQ for more chances for the HQ combat gear, you're throwing us into a huge amount of effort, which you have to go through every few levels when you upgrade you gear... where the quest gear is still equal to the HQ which is a huge amount of effort in the way you state it and dungeon gear is still better, and literally Augmented Shire gear is 3dmg higher than NQ lvl 68 crafts. getting the HQ as shown above is huge amounts of work.

(please read next post)

You can come up with "solutions" all you want, it remains the fact that you don't get rewarded for levelling your crafts along with your combat, as a matter of fact you get punished untill you get good enough crafting gear to get HQ crafts, which remain still one of the weaker things you come across, cause there's quests and dungeons which you will undoubtedly will be doing one of and most likely both. And even when you do get high enough for HQ it will be at max equal to the quest gear. There is just no advantage to it, only if you compare the high effort crafted to the very lowest "no effort" gear if you understand what I mean with this.

I see that you are of the opinion crafting is fine, and I agree, but that the strength of the 51-59/61-69 gets outshined by every other means to get gear currently in the game of the same level. except for buying from NPC's ofcourse those equal NQ crafts.

crafted gear between 51-59 and 61-69 is totally fine enough to play well.
and come on -.- since stormblood is out crafting is so easy that every blind clown can craft HQ. i didnt even had to change my craftinggear (lvl60 ilvl 190 with materia) untill 68. im sure it was no needed to craft 68 stuff i just made it cuz i was bored.

To hit on some of your points, you can't compare nq gear to augmented tomb gear since you should only be crafting hq gear, yes you need hq matts that is part of leveling crafting until your stats are high enough you can use nq. There is no point in making nq gear that ppl can get in a city from a vendor, and if you are using your crafters to make $ it will cover the cost of your matts even if you don't have your gatherers leveled.

You should have your gatherers leveled about 5 lvls or so above your crafters to have access to all the matts you need if you don't want to buy them.

Yes dungeon gear has slightly higher stats because it is one lvl above crafted gear for those cpl levels, crafted gear is on even lvls (62, 64, 66, ect) and dungeon gear is odd (63, 65, 67) the point is it makes no difference in easy leveling content and not all ppl want to farm a gearset (outside of glamour) that will need to be replaced as soon as they get all the pieces because they leveled in the process.

I make a ton of gil selling leveling gear both to ppl that need it for progression and for ppl using it for leve trade-ins that either can't or won't make it themselves, so if you think making money is a complete waste then I guess it is.
http://i64.tinypic.com/14e572h.png

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Uderax

the strength of the 51-59/61-69 gets outshined by every other means to get gear currently in the game of the same level.

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Level 51 - i130 Augmented Ironworks is better.
Level 52 - i130 Augmented Ironworks is better.
Level 53 - i130 Augmented Ironworks is better.
Level 54 - i130 augmented Ironworks or level 54 HQ crafted, equivalent.
Level 55 - level 55 dungeon drops are better.
Level 56 - Crafted HQ level 56 gear is better.
Level 57 - level 57 dungeon drops are better.
Level 58 - Crafted HQ level 58 gear is better.
Level 59 - level 59 dungeon drops are better.
Level 60 - Tomestone gear

See the pattern? That exact pattern holds true for the 61-69 level range as well (level 60 tomestone gear for a bit, then alternating HQ crafted and dungeon drops).

The only reason I said before that POTD makes gear under 60 pointless is because it is a means of leveling to 60 without using any gear at all.

but the same HQ geart at 56 and 58 is still completely free from story quests, which you automatically do, you get 2 sets in total every time even if you include a few sidequests if I'm correct.
and yeah I got the reasoning behind PotD, but you can see that it does not make a difference to me why, but just that it is of very little to no use.

Dear Tsubaki75,
To hit on some of your points, you can compare NQ gear to Augmented gear, since you can't just craft HQ gear, while levelling it's still difficult and very time consuming, especially compared to the other way of getting that same HQ gear which is the quests which everyone literally has to do. There is indeed no point to craft that NQ gear thqat you can buy at NPC vendors, which is exactly what I said. And the point is not about money, cause you don't spend money on quests or dungeons either, so that aspect we leave beside us.

Your gatherers 5 levels higher, is nice, however while levelling your combat classes, especially if it's still your main, you're screwed, cause you cannot do this, think about it for a second please................... (for example leatherworking, GL with getting your skins from monsters 5 levels higher???)

Continued in next post

this is an anwser to the paragraph that makes no sense whatsoever: even or odd level makes no difference indeed. the whole point is that people don't need to farm for gear, they get if for free, all of it better than crafts, what are you on about?

If you sell it through market board, you don't know who you sell it to, and in that case it is most definitely just for leves or GC dailies. people don't spend those sums on pointless equips, most people do see that equips are free from quests and dungeons everywhere. and oh yeah, moneymaking, that's totally what this whole post is about................ thanks for all your input....

Uderax ... you’re overlooking something : many people like to level multiple combat jobs to the cap. MSQ rewards only allow you to get one, maybe two sets of gear for “free” - the rest have to be gotten somehow. Crafting and dungeon runs are that somehow.

In this earlier post you made yourself, you showed... how at max the crafted gear can be equal to the free quest gear, even when you start to level your 3rd combat class you still only have 2 out of 8 lvls were crafting gear is better if you HQ it.

"The rest has to be gotten somehow" sure, how about crafting, which is like seperate classes devoted to exactly that and nothing else why is it not logical that this then is the better way or at least equal to any other way? extra effort without rewards, or let's say big amounts of effort for very little rewards until max lvl, is where it's at.

And to just clear this out, I want it to be viable, not the best, but I do want it equal so there's a point to it while levelling, that's it.

See with a combat class you have in between milestones, at 'that' level I can do 'that' dungeon, or I can go 'there' or do 'that' instance or some people look forward to continueing the story. at crafting it's just... at that level I'm just 1 level closer to max, where I can finally do stuff.
A forsight like that on Combat classes, and this game wouldn't even have 1/20th of the players it has now.
That is what I mean.

And 1 more thing, these "free sets"... are expect for weapons shared from the quests, so if you take tank and healer for example, you have 6 combat classes free levelling gear now tell me those 2 lvls where HQ gear is strongest at 66 and 68 for the few remaining classes is worth putting all the effort in it to from lvl 61-69...?
it's not, it's a max lvl reward system which is not that pleasant for people the think clearly. and it's the same still with Heavensward crafts too.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Roth_Trailfinder

Uderax ... you’re overlooking something : many people like to level multiple combat jobs to the cap. MSQ rewards only allow you to get one, maybe two sets of gear for “free” - the rest have to be gotten somehow. Crafting and dungeon runs are that somehow.

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This^ not everyone stops at their main, yes crafting hq is hard and time consuming but you certainly can do it at lvl if you are leveling all of your crafters together for the cross skills you get at 50 like you should be and are keeping your gear current hq, it sounds like you just don't want to put the work in which is fine but you can't say that there is no point when you have already been given several.
You are missing the point 1st of all that what is "better" for leveling gear is not the same for everyone you don't need to have level 65 bis to smoothly progress thru 2 instances till the next dungeon is unlocked. Also you can't say that ppl don't buy gear for leveling only for leves cause you don't know.
You said that the post was about money making well guess what, you NEED to sell things to cover the cost of making them. It doesn't matter if you only do enough to cover your costs or to make a ton of gil. That is just basic common sense. Idk who buys my stuff and for what reason the point is i put it up for sale and it sells. It pays for every matt i use with a good profit margin.

Excluding main weapon, a full upgrade from i270 gear to level 69 gear gives about a 15% increase in damage. That makes upgrades pretty much optional for everyone except tanks (defense goes up about 80% over the same range, it's noticed.)

It takes 4 days to go from 65-70. I was leveling one Class per week and this was just doing roulettes/challenge log. You spend so little time at the level that it becomes irrelevant to buy crafted gear from 65-70. The chances of you doing relevant content is very slim since leveling tends to favor lower level dungeons and all the other roulettes are capped at 50 or 60. This is a bigger problem. The exp gain is so easy from 60-70 that even though you may be missing power it may not ever be needed.

the thing that miffs me off more is not the fact <69 i useless but the RNG is this game is volatile beyond comparison....you can have the perfect rotation on making the prefab mats and then fail 27 chances of 90% in a row....that's a chance of less than 1 sextillion....(0.1^27)...that's simply BS and it REALLY makes you rage (regardless of how much patience you have) when it happens to be on a synth where the mats could've been worth millions on the market.

And FYI that's not just on crafting...it happens way too often in gathering as well. So either someone is going to get a lootdrop that's not even on the actual loot table or I'm just the unluckiest person in history (it happened to me 3 times this week already)

EDIT: It makes me think the "RNG" is actually predetermined instead of actually RNG...like how it was in XCOM2 BEFORE the devs actually patched that.