No need for jump potions

Here is proof:
lv62 and all ARR MSQ done in 4 days and 1 hour of play time. Add to this, it happened some times I got afk and timer counting while I were doing nothing.

And, ofc, done also a number of side quests for unlocking alliance raids, primals, and trials. Maybe a run for just the MSQ alone will take much less than four days.

https://i.imgur.com/ucZekYT.jpg

The above, to show that some blame given to jump potions for the "bad playing" is quite misplaced. Yes, a potion will let you go there in no time, but about player skills, how much four days of game time are different than the zero days of a "jumped" character? I'd say, not much.
I'd like now to reach HW's end and see how much time is needed to do that without jumping.

And yes, I'm using Tank for speedup queues. But if you don't use jumps to play with friends, do your friends leave you alone on the dps queue? I hope not.

Well, obviously there was never a real "need" for jump potions but more so a desire of people who dont want to spend 4 days leveling/questing. Dont get me wrong, I never thought jump potions were or are a good idea (and after I met several cluesless level 60+ people in various contents who most likely bought jump potions I'm even more so of the opinion that they shouldnt have been added).

I dont actually understand your intention with this thread though - jump potions arent going away, infact they lifted the restrictions on how many you can buy. So is this supposed to let potential buyers of jump-potions know that they dont need them? They might very well feel otherwise - 4 days in total playtime are 96 hours just to reach HW. And then its the same amount of time for the HW MSQ. And on top of that about the same amount (or a little less, because not so many patches yet) for SB. So we're looking at about 250 hours just for the MSQ - something I really enjoy about the game. For the longest time I had trouble to understand why people would want to skip the part of the game I enjoy the most, but hey, other people like other things, I guess and for someone who wants to only raid or even play with their friends who are already at SB-endgame 250 hours are... a lot of time. Think about someone who can only play about 2 hours a day - thats 125 days or about 4 months to reach SB-endgame. 4 months, not 4 days. So... I can see why someone might want to skip that.
I agree that there is no need for jump potions - neither to skip the story or to level a character. I've been getting about 1 level each day on my samurai from just doing leveling+trails+alliance roulette.
Leveling is easy.
Questing is easy.
But both are demanding, timewise.
There might not be a "need" for jump potions - people with all jobs at 70 and newbies reaching Shinryu everyday (without paying for jump/leveling potions) are proving that. But there cleary is a desire for them... and I can only hope that specially people who are buying story-jump potions are making a very careful and considerate choice there.
I dont wanna sound rude but I'm not sure why you've made this post - to discourage people from buying jump potions? To encourage the removal of jump potions? The first one is unlikely - I doubt that people who are buying those potions are on the forums. The second one is just as unlikely - its good money for SE.
So... do you just want to discuss this? hear other opinions on the matter?

But is this factored right? Let's keep into consideration that:

1) Newbies are playing the game for the first time. Meaning that they will probably get stuck more often. You know the game better than them.
2) That's only ARR, which means, players that are casual and play 2 or 3 hours a day, that'd be almost a month of gaming. By the time being, they can't get DRK or AST.
3) People really don't have the time for it and want to experience the latest expansion asap. Either because they have friends or want to try the endgame out. Other MMOs also did this.


I'm sure there are more, but the jump potions have their purposes. For new players and old players alike.

Yeah I don't get the point of this post either.

4 days and 1 hour of playtime is 97 hours (and you only did up to the start of HW, whereas there is also a jump potion all the way up until the start of SB).

For a person who can only play 2 hours a day, that's 48 days.
A person who can only play on the weekend might not be able to finish for several months when all they might want is to go play with friends and just learn the endgame rotation right away. Jump Potions are targeted at such people.

They're also targeted at people who have already completed MSQ on one server and want to make a new character on another server to go play with friends who might be there.

Besides there are multiple types of jump potions and this one would only affect the MSQ jump potion. Maybe a person already has completed MSQ and gotten 1 job to 60/70 naturally but now they want to use the leveling jump potion to get another job up immediately and start learning it.

And contrary to "the sky is falling" people (which I am not saying the OP is, and the recent edit shows s/he is not, but I know some people reading might feel this way), not all jump potion users are going to jump straight into end game content without learning. Many will work with friends or lower level dungeons or potd or refer to guides to learn their job. The ones that don't are most likely the same kind of people who wouldn't have learned their jobs even while leveling them normally anyway.

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Originally Posted by Vidu

I dont actually understand your intention with this thread though

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Basically, is that jump potions doesn't are detrimental to the game, because how easily you can get 'thru the content today. And maybe this also some kind of invite to play, and enjoy, all the game without skipping parts of it because the "fear" to be slow on catching up is quite misplaced.

Edit: and as Quintina and Lilseph pointed up, if you play so low as a couple hours a day or less, you really don't need to "skip" anything, because at that rate you cannot think to keep up with the "front lines".

Jump potions were never about need. They are about desire. The desire to play a game with your friends that may already be well ahead of you and don't want to help you slog through to 60.

I thought jump potions go until the end of HW?
Plus, you were a tank there, which cut down queue times significantly.

I'm glad you were able to do all that! On the flipside just because you were able to do that does not mean other people aren't bound by stricter time constraints or that they necessarily enjoy the grind. I frankly didn't and it's why I jumped three alts the moment I had the chance to do so, particularly the ones who were needed to make in character rooms for our roleplaying FC. I'm not going to put four days worth of grinding into a character I'll never use just because I want to do something nice for my FC mates. The GC grind alone was more than headache worthy given the absolute lack of fate farming these days. Likewise I also know several people who job skipped because they wanted to play with a friend and didn't want to hold said friend back with days or even weeks worth of grinding depending on their individual schedules.

Hell, I also know some people who just flat out only skipped ARR because they've already experienced it and the prospect of leveling through the hellscape that is 2.1-2.55 was almost enough to put them off even bothering with an alt.

If you find jump potions unnecessary that's perfectly fine! However this thread has a thinly veiled sense of derision for those who have used them without considering the individual wants and needs that might have gone into that choice.

But i dun wanna spend 4 days on my alt doing all this stoof...

I jumped my Balmung toon to 60 whm and to SB. It's fine. I have white mage leveled on my main and other alts. Jump potions are fine in my view.

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Originally Posted by LalaRu

Basically, is that jump potions doesn't are detrimental to the game, because how easily you can get 'thru the content today. And maybe this also some kind of invite to play, and enjoy, all the game without skipping parts of it because the "fear" to be slow on catching up is quite misplaced.

Edit: and as Quintina and Lilseph pointed up, if you play so low as a couple hours a day or less, you really don't need to "skip" anything, because at that rate you cannot think to keep up with the "front lines".

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Okay, let me re-phrase: I dont understand what your "target audience" is. People who are buying jump potions to skip the MSQ (or leveling process, depending on what kind of potion we're talking about) for the first time and not for an alt character arent the one reading the forums anyways.
The people here are most likely the ones who are dedicated to the game anyways, like you and me and who wouldnt consider buying a jump potion for that reason to begin with.

Ofc no one needs a jump potion. Some people may still want them. And as long as they look up how to play before entering content, thats fine. We dont have to share their views and choice, but we also dont get to tell them "You dont need this". If thats how they're having fun with the game, thats alright. Its legit not wanting to play through the story - odd choice and nothing I understand, but legit. Just because you dont want/need to skip the story because you enjoy playing it and have enough time on your hands, doesnt mean that everyone shares that. What they do after they've skipped the story... is up to them. Maybe they cant keep up and quit eventually - if they want to waste some money before then... their choice. Maybe they get into the game once they've reached the more intresting parts (lets face it: ARR-story had such terrible length in it your example... and all the time people around you are doing all this "cool stuff" and are talking about raids, and primals and dungeons and gear that you cant get to for at least another 3 months) and up their playtime or find ways to succed.

Bottomline: No one might need a jump potion. But no one needs chocolate either and I'll still go and grab some now. Because I want to.

I mean that’s kind of a long time. Thats close to 100 hours of playtime. It’s not like you can play for 4-5 hours a day and be done after four days. Plus someone brand new to the game is probably going to take longer than someone going through on a second+ character.

Anyway, I think it’s strange to want to skip huge chunks of the game regardless, especially if you are brand new to the game. Isn’t playing the game the whole point of the game? It’s not s race.

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Originally Posted by Tempest222

I mean that’s kind of a long time. Thats close to 100 hours of playtime. It’s not like you can play for 4-5 hours a day and be done after four days. Plus someone brand new to the game is probably going to take longer than someone going through on a second+ character.

Anyway, I think it’s strange to want to skip huge chunks of the game regardless, especially if you are brand new to the game. Isn’t playing the game the whole point of the game?

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It is if you have no one waiting for you, but if you have friends you want to play with /now/ and they're already max level it can be discouraging to certain people to have several dozens of hours worth of play game that they need to bridge before they and their friends are at the same level. It isn't the case for everything and the beauty of FF is that you can always have the other friends level alongside the newbie and take them through the content. Yet not everyone is willing to wait.

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Originally Posted by LalaRu

proof

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Lawl.

No, that's not what the word "proof" means. You actually proved that the MSQ takes an egregiously long time and more than most people will ever want to grind through, especially while their friends are waiting at level cap.

Jump potions are here to stay. Deal with it.

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Originally Posted by Enla

If you find jump potions unnecessary that's perfectly fine! However this thread has a thinly veiled sense of derision for those who have used them without considering the individual wants and needs that might have gone into that choice.

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This.

I thought the whinging about jump potions "ruining the game" was over but I guess not. This elitist nonsense about "everyone should be forced to play the story because it hurts my love for FF if they don't" needs to die in a fire...

Can't speak for everyone, but 96 hours of my life is worth well more than $25.

Not sure anybody has ever argued they "need" a jump potion.

"Want" one? Lots of people. I know someone who doesn't want to level another job because they have more money than time and 1-50 is boring as all hell to level because you have so few abilities.

That's the target market for jump potions, at the end of the day.

Well, the point was about the blame put on the potions about player skills level is quite misplaced, but I didn't made it clear in OP. My bad.

Did a bit of OP edit. Nothing against the potions themselves, they are a huge time shortcut and I've nothing against it.

Most people who buy jump potions are alts of people who have already done the grind before anyway.

I recently rush-leveled through 1-70 on a new character, and I was only a little over 5 days play time (1-50 on war and 50-70 on samurai) by the time I completed Stormblood. But you also have to consider opportunity cost here. For example, at the federal minimum wage of $7.25/hour in the United States, 5 days (120 hours) of work is $870 - enough to buy 17 story skips to SB+level 60. A lot of people would probably rather pick up a few hours of extra work and spend some of that 120 hours spending time with friends and family or other hobbies rather than repeat the MSQ wall a second or third time or fourth time.

I personally enjoy the grind, though. D:

4 days? As in 96 hours of in-game time?
Yea, I think that backfired. I'm not considering using any jump potions, but I only get a few hours of gaming in each day, and ~100 hours for me is easily a month's gaming. If I was considering making an alt, I'd definitely consider a jump potion now that I'd be looking at 100 hours to get up to speed...

Only jump potion I would buy is if it let me jump to the moon. Otherwise not worth buying.

I mean I have friends that don't care about the story and just wanted to do endgame, they bought jump potions are are actively raiding and leveling alts so to them jump potions were great as they didn't have to invest time and skipping cut scenes. It's why SE came out with them because there's a market for people who don't wanna sit through hours of story and cut scenes and wanna jump into the action with their friends.

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Originally Posted by Awful

I mean I have friends that don't care about the story and just wanted to do endgame, they bought jump potions are are actively raiding and leveling alts so to them jump potions were great as they didn't have to invest time and skipping cut scenes. It's why SE came out with them because there's a market for people who don't wanna sit through hours of story and cut scenes and wanna jump into the action with their friends.

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I agree. I'm glad that they're there for those who just want to join people in the endgame, but at the same time, I'm glad that they're a paid item because that acts as a deterrence so people aren't just skipping willy nilly.

To be honest they kind of are "needed"

The entire MSQ is mandatory and especially through ARR contains a hell of a lot of fluff quests that bear no relevance to the plot itself.

there are for example 422 (if I recall) main scenario quests before you even unlock storm blood. at present there 555 MSQ quests I think upto the end of the current patch. that's easily going to be well over 600 when 5.0 lands. the hurdle for newer players only gets bigger and bigger.

you wont entice many players into 5.0 for example if they have to do over 600 quests before they can even begin to play 5.0 stuff...

and its only going to get worse as more and more expansions come out. 6.0 probably be 800 msq quests by then... maybe even more...

if they keep gating everything behind the main scenario then jump potions are practically a necessity if you want to attract fresh players.

they're also a nice option to players who want alts and things. one of the biggestthings that stopped me having a second character was that massive msq grind. being able to skip 422 quests for £15 absolute bargain. like £0.03 for every quest skipped.

They wouldn't be needed if they put effort in fixing the main story, but they would rather

A) lose players who lose interest in the story and aren't willing to pay extra

B) make money off those who are willing to

This game would be in a much better stance with player retention if they could put just a bit more effort in the leveling process.

I feel you should probably also point out that you created that character on Zodiark and as such you had the "road to 60" bonus (double exp). You wouldn't have needed to do any of the side quests as the main scenario alone would have been enough exp to keep up with the msq.

As others have said, this also isn't your first time playing, you levelled a class you already did on your main character as well as you don't have to waste time reading things or watching cutscenes. Even with road to 60 buff it takes new players considerably longer to clear the ARR story, let alone HW too.

Only 4 days and 1 hour? Yeah ... I think the most effective counter-argument here is ... the argument itself. 97 hours are helluva lot of times.
Using economic argument, an hour or two working minimum wage job will earn enough to cover the expense of that jump potion.

For some reason reading the OP's post gives me this image of a millionaire preaching to the poor saying they don't need a lot of money to be happy, citing himself "only" earn $10,000 a week.

This topic brought up a scary thought about myself, now that I think about it, some years ago I managed to get 3 characters through the 2.0 story line. My forum avatar is the first one, and as you can see he's stuck at lvl50 while I took the other 2 forward. Thank you OP, you made me feel ashamed of myself about the time that I wasted @_@

I would buy job jump potion if it didn't make me skip quests.

I’m kind of confused by this post. Is this anti story jump potions or jus jump potions as a whole

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Originally Posted by alimdia

They wouldn't be needed if they put effort in fixing the main story, but they would rather

A) lose players who lose interest in the story and aren't willing to pay extra

B) make money off those who are willing to

This game would be in a much better stance with player retention if they could put just a bit more effort in the leveling process.

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I couldn't agree more. Every time there is an expansion the previous story quest should be trimmed and refined so that you do not have completely new people slogging it out for 3 months to reach your new stuff. Can't blame the database or servers for this one Yoshi P so hire a person and get crackin. :)

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Originally Posted by Hugowulf

I’m kind of confused by this post. Is this anti story jump potions or jus jump potions as a whole

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She edited the OP after two pages of discussion, so I'm not really sure what it's about now.

Let's just get rid of jump potions and have OP level everyone's character that wants to jump.

OP - I think you missed the point.

If someone wants to shell out money to level up instantly..that's their prerogative.
They may have little to no time....life..job..kids..you name it.

I fail to see what the purpose of this thread is in light of this.

Do I agree with such actions? No - but who I am to stop them for spending money on such things. Its not game breaking...if anything they are likely making an alt.

Now if its first char? That's sad...but not much I can do about it.

Making the MSQ optional would be great. By having dungeons and raids unlocked based on level rather than story progression (Like WoW) would go a long way towards having people level thier character up to current content without the slog of the MSQ. There still should be some incentive towards completing the MSQ though. I wonder how difficult would it be for the devs to make the MSQ optional..

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Originally Posted by Driium

Making the MSQ optional would be great. By having dungeons and raids unlocked based on level rather than story progression (Like WoW) would go a long way towards having people level thier character up to current content without the slog of the MSQ. There still should be some incentive towards completing the MSQ though. I wonder how difficult would it be for the devs to make the MSQ optional..

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This game is interesting because of the storyline. And while being forced to follow the red thread at all times, it is there to build up the story for you and everything around it.

We don't need this 'you hit level x, now you can dump everything and get to the next zone/expansion without repercussions'.

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Originally Posted by Driium

Making the MSQ optional would be great. By having dungeons and raids unlocked based on level rather than story progression (Like WoW) would go a long way towards having people level thier character up to current content without the slog of the MSQ. There still should be some incentive towards completing the MSQ though. I wonder how difficult would it be for the devs to make the MSQ optional..

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It is an option...its called buy the Mogstation item that's appropriate.

Bought every jump potion buyable on Mog Station (except for the ARR-only jump potion). No regrets.

I did edited the OP quite fast to make clear what the point is.
But you know, it is common read just last comments and comment to them, so the argument kept derailed much. Confused people are the ones reading all the OP (another common thing is stop reading something after a couple sentences) but they then see everyone talking of another thing.

tl;dr:
- nothing against jump potions;
- point was, the unnecessary pointing towards the jump potions as a reason for unskilled players.

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Originally Posted by LalaRu

I did edited the OP quite fast

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Well, there's a huge difference between starting off with all the skills learned already (jump potion) that having to learn them level by level (no jump potion). Again, your time is misleading, there are many things you didn't factor, so a regular player might take way longer than that, even counting the afk times. Even though bad players and lazy players will be bad and lazy respectively, there are higher chances for people who didn't use their jump potion, to have a bigger understanding of their jobs' actions.

This is talking about the level jump potions. The story skip potion would also skip the low level dungeons, where you have a limited range of skills available. They also serve as a form of tutorial. By no means I'm implying that players that go through the MSQ (dungeons included) will be always better than the potion people, but like I said above: Chances are higher for the non-pot to have a better understaing of their job.

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Originally Posted by LalaRu

<snip>

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Your topic is "No Need for Jump Potions"

You say you can get to your level in a few days.
Then you proceed to say that people accuse people of being "bad" for using them.

All I see here is a troll against jump potion use.

If this was about discrimination against jump potion use..then you should have said so up-front.

Say what you mean....don't assume we can read your mind.

I don't like them (jump potions) - but if I was going to create an alt - Id use one perhaps - but that's the only reason. Beyond that...its a legitimate option of use.
And as for the "bad players" issue? I accuse them of "not asking for help" or "being stupid lazy about learning" - Jump Potions are the furthest from my mind in terms of root causes.

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Originally Posted by NephthysVasudan

Your topic is "No Need for Jump Potions"

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Cannot edit title.

Red Mage and Samurai start at 50. Most people people i see playing those seem to know their jobs pretty well. Jump potions take you to 60 with is certainly higher although skilled jobs like healing and tanking do require a good understanding of their skill sets to avoid disasters. I've seen a lot of skippers and the vast majority of them seem to do just fine.