Mayhap, naught and out of place poetic dialogue

Is it just me or is there an excessive use of the words "mayhap and naught" in the main scenario quests? So much so that it sounds forced, especially in scenes where there is supposed to be lighthearted comedy, the poetic structure ruins the atmosphere.
Let me know what ya'll think about it.

I don’t mind it. Gives the setting its own feel and vocabulary instead of just being 100% modern English in a not-modern world.

Plus you pick up interesting new language details like “aught” being the opposite of “naught”. It does sometimes need a dictionary on hand though!

It's something that always bothers me about a lot of the translations of some of the earlier Final Fantasy games (and RPGs in general).
It seems to be the shorthand to use a bastardized version of 'old' English to denote a fantasy world removed from modern times, or an older character 'out of touch' with 'modern' times - Setzer in VI being the most egregious example. Not pointing fingers but this is typically an US ideal of how the UK population spoke back in Elizabethan times (and I imagine a lot still think we do). It tends to be used so heavy-handedly that it instantly pulls me out of the narrative - as a native English speaker I find it really annoying in the most part.
FFXIV, to be fair, isn't quite so bad with it - but dialogue (especially translation) is typically quite difficult, especially if done in a team.

You can still talk old english and not overuse words, and old english can be spoken casually without having that poetic feel to it. I don't want it to be modern either :)

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Originally Posted by ChillyViking

You can still talk old english and not overuse words, and old english can be spoken casually without having that poetic feel to it. I don't want it to be modern either :)

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The confusion lies in the conflation of what 'old' English was spoken and what is actually just poetic. There is a conflation between what people think was actual dialogue in Elizabethan England and what was verse written by Shakespeare.
If the goal is to make everyone sound like they are in a play then fair - but if not it just comes across as stilted and overly-dramatic when used in normal conversation.

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Originally Posted by ChillyViking

You can still talk old english and not overuse words, and old english can be spoken casually without having that poetic feel to it. I don't want it to be modern either :)

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Technically it goes somewhere between Middle English and Shakespearian/Elizabethan era English.

Old English is much closer to Welsh, because apparently it wasn't until Chaucer that vowels were invented in the English language.

"Mayhap" and "naught" still see a fair bit of use today, and I don't find them nearly as offensive as the use of "ever" to mean always. That one will ever sound forced to me, in any setting.

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Originally Posted by Kazrah

Technically it goes somewhere between Middle English and Shakespearian/Elizabethan era English.

Old English is much closer to Welsh, because apparently it wasn't until Chaucer that vowels were invented in the English language.

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Old English has very little in common with Welsh.
English is (and was) a Germanic language and as such is related to languages such as German, Dutch, and Swedish. This was even more obvious in Old English before the Battle of Hastings and subsequent influence of French.
Welsh on the other hand is a Celtic language.

The archaic English used by certain NPCs in FFXIV is neither Old English, nor Middle English. It is Modern English. Even at its worst it is a variant of Shakespearian/Elizabethan era English with modernized spelling.

It is worth noting that not all NPCs use archaic/poetic forms of English.
Only a few of them do, and even then to varying degrees. (Urianger is by far the worst offender here.)
Majority of NPCs speak fairly normal English, with a few using other variants of reducing comprehensibility (Rogue's guild NPCs for example who have their own dialect/jargon.)

We must needs be away towards our destination.

*stoic nod*


I don't know, I kind of enjoy the difference between the vocabulary of Urianger and Lyse.

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Originally Posted by MistakeNot

Old English has very little in common with Welsh.

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Okay then, it sounds like Welsh. Otherwise, fair enough.

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Originally Posted by Rongway

"Mayhap" and "naught" still see a fair bit of use today, and I don't find them nearly as offensive as the use of "ever" to mean always. That one will ever sound forced to me, in any setting.

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what are you talking about? none of this happens

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Originally Posted by ChillyViking

You can still talk old english and not overuse words, and old english can be spoken casually without having that poetic feel to it. I don't want it to be modern either :)

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^ that

Please send succor




Anon

and today in "people think your speech patterns are odd and old". last time it was anyroad

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Originally Posted by DracotheDragon

and today in "people think your speech patterns are odd and old". last time it was anyroad

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The issue is the overuse of a word to the point it becomes obnoxious, did you even read the thread?

As a side thought, "Pray return to the Waking Sands" was overused to the point of wanting to bash your head into a wall... /shudder

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Originally Posted by Sekkei

As a side thought, "Pray return to the Waking Sands" was overused to the point of wanting to bash your head into a wall... /shudder

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That one is not bad because of the wording, but because it is so annoyingly inconvenient to travel to the Waking Sands.

'must needs' always gets me.

I think it's kind of like George Lucas dialogue, it looks fine written down, but sounds weird when it's spoken.

I'd rather colloquial flavor text than a character telling me about how freakin lit the Quicksand gets when Momodi's feeling fresh to death.

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Originally Posted by ChillyViking

The issue is the overuse of a word to the point it becomes obnoxious, did you even read the thread?

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yes i read the thread, and in my area where i live it is still somewhat common to the point where i don't find it obnoxious, its like if some character said y'all all the time to me thats obnoxious and to others it isn't, thus my joke.

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Originally Posted by Tridus

We must needs be away towards our destination.

*stoic nod*


I don't know, I kind of enjoy the difference between the vocabulary of Urianger and Lyse.

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Huh? What?

Did someone call me?

It doesn't feel out of place at all to me...and it's incredibly refreshing when compared to the numerous 'fantasy' MMO's that have various NPC's use the same language you'd expect from a modern day teenager.

I think the deal is that using unusual turns of phrases and word choice -consistently- like FFXIV does is that it adds a layer of realism to local, colloquial speech patterns.

"Anyroad" verses "anyway" can be compared to some areas using y'all over "you all" or "you guys," etc. It's a form of flavor text and world building.

It also prevents the game from being dated, something you risk doing if you use regular speech patterns of the day, or sound stagnant and lifeless, something you risk if you go for perfect, formal speech.

Even more, the one character that goes deep into the poetic, archaic method of speech has his quirk treated like a running gag. Why does Urianger make purple prose into a lifestyle? Who knows!

Honestly, I find the heavily accented speech employed by most Limsa Lominsa based characters much harder to read than any character who uses "anyroad" over "anyway."

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Originally Posted by Theodric

It doesn't feel out of place at all to me...and it's incredibly refreshing when compared to the numerous 'fantasy' MMO's that have various NPC's use the same language you'd expect from a modern day teenager.

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part of me just imagend the a quest with Urianger and moenbryda
"for sooth i send ye to deliver.... this rad as pic to my bae yo"

and i dont know why but this is amusing to me.

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Originally Posted by Kazrah

Technically it goes somewhere between Middle English and Shakespearian/Elizabethan era English.

Old English is much closer to Welsh, because apparently it wasn't until Chaucer that vowels were invented in the English language.

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Had a copy of Beowulf with modern English on one page and Olde English on facing page. The Old English would have been undecipherable.

They don't say "aught" and "naught" as much as NPCs do in Dragon's Dogma. Swear it's like every other word in that game.

"There's aught here!" - Madeleine 846748957 times during her first quest

Mayhap, thy thread is naught art looking for

"Pray Mayhaps you are in need of succor?" Every time I say oh please yes and they give me a glass of milk or a stupids blanket! If you cannot trust a kind stranger to give you the candy they promised, well I just feel sad for Eorzia.

In all seriousness, I do have a problem when they attempt to use accents in their speech bubbles. When I was on some quest in Limsa it's barely readable.

Jacke for me is the worst offender. The ROG quests are my least favorite because I couldn't understand WTF was going on because Jacke can't talk worth poop.

Hahaha yeah, the rogues' guild dialogue is weird. Does anyone know if that's based on some sort of real slang or if the scriptwriters have just made it up themselves?

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Hahaha yeah, the rogues' guild dialogue is weird. Does anyone know if that's based on some sort of real slang or if the scriptwriters have just made it up themselves?

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Based on Cockney accent.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Hahaha yeah, the rogues' guild dialogue is weird. Does anyone know if that's based on some sort of real slang or if the scriptwriters have just made it up themselves?

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The Rogues Guild (well Jacke at least) use a real dialect called Thieves Cant

I rather liked the Rogue Guild's dialogue :c It gave me alternate words for my daggers and other things that I can randomly use lol

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Originally Posted by Apoptomon

The Rogues Guild (well Jacke at least) use a real dialect called Thieves Cant

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Ah, that’s cool. I figured it must have come from somewhere.

:O It's real? This is going to be awesome! Google, my friend, we're going on a dictionary adventure to gather more words! /zoom

Mayhap there is, but there's naught we can do about it.

This is why when listening to cutscenes with audio dialogue, Japanese works fine with me.