Astrologian Sects!! Help

what sect should you use in 4 man content?

I use Diurnal mostly but it really depends on you playstyle and the content itself. Noct is good for pulls since you shouldn't regen a tank that is pulling, but don't do as much outside of that for the most part imo.

So give them both a try and see which you prefer, there really isn't one that is better, there is just one that is better for you.

Try out both and see which you prefer. Personally, I use Noct when tank is pulling trash mobs, shields works immediately to absorb damage while regen tick takes a bit of time and usually wasted when overhealing. For bosses I use Diurnal, tanks don't get hit way hard here so the regen tick+bit of healing are enough to keep them alive while giving some time to DPS away.

The sect doesn't really matter that much for 4 man content. So choose what you prefer or want to get better at. I personally use Diurnal Sect, because shields aren't really needed in 4 man content and reggen are overall more efficient in terms of potency. Furthermore extending reggen effects with time dilation or Celestial Opposition make much more sense, cause the shield effect will be erased after the dmg taken is higher than the shield applied and the 30 seconds timer of the shields is more than enough for that to happen. This means extending shields in most cases is useless.

PS: You could use pre shields with noct and then switch to duirnal before a fight, but that isn't needed in 4 man content. But it is a tactic people use for raids for instance.

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Originally Posted by KinnisonArc

Try out both and see which you prefer. Personally, I use Noct when tank is pulling trash mobs, shields works immediately to absorb damage while regen tick takes a bit of time and usually wasted when overhealing. For bosses I use Diurnal, tanks don't get hit way hard here so the regen tick+bit of healing are enough to keep them alive while giving some time to DPS away.

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Technically and strictly speaking thats not true, because buffs including shields are activated with the server ticks and those happen every 3 seconds. This means even if you see the buff in the list already, the effect could still be not up and then the attack of the mob/boss will calculate the dmg without the buff applied. Thats something to really keep in mind among others for mitigation skills including shields. You have to apply them 3 seconds early at best, so they actually work everytime. If you get lucky you will get the effect instant, because a server tick was just about to happen, but if you are unlucky it will take up to 3 seconds.

i use nocturnal sect because i am used to sch's shields and i hate pre-pull regen :3 but if you don't pre-pull regen and comfortable with whm's playstyle more, you may want to go diurnal. Both are good but i think diurnal is more healer friendly because it has aoe and single target regens and takes a bit of pressure off the healer maybe? Well it depends what you like more tbh and which you are comfortable with. But personally i think diurnal is more healer friendly if you accidently pre-pull regen and annoy tanks :P Anyway, it really depends on you and both sects have their own strengths but i think if you are unsure about nocturnal sect, i would recommend going with diurnal and once you get used to AST more, you can try nocturnal.

Diurnal Sect has numerically superior effect, but will result in more overheal than Nocturnal Sect. However, as era1Ne points out, the Diurnal HoTs are subject to extension by Dilation and Opposition, and that makes it the go-to sect when you want to spam Gravity for a whole forty seconds at a time.

If you know you can pull it off before the tank is in aggro range of the next encounter, you can switch to Nocturnal immediately after the last mob dies, shield the tank, and switch back to Diurnal. Probably no one will fault you for not switching back and forth for this, though.

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Originally Posted by era1Ne

PS: You could use pre shields with noct and then switch to duirnal before a fight

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This is what I'll do.

Since you specified 4-man content, I get more mileage out of swapping to Diurnal after shielding between pulls and letting HoTs do their thing while I (lolAST) DPS. The shields feel so incredibly brief when the tank is getting hit by 4+ mobs that I almost feel obligated to reapply it after every other Gravity/Malefic and that just throws me off. That, and like already mentioned, when I use Time Dilation (or even Cel.Opp.) I'd prefer if the target(s) have HoTs up being extended too.

I use Noct shields for 4 mans but I main a sch so that feels better for me personally.

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Originally Posted by era1Ne

PS: You could use pre shields with noct and then switch to duirnal before a fight, but that isn't needed in 4 man content. But it is a tactic people use for raids for instance..

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I'll have to try that. I'm leveling my ast atm. Enjoying it despite myself.

Shielding in noct then swapping to diurnal is most efficient pre-pull.

Diurnal is best for fights. Hit up the tank with your hots once he has agro and dps your heart out. Makes for faster dungeon clears as well as more fun imo.

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Originally Posted by Chortle

Shielding in noct then swapping to diurnal is most efficient pre-pull.

Diurnal is best for fights. Hit up the tank with your hots once he has agro and dps your heart out. Makes for faster dungeon clears as well as more fun imo.

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You beat me to it. Most AST I have seen don't sect dance during any content. I do it all the time and it really is the most efficient thing to do. IF the tanks gets you the chance since you can't switch while in combat.

I preferred Noct, the sheild buffers and increased healing made pulling big more manageable on my end.

But seriously, learn both, go with your preference. Neither one has an endge of the other.

Biurnal: I shield between pulls to buy me DPS time, then go Diurnal for the rest, to buy me MOAR DPS TIME!!! Put an Aspected Bennie on the tank (aka, Red Mage), and I'm good to GraviSpam!!!!!!

Depending on the boss, I'll switch to Noct in a 4-man.

Diurnal Sect
Benefic: 440
Helios: 330
Benefic II: 715
Aspected Benefic: 1144 + speedBonus' (110% × (200 + 6 × (140 + speedBonus)))
Aspected Helios: 660 + speedBonus' (110% × (200 + 10 × (40 + speedBonus)))

Nocturnal Sect
Benefic: 460
Helios: 345
Benefic II: 747
Aspected Benefic: 805 (115% × (200 + 250% × 200))
Aspected Helios: 431 (115% × (150 + 150% × 150))


Diurnal Aspected Benefic heals for at least 339 more potency than Nocturnal Aspected Benefic. Diurnal Aspected Helios heals for at least 229 more potency per target than Nocturnal Aspected Helios.

Most dungeon bosses shouldn't even really require more than five or six GCDs devoted to healing, thanks to the relatively low cooldown on Dignity. Therefore, Diurnal Sect is superior to Nocturnal Sect against most single targets and some small groups.

But if you're fighting anything that can do enough damage to break your shield within 10 seconds, like a deathwish-sized trash pull or a raid boss, Nocturnal Aspected Benefic's value increases because Diurnal Aspected Benefic requires four ticks to beat Nocturnal Aspected Benefic, whereas a fresh shield gives the full benefit every time.

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Originally Posted by Ametrine

But seriously, learn both

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Still this, though. AST+AST happens with fair frequency in DF, so it's good to know how to play both.

I'd say go diurnal if you struggle with healing. Be careful about pré pull HoT.
I personally prefer diurnal.

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Originally Posted by Cyrocco

Noct for Regular Pulls, Diurn for Bosses.

My reasoning behind this is that during any (most) regular pulls, the tank is the only target taking damage, Nocts potency boost is nice, I can normally ignore the tank after casting Aspected for the majority of the pull, and because the shield is an instant cast, it lets me react quickly to the tank taking spike damage (More time in Cleric), and an Aspected -> Essential -> Aspected is a great recovery combo.

Now, the reason I use Diurnal for bosses is because the universal pattern among bosses, is that the damage is widespread, however, in most cases, the AoE damage doesn't require a real heal, and the regen is more than enough for the DPS, so I always open with Helios -> Benefic on Tank, and go straight into Cleric and basically ignore everyone.

Ultimately, I love running like this because it effectively uses BOTH stances during a standard dungeon.

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My playstyle is leave me alone so I can DPS. Shields let me protect the tank, do other things, and this playstyle is especially nice for big pull runs.

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Originally Posted by Maku

You beat me to it. Most AST I have seen don't sect dance during any content. I do it all the time and it really is the most efficient thing to do. IF the tanks gets you the chance since you can't switch while in combat.

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That is precisely why I don't stance dance. I also find it really annoying to play.

In 4-mans it is pretty much up to preference. I personally shield pre pull before swapping to diurnal, as I find stacking HoTs to be effective and allows me more room to DPS then sticking with Noct the entire run. Shielding pre pull minimizes the need to heal mid pull, which can help keep aggro off you and takes some pressure off healing.

HoTs>shields. Shields are pretty useless unless you need them.