Level sync

Level Sync!!! (Can We Have it Please ?) it would be so helpful , when you can't set up a party because 95% of your server has cnj and thm to 50... please :)..... What do you guys think?

I believe they said somewhere that they have intentions to add it at some point, but I'm too lazy to find the dev quote. As usual, don't expect it anytime soon.

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Originally Posted by Jadi

I'm not sure I'm a big fan of level sync.. Was the beginning of the end for FFXI.

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Huh QUE!?!?!

No thanks we dont need level sync.

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No Thank you. I do not want.

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Originally Posted by Javiano

Level Sync!!! (Can We Have it Please ?) it would be so helpful , when you can't set up a party because 95% of your server has cnj and thm to 50... please :)..... What do you guys think?

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yeah sure, level sync would be ok but I want to see which lvl 50 will come level their job with you even if level sync was there since you wont gain exp for anything once you hit 50...

Merit points (or something along the lines) {can I have it?}

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Originally Posted by Mamba

yeah sure, level sync would be ok but I want to see which lvl 50 will come level their job with you even if level sync was there since you wont gain exp for anything once you hit 50...

Merit points (or something along the lines) {can I have it?}

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Well, clearly, there needs to also be less jackasses in the game. I mean, who in their right mind isn't to help a person in need?

We do need level sync. That is all. Would like to know when they plan on implementing it though :) I'm glad they mentioned it was coming

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Originally Posted by Skies

Well, clearly, there needs to also be less jackasses in the game. I mean, who in their right mind isn't to help a person in need?

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Sorry did I understand you wrong but did you call me a jackass for pointing out that a party full of 50s would like to have an incentive to stay in exp party for x amount of time, other than just helping a fellow player out?

How selfish of me to actually get something out of my playtime...

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Originally Posted by Mamba

Sorry did I understand you wrong but did you call me a jackass for pointing out that a party full of 50s would like to have an incentive to stay in exp party for x amount of time, other than just helping a fellow player out?

How selfish of me to actually get something out of my playtime...

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Oh, I didn't call you a jackass, Mamba. I called the party of 50s a jackass :D
Really, why would you need any incentive to hang out with some fellow player? That's a wholly alien concept to me

Devs have already said its coming.
To the doomsayers, claiming it's the end of worlds.
Try to use logic before you repeat the same BS said in all of the other previous threads about this.
EVERY SINGLE complaint EVER said about Lv Sync, had NOTHING to do with the concept of Lv Sync itself. Just complaints about OTHER game mechanics and features (or lack there of) which caused the issues they complained about. Including every single one mentioned here.

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Originally Posted by Skies

Oh, I didn't call you a jackass, Mamba. I called the party of 50s a jackass :D
Really, why would you need any incentive to hang out with some fellow player? That's a wholly alien concept to me

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Ah ok, Sorry about that then :D
I do actually already help the nooblettes out in my linkshell quite a bit with stuff like getting their choco and killing NMs for their gear etc.
I don't think I could endure hours of grinding in level sync party though if in the end the only reward would be my friend getting from lvl 10 to 20.

You know, I would love level sync. But I'd really like to see them do something to prevent people from using level sync 1-50. I can think of at least a few people in XI who got their first 75 exclusively in level sync parties, and then wandered around with all of their skills at the caps for the late 20s and early 30s.

Except, in XIV, we don't even have skill levels to make people want to play at (or near) their actual level. So really, there's nothing keeping people from hitting level 50 without ever playing anything past level 15.

Even though people will want to try out their shiny new skillz, I'd like to see some sort of reason to at least be near your level. I.e. protection against the lv.75 ninja that sent me a /tell of "What's SATA?" when he started doing endgame with one of my shells.

I loved Level Sync in FFXI - it really helped reduce the time it took to form a functioning XP party. And yeah, Yoshi and the devs have confirmed its coming (in some shape or form).

I don't really understand some players' arguments against it; my guess is maybe they had a few bad experiences with it or have heard some unconfirmed rumors about it or something. Not saying it'll be the "miracle patch" by any means, but its the only way to get 6 - 8 players who are LFG and gave a 20+ level gap to be able to party with each other to gain optimal xp.

No thanks thinking about it level sync did mess up FFXI for everyone,.

Level sync will be great! I miss being able to join in a party that's below my lvl for some fun. I guess once you're 50 the only incentive of doing it is for fun and for materia? :P
I'm definitely for it~

I think that rather than level-sync, it would be nice if there were nice zones 'light' parties could grind in that didn't necessarily require a mage. Because yes, it is currently a little rough to find a lower level healer atm. However, I am also against level sync. I always personally thought it cheapened the exping process. Also, since at least currently you can solo leves for decent sp, be power-leveled quickly and easily to over rank 30 etc. I just don't see an actual need for it atm. There usually are sb/exp parties rank 30+ on my server and it doesn't seem like they are having tank/mage issues when recruiting for them.

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Originally Posted by Jadi

As one of the "Doomsayers" ( oh how dramatic :: roll eyes :: ) .. I'd just like to point out that changing one aspect of the game will have effects on other aspects, those who think logically about the interrelationships of game mechanics see this.

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Right, and none of the negative features of Lv Sync are present in XIV.

Anything else is merely an opinion of the person.

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Hum... I never played XI, I have no idea how it works there BUT, I played City of Heroes which features level sync as well (both ways, both lowering the high-level's level, called examplaring, and raising the low-level's level, called sidekicking).

It does't intereferes in any way with levelling? Because both the level-synched and the normal-levelled persons continue to earn XP in the same rate as if they were fighting level-appropriate foes, so even if my L10 hero is sidekicked to level 50 I still earn experience at the same rate I would at level 10, so there is no such thing as sped-up levelling. All it means is that Ican hang hour with my overlevelled buddies.

How DID it work in XI so that you can explain it to a poor old me?

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Originally Posted by Skies

Hum... I never played XI, I have no idea how it works there BUT, I played City of Heroes which features level sync as well (both ways, both lowering the high-level's level, called examplaring, and raising the low-level's level, called sidekicking).

It does't intereferes in any way with levelling? Because both the level-synched and the normal-levelled persons continue to earn XP in the same rate as if they were fighting level-appropriate foes, so even if my L10 hero is sidekicked to level 50 I still earn experience at the same rate I would at level 10, so there is no such thing as sped-up levelling. All it means is that Ican hang hour with my overlevelled buddies.

How DID it work in XI so that you can explain it to a poor old me?

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Very much like "examplaring," I think. Your party would choose a member whose level would become the maximum level for all members. For example, if a six people leveled 36, 40, 56, 75, 80, and 95 were to party up, they could select any member to sync their levels to. If they chose 36, everyone would be lowered to 36; if they chose 56, anyone higher than 56 would be lowered, while those below would remain their actual levels.

Some aspects of gear (defense, for example) would scale with the level, when wearing gear that was above your level (under restrictions), while other aspects (Healing Magic +10%, etc.) wouldn't function at all.

I have a question about the CoH system, then... what was the point in leveling up if you could raise your level just by joining up with a friend? <.>;

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Originally Posted by Javiano

Level Sync!!! (Can We Have it Please ?) it would be so helpful , when you can't set up a party because 95% of your server has cnj and thm to 50... please :)..... What do you guys think?

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No.. Level Sync destroyed FFXI.

If you hate to XP so bad, don't play an MMO, it's part of the game.

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Originally Posted by Mychael

Very much like "examplaring," I think. Your party would choose a member whose level would become the maximum level for all members. For example, if a six people leveled 36, 40, 56, 75, 80, and 95 were to party up, they could select any member to sync their levels to. If they chose 36, everyone would be lowered to 36; if they chose 56, anyone higher than 56 would be lowered, while those below would remain their actual levels.

Some aspects of gear (defense, for example) would scale with the level, when wearing gear that was above your level (under restrictions), while other aspects (Healing Magic +10%, etc.) wouldn't function at all.

I have a question about the CoH system, then... what was the point in leveling up if you could raise your level just by joining up with a friend? <.>;

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Content is level-locked, so you cannot actually perform any content by yourself if you don't raise your base level. Also acquisition of abilities is ALSO level-based and if you do not raise your level you do not get new abilities. And while a Sidekicked character won't learn any new abilities if they get their level raised (so basically their stats are raised to those of that level), an Exemplared character will loose all abilities they learned past the level they've been exemplared to (essentially the character is rolled back to that level).

So yeah, to learn new abilities and to get more powerful 'equipment' (well, it uses ability modifiers instead of actual equipments, but) you need base level, also to progress through history content and to do a lot of the party-based content you do need to raise your base level.

When I played ffxi, the only parties I could find thoughout the entire leveling process were all low level newbie zone ones in the dunes and quifim island. I never got to use/practice my higher level skills, so I would have played terribly if I suddenly managed to get into a level appropriate party.

I truly hope that this game is not forced to implement level sync. I want to see new
scenery/monsters/challenges as I advance in level, and practice my nearly learned abilities.

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Originally Posted by syndori

When I played ffxi, the only parties I could find thoughout the entire leveling process were all low level newbie zone ones in the dunes and quifim island. I never got to use/practice my higher level skills, so I would have played terribly if I suddenly managed to get into a level appropriate party.

I truly hope that this game is not forced to implement level sync. I want to see new
scenery/monsters/challenges as I advance in level, and practice my nearly learned abilities.

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That's what sucked.. Once Level sync was involved you stayed in Qufim until the 60's.. This dosen't make any sense. I had tons of fun leveling my first few jobs (pre level sync) when we were forced to go through different zones, fight different mobs and oh.. ACTUALLY learn how to use our spells/abilities

I can't honestly think of any reason why anyone would want that.

There's enough XP to be had solo all the way to lvl 50 if you seriously could never find a party your level.



If they seriously want to implement a level sync, it needs to be limited IE: you could level sync with someone within 10 levels of yourself. Which would remove the possibility of people never using spells/abilities in xp parties.

I would like some way to play at the same level as a friend. Many people have all level 50's or need a healer for their 30 group. I would like some way to go play with that group. I didn't use level sync in FFXI so I don't know for sure why it sucked, but I like the idea if implemented well.

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Originally Posted by Yelta_Sumasu

I would like some way to play at the same level as a friend. Many people have all level 50's or need a healer for their 30 group. I would like some way to go play with that group. I didn't use level sync in FFXI so I don't know for sure why it sucked, but I like the idea if implemented well.

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I get both sides of this. There's a major issue of what benefit the higher-level players get.

If they get equal benefits to a party their level, areas with optimal setup for exp parties would doubtless begin to see nearly all of the parties. Skill levels (Healing Magic, Dagger, etc.) in XI provided some balance as they would be capped as if you were the sync level. With skill levels abolished from XIV and the only "level" being the class level, there is absolutely no reason for me to not sync down to whatever camp nets the most experience. While not an issue during the explosion of parties that will accompany any massive influx of players, this means that after most people have their 50s, only the "good" camps will ever get used. It makes half of the world seem unused. People who played XI--how many times did you party it up in Rolanberry Fields or the Movalpolos? On top of that, many people will assume that a lv.46 conjurer who will sync down will have more skill than the conjurer their level, and pick the higher-level player over the one that needs the party.

On the other hand, if you nerf anything about the experience for upper-level players, there would be little point in having the system in the first place--while it would be great for those of you who say "I want to help," it might be just worth your time to powerlevel a party, depending on how/what they nerf. This would be fine for now, when there are players who want to help their lower-level friends, and it would remove the risk of misuse/abuse of the system. But later, when the feature should function less as a convenience for the nice players and more as a necessity for the isolated new players months or years after launch/rebirth, letting level sync nerf anything about the leveling process would just leave the aforementioned isolated new players in the same predicament they started with.

Just my two gilz.

+1 do want.

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Originally Posted by Jadi

Isn't that ok or do we not have the ability to disagree?

I think that it's ok to disagree and I do.. I think there are potential negative aspects to it and I'd appreciate it if you considered if there are any and what they may be for a moment.

I mentioned one being the lack of demand for lower level gear. Should we consider this in your opinion? Do we dare ask how this might affect new players?

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Lack of "Demand" for low Lv gear is an issue, and no, not an opinion.
Though I have a completely different view of how an MMO handles this, I will leave that aside, as it's not really applicable.

Me and everyone I play with, pretty much level up solely on the free gear of quests/Leves.

So I can't really say it's TOO big of a deal, since the crafters have another means to level up and make gil (Local Leves, it's how I took up my ARM, and made a butt load in the process.)

Expressing an opinion is fine, but it doesnt help, if it doesn't put any effort to contribute.

It's fine to say "X is a problem! Fix it!"

But honestly, we SHOULD talk about WHY it is a problem, and what are the pros and cons.

Staying in 1 area MIGHT be a problem, but not so much for the people who want to do it, but more so for those who do NOT want to do it.

There are plenty of incentives to go to higher level groups (if possible). And many more could be added.
I for one like higher level content, solely because the number of abilities equipped/available for higher levels make the game less boring, and because my groups became far more efficient.

A sort of "WoW" dungeon system, where you go up the ladder of dungeons, to keep your gear up to date, would inspire people to do higher content.

Those who are syncing down, are doing it for a friend (Similar to PLing) so honestly, a SLIGHT penalty to exp, would be enough incentive to prevent people staying at lower Lvls, when they could go to higher Lv camps, AND once a friend "catches up" in exp, they wont need to use Lv Sync.

Another alternative is to have, 1 person is synced, 1 person is not. A groups could only have 4 synced, 4 not.
If the whole group wants to sync to the lowest for the sake of "staying in exp range of the lowest" then the alternative is a limit to how low you can sync to... like 1-3 or 1-5 levels.

THIS is why I say, "No Lv sync, it's only bad news, end of FFXIV as we know it!" is useless.

"It kills low Lv gear demand!" This doesn't really matter TOO much, compared to XI, where ppl kept stashes of gear for long periods of time, where people will do this even less once jobs are out, and they can't equip abilities from other classes anymore (outside of being a class.)
Honestl;y, if people liek staying at... let's say 20... Lv20 gear will sell better, for lasting so long, AND what hurt FFXIs gear demand almost as much, if not more, was the removal of so many Lv cap fights.
THAT was the real reason anyone should have a decent amount of low Lv gear.

"You never skill up your weapon! it will ruin XIV!" this being waaaaaay to common of a complaint, that is just pointless.

"You stay in one place!" solo is possible, and you are free to go to all of the areas for your level range.
Also XIV is arguably easier at higher levels, than lower, with so many tanking options, and other class options. I could be wrong, but I would assume people would prefer to stay in their Lv range.

All of these things add up, and make the difference.

In XI;
Buy good Lv20 gear, never need to upgrade. Gear is too hard to get. (XIV its easy)

Low Lv mobs are easier. (XIV its either equal or harder. or just less fun)

You can't solo, you need a group, but with so many ppl not playing, or Max Lv, can't get anyone near my Lv to PT. (We can solo, and if the population ever jumps, then it will effect only a small number of people at a time.)

Skill isn't high enough to fight stronger mobs. (No skill for weapons, so this doesn't restrict people to one Lv range.)

My reason for wanting to Lv Sync with my friends or BF, is because I like to experience working WITH them as they level up and play.

Most of my friends dont stay with an MMO long enough to do endgame.

I'd love to make an alt, and keep with them, but they do like to play on their own time (when enjoying the game) and if it's a new character, I'll be too far behind.
If it's my main, I'm too far ahead.
And in this game, I can't make new characters, w/o it costing me money.
Nor do I want to duo as a class I don't enjoy, or doesn't compliment their class.
(Usually do the Tank and Healer duo with my friends, occasionally doing the 2 Ranged CC DD duo.)

Actually, not to debunk your example lightly, but in XI, I can think of many scenarios where higher-level gear was better even under the ridiculous penalties from level sync. If I remember correctly, that Errant Houpp..whatever! I never could spell it!--That errant body piece that I sold after AF+1 was pretty awesome for level sync 30. Contributing to my point about how, without any penalty for sync, high level players might be preferable even to the ones that need a lower-level party.

The effect this will have on players who "stockpile" their gear (I did this in XI) will be almost completely dependent on the effect Level Sync will have on higher-leveled gear. In XI, it was all case-specific; it was still worthwhile to have low-level gear, but it was admittedly never necessary. Having a set for each possible level restriction was a thing of the past (I had a WHM set for every 10 levels until they added level sync), but that's less of a problem with "Level Sync" as it is with the system of gear scaling under level restriction that they added simultaneously. Before that update, the system was simple. You could only wear the gear that you could naturally wear at the level you were restricted to. But, only certain zones and fights were restricted.

In the case of penalties for level sync, the similarity to powerleveling point made is completely valid, but so would be the question of "Why don't you just PL?" Admittedly, (unless we're talking rank 50) your friend would catch up faster if you weren't gaining exp.

Level Sync was also often used as a way to maximize XP. I remember I was lucky enough to meet up with a snobby elitist who invited a member of the perfect level for that E. Ronfaure [S] ladybug camp, and kicked them as soon as they found a rep of the perfect level again. I felt awful, but that was the best xp I'd ever seen (pre-abyssea...) outside of TPburn, manaburn, or a kick@$$ merit party.

As for the assertion that people would rather play in their level range... This is probably true, for their first job to 50. After that, it's going to get more and more like a system of finding the fastest way to 50. That's not wrong, really. But inevitably, not all areas will be created equal, and some will take precedence. As someone else said, this will not pose a problem for those that don't mind staying in the same areas, but will certainly be a problem for those that want to party AND move to a variety of places.

Other than that, I like most of your ideas, but it's just a delicate issue. No matter how SE implements Level Sync (or if they scrap it alltogether) there will be a large number of people upset.


EDIT: I was just laying in my bed thinking--didn't SE put out some caps in XI with their Gold World passes that offered level sync of just one player to their buddies? Guide Beret and... Mandragora Beret?Sprout Beret. Perhaps these items could be obtainable, not signing up with a code from a friend, but just as items with a limited number of uses that could be replenished over time? Maybe a NPC could "recharge" your enchanted item once a day, and it would give 3-10 enchantments, each of which would last the duration of a party?

An item with an enchantment that lowers the levels of their party members to match theirs, or something of the sort?

Yes please to level sync. I'm torn everytime I want to level with a friend and we're over 10 levels apart. PLing is boring and one-sided. I would much rather fight normally WITH them, and you know... play the game.

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Originally Posted by Mychael

EDIT: I was just laying in my bed thinking--didn't SE put out some caps in XI with their Gold World passes that offered level sync of just one player to their buddies? Guide Beret and... Mandragora Beret?Sprout Beret. Perhaps these items could be obtainable, not signing up with a code from a friend, but just as items with a limited number of uses that could be replenished over time? Maybe a NPC could "recharge" your enchanted item once a day, and it would give 3-10 enchantments, each of which would last the duration of a party?

An item with an enchantment that lowers the levels of their party members to match theirs, or something of the sort?

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Ya, I would love to have something like the barrets... but there needs to be a way where you don't need to start a new account. Though I have no idea how, and there might not be a way, w/o the normal Lv sync option.

Idk. I was just thinking maybe like an item that you could charge up with "Enchantment: Restricts Wearer's Level to Target's" That way it wouldn't be unlimited like Level Sync was, and people couldn't "abuse" the system (by changing people they sync to every hour or two), but could still be in 3-4 parties with their friends.

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Originally Posted by Yelta_Sumasu

I would like some way to play at the same level as a friend. Many people have all level 50's or need a healer for their 30 group. I would like some way to go play with that group. I didn't use level sync in FFXI so I don't know for sure why it sucked, but I like the idea if implemented well.

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SE did have such a thing Pre- Level Sync in FFXI. My Husband somehow started my character as a 'buddy' and so we each got a 'sprout cap'. When we both equipped them, it changed his character's level to mine for a set amount of time. They could go about doing something similar to this at some point. Maybe create a mentor system and/or questable item etc. That would maybe help the 'I just wanna be able to help my friends problem' without allowing people to exploit the level-sync system. (If you were helping a friend you wouldn't grind 30-50 at the same camp, but still progress to new camps as your friend gained levels)

IMO level sync was a welcome addition to FFXI and its hardcore party requirements of needing a full PT after level 10 just to level and *needing* a bard or red mage past the mid 40's to get anywhere close to decent exp, it let you fill those gaps a little easier and actually get out and get some exp instead of sitting in jeuno for 8 hours straight hoping a RDM logs on between the levels of 50 and 52 (but not 53 because your whm is only 48 and he'll gimp the exp). It also made all of those level restricted BCNMs and Missions *much* easier for people to help out with and get done when they're above the cap for it.

Honestly, FFXIV is much more solo and small group friendly, and you can still progress on your own as any class while trying to get a PT together, so I don't really see a need for level sync for general leveling purposes. However, I really enjoyed the level capped Missions and BCNMs from FFXI and think bringing them back in tandem with level sync for them would be a great addition to the game.

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Originally Posted by Javiano

Level Sync!!! (Can We Have it Please ?) it would be so helpful , when you can't set up a party because 95% of your server has cnj and thm to 50... please :)..... What do you guys think?

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I was thinking about this the other day on several levels. Although efficiency-wise, the alternatives are:
*Making each party member more responsible for their own healing and enmity management.
*If the traditional tanking class such as Gladiator or Marauder is on the lower level end of the party, for them NOT to tank.
*Fighting slightly less difficult enemies where the focused healing and protective properties of the Conjurer are less needed.
*Be less aggressive in the chain pulling process, mayhaps not reaching Chain #6+, but surviving instead.
*Anyone who leveled up Conjurer previously to cross class the Sacred Prism, Cure, Stoneskin, and Raise spells. This is especially true if their party class is on the lower end.

i.e. in a party of 33~37. 37 is a Lancer. 33 is a Gladiator that also has 50 Conjurer. Due to level difference of the target enemy, level 33 is going to take a lot more damage and will deal a lot less damage. Rather than tanking as a gladiator, arm up on the support abilities, and serve as an impromptu healer.

Level Sync would mayhaps address a different concern, but I think an XP party without power leveling or without a Conjurer is very do-able, where efficiency will always depend on the party and the monsters they're taking on.