Tank TP Regain Please?

So, I know they got rid of invigorate for tanks with SB but feel like having a TP regain skill or would be very beneficial for tanks.

I for one would love invigorate back since I'm on PLD every day and I spam Total Eclipse when I'm fighting a group of mobs. But I either run out of TP or I have to stop attacking entirely to regain TP during the fighting and I feel like it slows down the run a little.

Not to mention that when I ask some melees for gaol they are like...."What"? "I don't have it on my hotbar." Not to mention if the MCHs and BRDs don't bother to use TP restore abilities. >_>;

Has there been any word about them possibly giving tanks a TP restore move at some point in the near future?

Would be very useful to have again. Just saiyan.

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Originally Posted by Usho

So, I know they got rid of invigorate for tanks with SB but feel like having a TP regain skill or would be very beneficial for tanks.

I for one would love invigorate back since I'm on PLD every day and I spam Total Eclipse when I'm fighting a group of mobs. But I either run out of TP or I have to stop attacking entirely to regain TP during the fighting and I feel like it slows down the run a little.

Not to mention that when I ask some melees for gaol they are like...."What"? "I don't have it on my hotbar." Not to mention if the MCHs and BRDs don't bother to use TP restore abilities. >_>;

Has there been any word about them possibly giving tanks a TP restore move at some point in the near future?

Would be very useful to have again. Just saiyan.

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Holy spirit or clemency useage

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Originally Posted by Usho

So, I know they got rid of invigorate for tanks with SB but feel like having a TP regain skill or would be very beneficial for tanks.

I for one would love invigorate back since I'm on PLD every day and I spam Total Eclipse when I'm fighting a group of mobs. But I either run out of TP or I have to stop attacking entirely to regain TP during the fighting and I feel like it slows down the run a little.

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Unless you were playing MRD/GLA, you wouldn't have had Invigorate to begin with, since WAR/PLD/DRK couldn't cross-class it.

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Originally Posted by Usho

Not to mention that when I ask some melees for gaol they are like...."What"? "I don't have it on my hotbar." Not to mention if the MCHs and BRDs don't bother to use TP restore abilities. >_>;

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Bad players shouldn't be a reason to give tanks a TP regen skill.

Why would tanks need TP regain unless they really don't understand TP management? If your struggling with TP you may want to consider a few things;

Are you properly geared? ( under gear is a big issue in some cases if your not at a minimum at par with DPS if they are overpowering you )

Are you panicking? Remember your tank you can set the flow of battle. Don't feel pressure on speed runs.

IF you really need to use markers on mobs so taht DPS can focus on one mob and make it easier.

On mass pulls with PLD, if you are running out of TP and there are a bunch of mobs left, then tbh not enough damage is going out and the dps probably need to step it up or you need to adjust your pulls down to what the group can handle smoothly.

However in most cases like this, you may be left with just a couple mobs or more mobs that have very little health. At this point just pop Req and Holy Spirit the last mobs down. If the healer is low on MP and there is still a decent amount of damage being dealt to you, cast a Clemency or two as needed. In the time that it takes to do those things you should regain enough TP to get out some more Eclipses and finish the pack off.

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Originally Posted by ManuelBravo

Why would tanks need TP regain unless they really don't understand TP management? If your struggling with TP you may want to consider a few things;

Are you properly geared? ( under gear is a big issue in some cases if your not at a minimum at par with DPS if they are overpowering you )

Are you panicking? Remember your tank you can set the flow of battle. Don't feel pressure on speed runs.

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I'm properly geared. My PLD is i328 so gear isn't really a problem. I don't panic on PLD but I'm used to helping out the group with AoE damage if I'm fighting a large group of mobs.

@Nezerius: You're right. I could've sworn tanks had a tp restore skill and or cross class skill like invigorate. o.0

All i'm saying is that it would be nice to have a tp restore skill to help with AoE crowd control as a tank so I don't have to ask a melee or a brd/mch for tp. I just like being useful and help contribute to a quicker run is all.


Edit: @TouchandFeel: True enough there man. I don't usually use Req during trash pulls but I do occasionally use Holy Spirit if there a mob left but I mostly just saved Req and Holy spirit for boss fights. If you mean for filler damage, then yeah I guess I should req and HS more while waiting for TP.

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Originally Posted by Usho

I'm properly geared. My PLD is i328 so gear isn't really a problem. I don't panic on PLD but I'm used to helping out the group with AoE damage if I'm fighting a large group of mobs.

@Nezerius: You're right. I could've sworn tanks had a tp restore skill and or cross class skill like invigorate. o.0

All i'm saying is that it would be nice to have a tp restore skill to help with AoE crowd control as a tank so I don't have to ask a melee or a brd/mch for tp. I just like being useful and help contribute to a quicker run is all.


Edit: @TouchandFeel: True enough there man. I don't usually use Req during trash pulls but I do occasionally use Holy Spirit if there a mob left but I mostly just saved Req and Holy spirit for boss fights. If you mean for filler damage, then yeah I guess I should req and HS more while waiting for TP.

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I PLD i330 and never really have an issue with tp, Clemency adds a nice small buff to enmity. Unless DPS is all over the place, or healers are cure bombing high enmity spells that would explain some of it. You could always make a macro for support request as well :/ You could try using ultimatum as a last resort followed by clemency or a Max potion for a quick boost as well or even right after a pull. Unless your the type of tank that prefers to use sword oath on and shield oath on and off there really shouldn't be a reason for TP shortage. Similar to DRK MP management swapping for riot blade and using Circle of Scorn as soon as it's up helps. May just want to think about your situation. Example are you having TP issues on large pulls lets say 3 sets or are you pulling to end around 5-7 sets? Unless your DPS group is low that can be a reason as well. Prolonging battles will cause TP to really become an issue.

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Originally Posted by Usho

@TouchandFeel: True enough there man. I don't usually use Req during trash pulls but I do occasionally use Holy Spirit if there a mob left but I mostly just saved Req and Holy spirit for boss fights. If you mean for filler damage, then yeah I guess I should req and HS more while waiting for TP.

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Don't get in the bad habit of "saving" your abilities just for boss fights, use all of your tools as much as you can, as best you can. Seriously, boss fights in dungeons are so easy that there is no pressing need to "save" anything for them. Most abilities, such as Req have such a short cooldown that even if you use it during trash, it should be available by the time you get to the boss and would be using it. Sitting on abilities in order to "save" them is just limiting yourself. Even if you may not get full usage out of an ability, it's still better than no use out of an ability because you are "saving" it.

The only time you should be "saving" an ability is because the pack you are fighting is pretty much dead and you are making preparations for the next big pull.

I'd like a TP restorative skill. Not always running content that lets me use Holy Spirit and getting mediocre DPS isn't common.

I never had tp regen skill back in 2.x and 3.x.... do I missed anything? btw a lot of time I consume mp, so how can one starve tp?

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Originally Posted by aqskerorokero

I never had tp regen skill back in 2.x and 3.x.... do I missed anything? btw a lot of time I consume mp, so how can one starve tp?

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I guess you didn't read my follow up reply above. Not sure if you're trolling but if you're a DRK you'd be using MP more than TP anyway. If you use MP more as PLD, PLD has Riot Blade for MP restore.

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Originally Posted by TouchandFeel

Don't get in the bad habit of "saving" your abilities just for boss fights, use all of your tools as much as you can, as best you can. Seriously, boss fights in dungeons are so easy that there is no pressing need to "save" anything for them. Most abilities, such as Req have such a short cooldown that even if you use it during trash, it should be available by the time you get to the boss and would be using it. Sitting on abilities in order to "save" them is just limiting yourself. Even if you may not get full usage out of an ability, it's still better than no use out of an ability because you are "saving" it.

The only time you should be "saving" an ability is because the pack you are fighting is pretty much dead and you are making preparations for the next big pull.

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Very true. Thanks for the advice Touch.

Hello. It me, here to SMASH your arguments. Here it goes:

If you are running out of TP while you're tanking, then you're doing it wrong. Please stop doing whatever it is you're trying to do and use your other AoE skills effectively.

OK bye...

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Originally Posted by BluexBird

Hello. It me, here to SMASH your arguments. Here it goes:

If you are running out of TP while you're tanking, then you're doing it wrong. Please stop doing whatever it is you're trying to do and use your other AoE skills effectively.

OK bye...

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OK, how about running out of TP when doing a boss style FATE as a Pld in the early 60's?

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Originally Posted by StouterTaru

OK, how about running out of TP when doing a boss style FATE as a Pld in the early 60's?

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Unless your soloing, under gear, and have no choco... actually even with choco there should be no reason. There's a reason why it's called TP management.

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Originally Posted by Usho

I guess you didn't read my follow up reply above. Not sure if you're trolling but if you're a DRK you'd be using MP more than TP anyway. If you use MP more as PLD, PLD has Riot Blade for MP restore.

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Yea, pretty much favors WAR/PLD since it doesn't do squat for DRK.

So that means it's likely to happen. Please look forward to it!

TP + AOE Aggro Management:

Paladin - Flash - Circle - Flash into Total Eclipse spam. Use Flash again to refresh the Blind status, use Requiescat + Holy Spirit if the number of targets is less than four and you have no Fight or Flight up. If mobs are still alive, your DPS are bad, end of story.

Warrior - You have Deliverance-Equilibrium for +200TP and you have to refresh Storm's Eye every now and then anyways. That + Overpower + Beast Gauge skills should serve just enough.

Dark Knight - none of your AOE abilities cost TP and your single-target ones cost 20% less TP when under Blood Weapon (why even...?). You basically empty and refill MP periodically.

Conclusion? None of them honestly needs more TP than this.

Also Bards and Machinists not running Tactician is stupid - it benefits themselves for AOE TP management and it is another step to manage their aggro.

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Originally Posted by Usho

I for one would love invigorate back since I'm on PLD every day and I spam Total Eclipse when I'm fighting a group of mobs. But I either run out of TP or I have to stop attacking entirely to regain TP during the fighting and I feel like it slows down the run a little.

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If a big pull is lasting so long that you are running out of TP from Total Eclipse use and (Requiescat) Holy Spirit x5 isn't enough to pare down one or more targets then something is wrong with the DpS you are with.

The (Requiescat) Holy Spirit x5 burst is Paladin's TP recovery phase and you should be getting 3 to 4 ticks of TP regen during that time.

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

Yea, pretty much favors WAR/PLD since it doesn't do squat for DRK.

So that means it's likely to happen. Please look forward to it!

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Delirium now restores 300 TP instead of 2400 MP.

They basically fixed Tank TP issues. It used to be very serious in earlier times.

War: Single target never runs out of tp. Using beast gauge GCDs costs no TP which alone is enough to stop from bottoming out ever. Equalibrium on top of that if DPS stance.
Pld: Single target has spells baked into their lv 70 rotation.
Drk: Between lowered TP costs and use of bloodspiller (no TP gcd) Drk has no problem either.

AOE Pld and Drk both leverage their MP pools instead of TP. Pld just bounces between flash and DPS. Drk has many ways to regain MP quickly. War has equalibrium to support overpower spam.

Tank TP is the best its ever been. Single target no tank has a problem anymore. AOE is SUPPOSED to be resource intensive as it is for all jobs save blm and they still have ways to manage it through MP usage or equal. Its fine.

Use requiescat. Even at 5 mobs, it's a dps even, 4 it's a dps GAIN over Total Eclipse. You regenerate like 60 tp every 3 seconds so after it's over you'll have all kinda of TP.

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Originally Posted by Usho

So, I know they got rid of invigorate for tanks .

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I don't get the argument against this on some of the pulls I do a tp regen would be nice. Alot of pulls u can do all the way from one boss to the next a tp regen would come in handy

Seriously you have 2 ressource for aoe skills.
How long are you supposed to spam?

I'd rather them do something about dk. Being oom when new adds pop is awful.
I had my fair share of struggle on shin when we skip phase with me at 0%mana

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Originally Posted by ManuelBravo

Why would tanks need TP regain unless they really don't understand TP management? If your struggling with TP you may want to consider a few things;

Are you properly geared? ( under gear is a big issue in some cases if your not at a minimum at par with DPS if they are overpowering you )

Are you panicking? Remember your tank you can set the flow of battle. Don't feel pressure on speed runs.

IF you really need to use markers on mobs so taht DPS can focus on one mob and make it easier.

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Dunno TP on WAR can be a bit annoying since if you're pulling big mobs your'e spamming overpower for that 700+ potency and then you have to wait to pull after or beg your team to pay attention.

Of course in a raid or something this is a non issue but in dungeons and stuff I'd argue that WAR (since DRK and PLD have ways to easily get back MP) need something.

Use some of your and your healer's mana instead. Self-Clemency during Requiescat while they AoE if you're otherwise going to run out of TP via Total Eclipse spam.

Out of the three tanks, I find Paladin the least pressed for resources to handle AoE pulls.