Hi im trying to figure out what is the truth

Hi ive been told by some GM's that house buying is against tos rules and some that it isnt so which is the real truth? i know as long as you are buying and selling for the price the plot is worth that it isnt a rmt so can someone help me?

It is not a case of RMT (Real Money Trade) as long as it is just gil changing hands.

Buying/selling houses is a gray area. There is no rule in the ToS directly forbidding it, but if you are charging excessive prices or buying/selling them on a regular basis you can get warned or even banned by a GM for disruptive behaviour (which is forbidden by the ToS)

Exactly what is allowed and what is not allowed when it comes to house buying/selling is unknown and may well come down to the judgement of individual GMs.

Hello Black_Hawk_x303. Thank you for posting on the Final Fantasy XIV Technical Support Forums.

The question you are asking unfortunately is not a technical issue. I do know that issues dealing with RMT or selling/buying houses is directly handled by the GM's. I wish I could have been of more assistance. I will be moving this thread to "general discussion"

Thank you for playing Final Fantasy XIV! Hope to see you online.

You can sell the house but not for proffit, that's againts ToS.

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Originally Posted by akaneakki

You can sell the house but not for proffit, that's againts ToS.

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^ This, the mods will be fine with it if you sell it for /exactly/ the plot price and nothing more.

Gray area~ No agest ToS but no supported neither...
You can sell it for how much you bought it (actual plot) but no more.

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Originally Posted by akaneakki

You can sell the house but not for proffit, that's againts ToS.

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In what way is it against the ToS? Which part of the ToS does it break?

You can buy and sell around the original pricing, without issues so yes you can buy and sell.

If you see somebody selling a small house for 50 mil or something don't buy and report that player.

I wish the GMs gave a damn about people using their gathering bot alt accounts to horde houses.

Unfortunately, that would require them caring about bots in general in the first place.

Yoshi P said that selling for exorbitant prices is a no go. Most likely it's that you can sell for the same price as it cost when buying the plot itself when it's new.

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Originally Posted by MistakeNot

In what way is it against the ToS? Which part of the ToS does it break?

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You said it yourself in your first post.

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Originally Posted by alimdia

You said it yourself in your first post.

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Oh, I know what I wrote there: my interpretation of what the actual rules appear to be, which is that house selling in itself does not appear to be forbidden but doing so in a disruptive manner is - with all the details left to the judgement of individual GMs.

The poster I replied to later claimed that any selling for profit is against the Terms of Service. It is not clear at all that this is the case, and I for one would be interested in seeing some actual evidence it it is true.

like everyone else has said, it is indeed a grey area. Exercise caution and be FAIR. Turning some profit cant be a bad thing, but gouging is. Some rules that I went by way back when I bought my first house: Never pay more than double than what the land was initially worth. Small grade 1 houses go for what, 3.7 mil. Max id go for a place like that that is 7 mil. The bigger houses are worth much much more, so that guideline may not be suited for anything other than a small. Also keep in mind gil can only be traded 1 mil at a time, this is where the caution comes in. There are some scummy people out there that will take it and run. be careful :D

There's no such thing as selling the house for the same as it's worth. This is because you are only paying the owner to relinquish their land. You then have pay the full price of the land after it has been relinquished. So even if the seller charges the normal value, the buyer has to pay double the cost.

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Originally Posted by MistakeNot

Oh, I know what I wrote there: my interpretation of what the actual rules appear to be, which is that house selling in itself does not appear to be forbidden but doing so in a disruptive manner is - with all the details left to the judgement of individual GMs.

The poster I replied to later claimed that any selling for profit is against the Terms of Service. It is not clear at all that this is the case, and I for one would be interested in seeing some actual evidence it it is true.

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I don't think it's explicitly stated anywhere. It's just a well known stance GMs/SE take on it. Kind of like a few other grey areas (parsers).

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Originally Posted by Zetsumei_Tsunarashi

There's no such thing as selling the house for the same as it's worth. This is because you are only paying the owner to relinquish their land. You then have pay the full price of the land after it has been relinquished. So even if the seller charges the normal value, the buyer has to pay double the cost.

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This. If a person "bought" the house for 45 mil then claimed the land for 5 mil, the price they paid is 50 mil. Selling the house for 50 mil would not be for profit, but I bet many would still report that person. The next person would then have to pay 50 mil + 5 mil to get that house, all because people want to push the cost of the house they got to enjoy to the next person.

Feels like beating a dead horse but the fact is, when all and everything keeps within the game, it is not RMT, because those things are missing the "real money" part of "Real Money Trade, RMT".

Some of such activities may break other rules, 'tho, but they aren't rmt.

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Originally Posted by Enla

^ This, the mods will be fine with it if you sell it for /exactly/ the plot price and nothing more.

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This is incorrect. Numerous posts have confirmed that you can make a profit, just not an obscene one.

Most people probably don't even remember what they paid for their plot of land anyway, so to try to hold it to the: You have to sell it for what you bought it for is pretty pointless.

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Originally Posted by Enla

^ This, the mods will be fine with it if you sell it for /exactly/ the plot price and nothing more.

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This still results in the buyer spending exactly twice as much as a vacant lot.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

This is incorrect. Numerous posts have confirmed that you can make a profit, just not an obscene one.

Most people probably don't even remember what they paid for their plot of land anyway, so to try to hold it to the: You have to sell it for what you bought it for is pretty pointless.

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That doesn't mean he was wrong. He said you won't get in trouble if you sell at list price. He didn't say selling slightly higher is guaranteed to get you in trouble.

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Originally Posted by Canadane

This still results in the buyer spending exactly twice as much as a vacant lot.

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Don't blame the players, blame the housing system. Wanting to get back what you paid whether 5 or 50 million, is completely understandable and fair. Again, blame Square, not the people playing the game that allows for such things to be happening.

Is it at all possible(I've never owned a house though I dearly wish I did) to make the person you are selling to a tenant, and then give them ownership? Would that not be the way to do it so that you are selling it for the amount you paid, without them having to pay double?

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Originally Posted by Avatre

Is it at all possible(I've never owned a house though I dearly wish I did) to make the person you are selling to a tenant, and then give them ownership? Would that not be the way to do it so that you are selling it for the amount you paid, without them having to pay double?

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It'd be nice but unfortunately we don't have that option right now.

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Originally Posted by dotsforlife

It'd be nice but unfortunately we don't have that option right now.

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Maybe something for the devs to look into. >.>

Side note: Saddest scene in the game right in your signature.

From what Ive understood, you can sell your land to another with gil under the conditions that 1) The Price isnt exorbitant, 2) youre not gaming the system for profit.

Meaning, you buy a plot of land in Shirogane. You are using that land for a while but need to quit the game for a bit, so you want to sell your plot. You sell it for 4 or so Mil. This transaction will most likely be overlooked by the GMs cause it makes sense.

On the other hand...
You went out and bought 7-8 plots, and are selling them all for 20-40 million a piece, and have no intention of actually using them for housing. This would be stopped by the GM as you are gaming the housing system for personal gain at the expense of other players.

See the difference. GMs not going to waste their time on a plot trading hands within a reasonable Gil range. THeyre gonna give a damn though about someone buying up tons of property and pricing them ridiculously.

LOL there's a whole network of people selling small plots for 30+ mil on..."other" sites. What can you do? The artificial housing shortage has caused some exorbitant pricing schemes. Even if you do report the seller - what happens?

Depending on circumstances they might get a ban and lose gil.