Could we please get the Cliffhanger GATE mechanic inside of a dungeon?

I was doing the GATE, "Cliffhanger" at the Gold Saucer today and it is without question, my favorite GATE and I look forward to seeing it spawn each time it appears at the Gold Saucer. As I was doing it, I thought to myself, "How cool would it be if they added this into a new dungeon!". So that's my feedback here!

SE, could we please get a segment in a new dungeon between bosses, where instead of fighting trash and adds; we're doing a jumping puzzle with bombs? Perhaps even between trash pulls. The bombs having the same knockback effect when you're hit, causing you to restart from the bottom? Keep it completely identical to that of "Cliffhanger" but inside of a dungeon instead.

I think this would be a nice change of pace to see inside of a dungeon!

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Originally Posted by Vivi_Bushido

I was doing the GATE, "Cliffhanger" at the Gold Saucer today and it is without question, my favorite GATE and I look forward to seeing it spawn each time it appears at the Gold Saucer. As I was doing it, I thought to myself, "How cool would it be if they added this into a new dungeon!". So that's my feedback here!

SE, could we please get a segment in a new dungeon between bosses, where instead of fighting trash and adds; we're doing a jumping puzzle with bombs? Perhaps even between trash pulls. The bombs having the same knockback effect when you're hit, causing you to restart from the bottom?

I think this would be a nice change of pace to see inside of a dungeon!

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As amusing as this sounds..... "jumping puzzles" is a thing that many people do not like.....unless I'm wrong...I just happen to know this is a "thing" - (Veteran Destiny 1 Gamer)

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Originally Posted by NephthysVasudan

As amusing as this sounds..... "jumping puzzles" is a thing that many people do not like.....unless I'm wrong...I just happen to know this is a "thing" - (Veteran Destiny 1 Gamer)

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the jumping puzzles in D1 were the WORST.....

I'll pass on the jumping puzzles....however just puzzles in general possibly could be fun every once and a while, like, zelda-esque puzzles

Can I be a party pooper and speak out against this?
Personally I dont like that kind of gameplay (I only did the GATE once or twice because of it) - maybe because I'm really, really bad at it. Thats why I dont play Jum'n'Runs or Platformers and games like this instead where its normally not as important to perform jumps and such...
While it would be nice to have something more in dungeons between fighting trash mobs, I dont feel thats the way to go - I might be biased, but I know that my daily dungeon runs would get very, very frustrating if I had to do jump puzzles. This game is also not really build for jump-puzzles either...

The only thing I could see working is some PotD-styled dungeon for jump puzzles - you might also want to take a look at the sightseeing log, some spots involve jump puzzles (Hello, Kugane...!)

But please... keep it out of dungeons. Its most likely gonna slow the run down for no good reason - at least from my perspective its not a good reason, since its not something I'd enjoy doing.

The Cliffhanger GATE is not a jumping puzzle, it's AoE dodging like the boss in Bardam's Mettle. It would be perfectly suitable for a PvE dungeon and would also bring variety.

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Originally Posted by NephthysVasudan

As amusing as this sounds..... "jumping puzzles" is a thing that many people do not like.....unless I'm wrong...I just happen to know this is a "thing" - (Veteran Destiny 1 Gamer)

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Those were easy though. Especially when people said Hunters can't do them, and then I proved them wrong. Like in Vault of Glass, when you need to get across the chasm with the disappearing platforms. I ended up going the same path as my Warlock friend...you know, how they glide across and safely land...except I was on my Hunter, they thought I would die. I lived.

As for jumping puzzles in FF, they aren't all that bad(imo), but I can understand people's frustrations with them.

I wouldn't like the jump puzzles in a dungeon. Although I do think the current flow of dungeons need shaking up. Maybe add things in like 3 ppl stand on panel opens door or segment of floor drops while walking along. Maybe even two routes your normal mobs one route or take the harder route with more difficult mobs but with higher exp reward.

Some recent ones have been good random boulder rolling down or change into creature to go over hole etc.

Put this in a dungeon and I guarantee you stalls and vote kicks/abandons will occur over people who simply can't get past them.

No thanks.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

Put this in a dungeon and I guarantee you stalls and vote kicks/abandons will occur over people who simply can't get past them.

No thanks.

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One way around it is that there is a lever at the top that opens a ramp for people that can't do it. Though, that would still require at least one person to be able to do the jumps.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

The Cliffhanger GATE is not a jumping puzzle, it's AoE dodging like the boss in Bardam's Mettle. It would be perfectly suitable for a PvE dungeon and would also bring variety.

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Does it not require you to jump up the stairs, dodge AoEs, jump past missing stairs etc.?
The OP also made it sound as if everyone has to pass that jump puzzle-test - in Bardams its okay for one person to fail!

...and its also "okay" for one (or two... or three...) person to stand out of the bossroom and dodge the dodging alltogether. I've seen that a few times.
So either you force everyone to do something potentially frustrating and time consuming (as in: having to wait for one person if they fail over and over again... me, most likely...) or you have something that people can choose to stand out of/not help with. Both not ideal...

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Originally Posted by Vidu

Does it not require you to jump up the stairs, dodge AoEs, jump past missing stairs etc.?
The OP also made it sound as if everyone has to pass that jump puzzle-test - in Bardams its okay for one person to fail!

...and its also "okay" for one (or two... or three...) person to stand out of the bossroom and dodge the dodging alltogether. I've seen that a few times.
So either you force everyone to do something potentially frustrating and time consuming (as in: having to wait for one person if they fail over and over again... me, most likely...) or you have something that people can choose to stand out of/not help with. Both not ideal...

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Since it's a dungeon there would be shortcuts that would appear as a single person progresses. Though I can't speak if all 4 players are bad at it. However, I wasn't picturing the challenge to be "Kugane Tower" hard anyway. I was more of the mentality that it would retain the same difficulty as the GATEs in the Gold Saucer. Nothing extreme. I should have just said AoE jumping dodge as one person had mentioned instead of puzzle, my apologies there.

Though, it appears the idea is an unpopular one. I didn't realize jumping platforms were disliked so much D:

Another way to get around this, is make it an optional challenge dungeon that has these puzzles. Maybe even give a title for completion of it X number of times. Something like "Jump Master" or something.

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Originally Posted by Vivi_Bushido

Though, it appears the idea is an unpopular one. I didn't realize jumping platforms were disliked so much D:

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It wouldn't be so bad if they were better at making these jumping puzzles. But as the jumping puzzles prove, it is not their strength at this point. I play platformers alot, so I'm used to jumping, however how it works in this game and how they make the puzzles, leaves alot to be desired.

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Originally Posted by silverlunarfox

the jumping puzzles in D1 were the WORST.....

I'll pass on the jumping puzzles....however just puzzles in general possibly could be fun every once and a while, like, zelda-esque puzzles

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Warlock FTW (void/electric) *queue Imperial March* <3 You get into the expansion before the Iron Wolves DLC? Cant remember the name of it...big giant ship....had to jump from platform to platform to platform.
Course the most hated one was the Vault of Time(?) been too long.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

The Cliffhanger GATE is not a jumping puzzle, it's AoE dodging like the boss in Bardam's Mettle. It would be perfectly suitable for a PvE dungeon and would also bring variety.

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No..its a jumping puzzle...if you have to jump.....its a jumping puzzle. @.@ (took me a dozen tries to get that damn thing cleared)
AOE is involved..but yours till jumping from thing to thing to thing..and if miss..you fall down to the bottom and try again.

So yes..I must protest :P

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Originally Posted by NephthysVasudan

Warlock FTW (void/electric) *queue Imperial March* <3 You get into the expansion before the Iron Wolves DLC? Cant remember the name of it...big giant ship....had to jump from platform to platform to platform.
Course the most hated one was the Vault of Time(?) been too long.

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I was a warlock too tho I took the set everything on fire route. I did I played from the start all the way through, and even as a warlock a few of those were tricky with timing if you had the super glide on (thats what I call it I don't remember the ability). They were fun though and really tested your patience and jump potential. But when you completed it, it was satisfying. God that was such a long time ago....

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Originally Posted by NephthysVasudan

Snip.

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Originally Posted by silverlunarfox

Double Snip

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Hunter FTW. Doing the jumps that Warlocks and Titans said couldn't be done as a Hunter, and doing them faster than said Warlocks and Titans, made the Taken King raid a rather salty place quite often when PUGing it.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

The Cliffhanger GATE is not a jumping puzzle, it's AoE dodging like the boss in Bardam's Mettle. It would be perfectly suitable for a PvE dungeon and would also bring variety.

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The Wonder Square version of Cliffhanger is absolutely a jumping puzzle. The Round Square version is as well, though there's not as much of it. Yes, there are also AoE dodging mechanics, but just because those exist doesn't mean that the jumps don't.

Jumping puzzles can be fun, but this game wasn't designed with them in mind, and they can be quite finicky. They should stay as optional content only.

A "puzzle" requires that some degree of thought has to be put in to "solving" it.

A situation where you know exactly where you have to jump to and how to get there (even if actually doing so in practice is difficult to accomplish) are not really puzzles by definition. Like, the Kugane tower is not a puzzle. It's very clear where you have to make each jump, even if the actual jumps are sometimes difficult to execute. The cactuar tower in Gold Saucer doesn't suddenly become a "puzzle" just because there's bombs falling either, it's just an extra mechanic that forces you to watch where you're going and not rush up the very obvious path.

I'm sure there were some entries in the original 1-80 sightseeing log that were actual legitimate jump *puzzles* but the length of time it's been since I've done that (as well as potential PTSD) has caused me to purge all of that from memory so I can't recall any specific examples.

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Originally Posted by Avatre

Another way to get around this, is make it an optional challenge dungeon that has these puzzles. Maybe even give a title for completion of it X number of times. Something like "Jump Master" or something.

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The devs spend time making this happen. After day one, nobody bothers doing it because it adds 30 seconds onto their daily roul. If you make the reward too enticing, people get pissed because it becomes part of mandatory routine.

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Originally Posted by NephthysVasudan

No..its a jumping puzzle...if you have to jump.....its a jumping puzzle. @.@

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Yes, you do have to jump. Just like when there is a fence in your way in the open world. I still wouldn't call fences a jumping puzzle. The path in Cliffhanger is wide and obvious and you don't have to use different length jumps and sprint like you do in Kugane Tower. There are only 3 jumps over a gap, I think. To me the challenge comes from dodging the bombs and I did not realize the few jumps are what other people find difficult.

This game, just like FFXV, is bad at platforming and not designed for it. I've spent 10 hours in Pitioss Ruins, an end-game platforming dungeon there without any enemies, just because how frustrating controls are. Many people spent as much, if not more, trying to get on top of Kugane tower in FFXIV.Making a Duty Finder dungeon out of that mechanic is a bad, bad idea. But I don't mind more solo challenges like hard-to-get vistas when you are not pressured by time and other people.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

you don't have to use different length jumps and sprint like you do in Kugane Tower.

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You actually don't need sprint for the tower. It might help some people, but it isn't a requirement to be able to make it up there without it. Only time I used sprint for the tower, was when I fell off and hit the ground. Used it to get back to the starting bridge.

I did try getting the signpost with sprint, didn't work since it overshot me.

Lag + dodging is bad enough but add in 3d jumping... oy. The gate in question is easy enough but if you're trying to do it and your connection goes south luck more than skill determines the outcome. Platform games are best played locally, not over the Internet.

When Nintendo makes Super Mario MMO then have at it. Make it all platforming all the time. I definitely won't be sticking around if FFXIV tries to go that route.

This would be the only dungeon I would leave at the start. Jumping puzzles in this game are horrible experiences and I refuse to do them.

Jumping Puzzles, Switch/Block Puzzles, and the like could be done if it wasnt required every member of hte party need participate. So as an example, a jumping puzzle to flip a switch to open a door fo ryour party to progress woudl work if only one person needed to flip that switch.

I too would like some Zelda-esque stuff though. Boss mechanics have evolved to be more interesting, the linear pull mobs and AOE it down dungeon model could use a change. An interactive dungeon would be cool I think.

I wouldn't mind so much something like the gate where there are very clear unobstructed jump points that are fairly wide, but as someone else suggested, maybe an elevator switch at the top for those that can't get up there.

Wouldn't mind if the game actually would be amde for it, lets be real, the game is horrible with such, invisbile platforms to stand on, invisible collisions that make you not go past certain areas, i am looking at kugane tower here, GW2 did it better sicne it had it in mind when the game came out, FF14 on the other hand, copy pastes it badly, no thanks.

Rather a good copy or nothing at all then this what we have right now.

No.

The puzzles were piece of cake in Destiny 1 (Vault of Glass were my fav ones, the kings fall raid .. well I don't even call that a puzzle, way to easy).

However, GW2 I hated the jumps, it's one of the reasons I quit that game.

I just don't like those puzzles in MMO's.

No thank you.

Please god no. I already hate some of the gimmicky stuff they've been putting in dungeons lately because it makes keeping Eye stacks or Greased Lightning a royal pain. The last thing I want to do in a dungeon is jumping puzzles, and I actually like jumping puzzles.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

The Cliffhanger GATE is not a jumping puzzle, it's AoE dodging like the boss in Bardam's Mettle. It would be perfectly suitable for a PvE dungeon and would also bring variety.

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I hated that dungeon because of that boss. I vote no to this idea.

Janky hitbox detection and unfixable lag for my location = NO.. no no no no. I don't want to finally make a jump to just get "lol you really were in the AOE" lag and get knocked back to the beginning. Connection issues make this a Nay vote for me.

Reading some of the replies here, I have to note that this is the impasse we keep arriving at. We get bored with "expert" dungeons tailored for fast, daily grinds which tend to be based on the same tired formula, but then we don't want something different because "it'll take time". And we don't want tougher dungeons because "it'll take time" and "I want to take it easy/don't want to feel like it's work".

Segments like the swimming/diving in Rabanastre are nice to break the monotony, and making use of the flight/swimming would be cool and "foolproof" (like, you can't really screw up flying), and I personally wouldn't complain if "expert" roulette was Original Pharos/Amdapor Keep-levels of challenging. Something different would indeed be nice, but you have to accept that perhaps you'll have to spend an extra minute or two. The horror. . .

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

Reading some of the replies here,

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.. like 2..

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

I have to note that this is the impasse we keep arriving at. We get bored with "expert" dungeons tailored for fast, daily grinds which tend to be based on the same tired formula, but then we don't want something different because "it'll take time". And we don't want tougher dungeons because "it'll take time" and "I want to take it easy/don't want to feel like it's work".

Segments like the swimming/diving in Rabanastre are nice to break the monotony, and making use of the flight/swimming would be cool and "foolproof" (like, you can't really screw up flying), and I personally wouldn't complain if "expert" roulette was Original Pharos/Amdapor Keep-levels of challenging. Something different would indeed be nice, but you have to accept that perhaps you'll have to spend an extra minute or two. The horror. . .

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no.. this game sucks for "jumping puzzles" because they're not puzzles, they're working with poorly calibrated mechanics and overcoming deceptive hitboxes to finally make it one time in a thousand for NO DISCERNIBLE REASON.
It's not the time. It's the fact that its not fun or challenging, it's just frustrating.

You know what was a fun (if very short) break in the monotony? Turning into a floaty monster to bridge a gap in Skalla . I had a time limit, very clear areas that it was needed for and no knife's edge margin for error that lag would make annoying. Make a puzzle with little "morphing pads" and invisible paths around a mountain you can only bridge as the floaty monster and I'm sold. It's a puzzle, it requires a solution but does not punish you for not knowing exactly where the poorly defined hitbox of your feet are or for lag.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

.. like 2..


no.. this game sucks for "jumping puzzles" because they're not puzzles, they're working with poorly calibrated mechanics and overcoming deceptive hitboxes to finally make it one time in a thousand for NO DISCERNIBLE REASON.
It's not the time. It's the fact that its not fun or challenging, it's just frustrating.

You know what was a fun (if very short) break in the monotony? Turning into a floaty monster to bridge a gap in Skalla . I had a time limit, very clear areas that it was needed for and no knife's edge margin for error that lag would make annoying. Make a puzzle with little "morphing pads" and invisible paths around a mountain you can only bridge as the floaty monster and I'm sold. It's a puzzle, it requires a solution but does not punish you for not knowing exactly where the poorly defined hitbox of your feet are or for lag.

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I could get behind that kinda thing.

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Segments like the swimming/diving in Rabanastre are nice to break the monotony,

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It's a complete waste of time and I have no idea why it's even there in the raid other than to pad the running time by another couple of minutes (when in a lot of cases, the run time of the raid was already padded by people failing at the boss you'd just beaten).

Not to mention that the first time it happened to me, I got lost in the swimming segment (which only one of the parties seems to get; how is that fair?) because the map in that area is absurdly unhelpful, and ended up being locked out of the 3rd boss fight as a result. Wow, what fun.

From that point on I always just run back to the telepoint after the trash pull after 2nd boss, warp back to the entrance, wait for everyone else to get to the 3rd boss, then warp back.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

You know what was a fun (if very short) break in the monotony? Turning into a floaty monster to bridge a gap in Skalla .

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To me, that was just another pull wall like all those rubble piles that mysteriously vanish when mobs are dead. There was zero engagement in it involved, you could simply auto-run your way through without even steering. Didn't have to think about the path or when to use what either.

I'd rather just have the tank pull more than get a "puzzle" in which there is only one hole and only one piece which fits the hole no matter how it's rotated. Even my AoE rotation is more engaging than that >_>

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

It's a complete waste of time and I have no idea why it's even there in the raid other than to pad the running time by another couple of minutes (when in a lot of cases, the run time of the raid was already padded by people failing at the boss you'd just beaten).

Not to mention that the first time it happened to me, I got lost in the swimming segment (which only one of the parties seems to get; how is that fair?) because the map in that area is absurdly unhelpful, and ended up being locked out of the 3rd boss fight as a result. Wow, what fun.

From that point on I always just run back to the telepoint after the trash pull after 2nd boss, warp back to the entrance, wait for everyone else to get to the 3rd boss, then warp back.

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You got lost in a section that's still quite linear and just decided to not try anymore? Wow, I'm surprised you don't get lost warping back. . .

And while you say complete waste of time, I'm sure someone else would say the same thing if it was another flight of stairs or another long drop. Which really goes back to my previous point. People say they want something different and interesting. . . then they get it and "it takes time" so they don't want it. That would be one reason why "expert" roulette requires no semblance of expertise at all now. But I suppose it's all about the destination, not the journey, so see you at the next samey endgame instance.