how smn now, compare with others caster...???

.... off for a few months and now i want to get back inthe game, i play alot of smn back then in HW, but in 4.0 they are heavy nerf and feel so clumsy to play so i change to a PLD, after month or 2 of playing, i was almost done with 4.0 patch so i took sometime off

i want to replay smn again, i ask my guildmate about their opinion on smn in current patch, and they said that job is a-okay now, so what extractly, can you enlight me please? anything happen that change smn from 4.0 to 4.15? and if you don't min then can you give me a quick compare with other 2 caster?

I'm not a SMN main but I know a few things. They changed some stuff to make it fluid, like Ruin 1>3 and 2>4 mastery. No cast time on Ruin 3 in Dreadwyrm. Higher potency on tri bind in Dreadwyrm. I think they raised dot dmg back up a bit since 4.0 too. I hear SMN can be top dps job depending on the fight, like if there are adds. Still got some perks over blm like less punished by movement mechanics and able to res people. Higher dmg than rdm. Oh and they changed the pet devotion buff to aoe - previously only buffed person nearest pet.

you got pets

/thread

Compared to other casters, SMN is OP atm. Not an easy job, but versatile and powerful af.

It was made easier :
- DOTs buffed to 50 instead of 40 in patch 4.05 (back to a dot job, BRD having 100 pot dots and SMN 80 made no sense)
- Ruin 3 got from 150 to 130 BUT it costs almost no MP now and entirely replaces Ruin I. Plus, it's instant cast in Trance so you can weave stuff and more importantly, increases your mobility (also the potency reduction means less punishment outside of trance if you go back to Ruin II to weave / move)
- Ruin IV now replaces Ruin II and is also instant cast, allowing you to weave (so you don't sit on it until you're able to cast, so you can benefit 2-3 more on a fight)
- Devotion reduced from 5 to 2% BUT it's battle littany style now, whole party (as it should've been from the start)
- MP are no more an issue.


Stuff still annoying :
- AF still locked from transe so be sure to transe no later than 20 seconds before AF comes back (boss jump : deal with it).
- As for Bahamut, he moves a little less and seems to try and put wyrmwaves before moving, but still not what it should be. They were able to make Garuda completely still, why couldn't they for him ?
- Still a bit clunky in his "flow" (rather see a succesion of gates than a flow but, oh well), but you can use Ifrit on sic to help you track better the things you need to keep an eye out for.

About other casters : it is completely OP and trumps BLM and RDM in personnal damage AND utility (radiant shield + devotion + raise), it's even top DPS before SAM on some fights, so something's a bit off here.

Second highest DPS after SAM according to fflogs, its a lot smoother to play too (except bahamut being dumb)

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Originally Posted by Fjaere

Second highest DPS after SAM according to fflogs, its a lot smoother to play too (except bahamut being dumb)

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What do you mean "being dumb"?

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Originally Posted by Fjaere

Second highest DPS after SAM according to fflogs, its a lot smoother to play too (except bahamut being dumb)

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It's higher than Samurai in most fights, actually.

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Originally Posted by ShariusTC

What do you mean "being dumb"?

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Bahamut has issues with movement that can affect his DPS output. His Ekindle in particular. He follows you and if you have to move he might or might not get off a shot before he follows or after he arrives. His Wyrmwave is also tied to SMN actions some of which have no relevance to DPS and waste their mitigation effects. One school of thought is Bahamut should be placeable by the Summoner as he has a huge range. Another thought is Wyrmwave should just be automatic or failing that remove its ties to defensive actions like Addle.

I can't compare SMN to other casters but I will say that the clunky play and button bloat on steroids has been fixed for the most part where it feels comfortable to play. I like the way they make Ruin II upgrade to Ruin IV when it procs and Ruin I to Ruin III when you are at lvl 54 or above. They also made Tri-bind usable again for AOE when under Dreadwyrm Trance. I was ready to quit summoner when SB came out but the changes made it pretty decent to play. There is still a high death penalty depending upon where you are in the rotation when you die but even here the 4.1 patch made them bearable by greatly reducing the summon time for egi's and lowering MP costs for some of the actions. I would like to see oGCD and Aetherflow allowed while under Dreadwyrm Trance as they did in HW as well. All in all I think Summoner is in a pretty decent spot as far as play style and with a few more tweaks could be in a great position.

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Originally Posted by ShariusTC

What do you mean "being dumb"?

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http://fs5.directupload.net/images/171211/vq5l4cov.png

as for the topic Kharshan & Calvius pretty much summed it very well imo.

Smn is in a good (maybe a bit to well) position atm - its always hard to balance dot/burst/pet/utility on this cls...
...most of his history bottom line, currently above the line, enjoy as long as its possible ;3

It’s my second favorite!







it’s just that good

can someone give an end game rotation of smn atm?

uhm... after 4.0 Eirene released a rota with 8 phases - that rota alone was around 2-3 DinA4 pages printed maybe I find the jpgs i made of them... ; )

edit: there you go:
https://thumb.ibb.co/fsmiQG/smns_heart.png

it might be that several steps changed due to the insta cast buffs but the base should still be following this cycles ^^

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Originally Posted by Fjaere

Second highest DPS after SAM according to fflogs, its a lot smoother to play too (except bahamut being dumb)

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Check again.

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Originally Posted by Neela

uhm... after 4.0 Eirene released a rota with 8 phases - that rota alone was around 2-3 DinA4 pages printed maybe I find the jpgs i made of them... ; )

edit: there you go:
https://thumb.ibb.co/fsmiQG/smns_heart.png

it might be that several steps changed due to the insta cast buffs but the base should still be following this cycles ^^

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nice, gonna try it out once i'm hit 70 with my smn

and again, which role skill i should bring with me in current patch?

lucid dreams (aggro reduce since we got buffed in burst pretty hard), swiftcast (for ruin lll and res), addle (for bahamut although its weirdo that a utility skills procs his autoatk...) should be considered - the others should be situational like the anti-pushback skill for o4s f.e. ^^

oh and IIRC dev promis us about new egi glamor back then before they released a newsletter about 4.0, did they do it yet?

no words on egi glam after they released the carbis tho... I think they had handfull on balancing/smn job design after 4.0... death penalty caused a hughe debate about the cls design as worse as the current Blm threads unfortunately the glam lost priority and felt way behind although its promised yeah q.q

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Originally Posted by ShariusTC

.... which role skill i should bring with me in current patch?

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I bring the same as Neela's post. I also tend to keep Mana Shift on my bar most of the time. I run mostly DF and some PF dungeons and raids and have noticed the non-Scholar healers tend to use more MP for some reason. Since Summoner MP management is good at the moment I shoot the healers MP whenever Mana Shift is up and the healer has room on their MP bar. I will also use it to help out healer or other caster MP recovery after they have been raised.

So, now ifrit have a bit more ultility than garuda because of his AOE shield, right, and garuda only good if you are pair with other caster in your party?

The difference in damage between the pets leans more towards Ifrit now with the change to Contagion and Radiant Shield. Garuda can be used for opener to cast Contagion and swap to Ifrit (much better now considering the low cast time and cost of summons now) or if your party leans more towards magic output.

Summoner is in a good spot right now. One of the highest dps if played well and not that hard anymore to get into. Nice seeing the bookwyrms of dps shinning so bright. (Spelling of wyrm was intentional).

I would highly recommend reading Eirene Snow's SMN guide and Tsundere Imouto's to get a feel for how the job works. And then, practice. A lot.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...3LQBPy1E/edit#

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...y0TrCa0qg/edit

Right now SMN is definitely very strong, needless to say. It will take a bit to really learn the ins and outs of the job in various scenarios, just keep practicing.

Is just me or smn really rare on aether? It's been a week since i came back ro this game and i only in the same team with other smn about 2 or 3 time

blm might suffer a same fate but somehow there are more blm than smn, i can meet few of them in 24 men raid, most of time my co-dps will be sam, rdm, drg or nin

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ShariusTC

Is just me or smn really rare on aether? It's been a week since i came back ro this game and i only in the same team with other smn about 2 or 3 time

blm might suffer a same fate but somehow there are more blm than smn, i can meet few of them in 24 men raid, most of time my co-dps will be sam, rdm, drg or nin

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Going off on my reply, the reason you don't see loads of SMNs is because it's one of the more painful classes to master. Once you learn it well, it's pretty straightforward, but getting there is.... a lot of work. (which I can say, as a person who once dreaded the work and have since done it due to the state of BLM)

I actually decided to grab a level pot for SCH since I wanted to catch up a bit and had plenty of caster gear for SMN from leveling RDM. Just started on the job quests, but definitely want to learn more on the job before trying it in a dungeon/trial situation. This info is definitely a good help! Also, are there any good intro guides for the basics of SMN? I would also appreciate feedback on progressing fro lv60 upwards.

which job is better in AOE dps now? back then in HW i choose SMN mainly because ppl said that they are king of AOE, i'm careless about single target damage, when i play dps i feel clear a group of enemy fast feel more fun

but then when SB hit the market, SMN got a massive hit in AOE section both bane and deathflare being nerf so hard, lost of blizz 2 and IIRC BLM being buff in AOE damage with their flare or something

now after some fix here and there, i can use tri-bind inplace of blizz 2, so how this job AOE compare with other 2 class?

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Originally Posted by ShariusTC

so how this job AOE compare with other 2 class?

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smn might be stronger due to mobility, lots of ogcd like painflare, shadowflare, enkidle (& egi aoe) + the Tri-Bind buff in DWT is really strong (consider swiftcast here as well). Deathflare and Ahk Morn should be a clear argument. Also devotion is nice to have even though its not "that" powerful - it feels like real utility somehow.

Losing m2 and the dot-spread-nerf on bane was a punch in the face at SB but after they rebuffed dot-pot bane could be useful in aoe situations as well again. At least we don't have a skill which relies on meleerange which frees your mind in movement even more.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ChaoticCrimson

Just started on the job quests, but definitely want to learn more on the job before trying it in a dungeon/trial situation. This info is definitely a good help! Also, are there any good intro guides for the basics of SMN? I would also appreciate feedback on progressing fro lv60 upwards.

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both guides above are state of the art I would say eirenes also covers a hugh load of cls design and skill mechanics in general. nowadays there are several ways to try out cls' without holding back a grp with try and errors at all. First (hate to say that) Potd as usual but also the squad-dng missions from your gc are a good way to try out mechanics and skills on a "real" run situation. ^^

in a nutshell: lvl 60 onwards until you receive Bahamut its not that complicated or foreseeing to rotaed... basically aside of dot-uptime its all about burning stacks (fester on single painflare on mobs) to get into DWT: than burst ruin3 (single) or Tri-Bind (mobs) until your trance is going to fall off and finish with Deathflare. Due to the last patches Sic-frit is a good start because he's more effective on sic than Ruda ever will be; that being said Ifrit should be your choice if you just start to get in touch with the cls cause of less to non micromanage. Later on you have to decide which one fits better for mobs, bosses and your grp comp. But thats nothing you shall waste your mind with in the beginning. ^^

Bahamut will add a 2nd "stack up" phase tho, making your sequences longer and timing-windows tighter. ^^

Smn current toolkits are really powerful in single target and aoe – yeah to be honest maybe a bit to strong. But since caster balance was officially addressed in the last newsletter the order might change back to "normal". So if you wanna smell a piece of master race you should do it as long as it lasts ; )


so long
Yuni ^^

they shouldnt nerf smn, its high dps runs are usally due to, if it can somehow aoe (or has very extreme movment fights)

They shouldn't nerf SMN because it's the only caster that gets even close to competing for a meta spot. That being said, BLM should be significantly stronger than it as the "low utility high damage" caster, and that needs amending ASAP.