Why is Bloodbath not on cross-role?

I'm curious. If melee and ranged dps can share Second Wind, why can't melee and tanks also share Bloodbath?
Why, now that both Paladin and Dark Knight have physical AoE, remove this skill from the tanks?
Especially if you have skills such as Ultimanium in cross role which you should probably never take. I'd love to see it put in cross role for tanks, it was awesome being able to finish fights where the healer died/DC'ed because you had bloodbath or just to have some more solo potential in general.

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Originally Posted by SummerScorcher

I'm curious. If melee and ranged dps can share Second Wind, why can't melee and tanks also share Bloodbath?
Why, now that both Paladin and Dark Knight have physical AoE, remove this skill from the tanks?
Especially if you have skills such as Ultimanium in cross role which you should probably never take. I'd love to see it put in cross role for tanks, it was awesome being able to finish fights where the healer died/DC'ed because you had bloodbath or just to have some more solo potential in general.

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Well, there's that minor problem that WAR would be a walking god with it in AOE scenarios because Steel Cyclone.

And it would suck for non-DPS in any scenario other than AOE so DRK would be useless with it because they have spells for AOE.

I'd legit rather have Foresight back than Bloodbath.

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Originally Posted by InfiniDragon

Well, there's that minor problem that WAR would be a walking god with it in AOE scenarios because Steel Cyclone.

And it would suck for non-DPS in any scenario other than AOE so DRK would be useless with it because they have spells for AOE.

I'd legit rather have Foresight back than Bloodbath.

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It's funny you mention that because Steel Cyclone was only given that trait after launch to compensate for the loss of Bloodbath.

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Originally Posted by InfiniDragon

Well, there's that minor problem that WAR would be a walking god with it in AOE scenarios because Steel Cyclone.
And it would suck for non-DPS in any scenario other than AOE so DRK would be useless with it because they have spells for AOE.

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Well I mean, they could tune down SC a bit in favor of Bloodbath. I'm sure many Warriors would rather have Bloodbath than everything on Cyclone.
As for DRK, Quietus is physical AoE. It'd be a nice help to get some Hp back via Bloodbath while refilling your MP with Quietus for more AD.

WAR was extremly independent when use bloodbath on bersek windows, recovering insane amounts of HP make it practicly inmortal every 90 seconds, SE nerf that and make WAR self heals more controlable and less gamebreaking.

so no i hope bloodbath come back ever.

On Paladin and Dark Knight, it doesn't matter too much - most of Dark Knight's AOE is magical and DA-Abyssal has lifesteal and on Paladin you have Clemency if you need a good chunk of HP really quick.

For Warrior, there is a couple of problems that come up if he had Blood Bath again:

1.) Berserk boosts physical damage and Warrior is all physical. From spammable Overpower, to overzealous healing Steel Cyclone to berserked hexa-decimate, the options are massive and heal an unholy amount.
2.) With Equilibrium and ToB you already have some heal options. If you gave Warrior Blood Bath, imagine the sustain from the IR-serk combo.

While it was handy to have (and did a fair boost in enmity when dealing damage with it), I don't really miss it.

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Originally Posted by Dualgunner

It's funny you mention that because Steel Cyclone was only given that trait after launch to compensate for the loss of Bloodbath.

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Yeah, and it would have that on top of Bloodbath if they gave it back to them.

Thus the "walking god" statement. WAR would damn near full heal in large pulls with Bloodbath + new Steel Cyclone.

And if we're being super technical, Steel Cyclone had the life steal trait originally in 1.0. It was actually taken away in favor of Bloodbath in 2.0, then given back again once Bloodbath was no longer a tank thing and they realized they didn't have an AOE life steal anymore. So they just turned it back into the original version, really.

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Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

On Paladin and Dark Knight, it doesn't matter too much - most of Dark Knight's AOE is magical and DA-Abyssal has lifesteal and on Paladin you have Clemency if you need a good chunk of HP really quick.

For Warrior, there is a couple of problems that come up if he had Blood Bath again:

1.) Berserk boosts physical damage and Warrior is all physical. From spammable Overpower, to overzealous healing Steel Cyclone to berserked hexa-decimate, the options are massive and heal an unholy amount.
2.) With Equilibrium and ToB you already have some heal options. If you gave Warrior Blood Bath, imagine the sustain from the IR-serk combo.

While it was handy to have (and did a fair boost in enmity when dealing damage with it), I don't really miss it.

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See. You get it.

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Originally Posted by InfiniDragon

Yeah, and it would have that on top of Bloodbath if they gave it back to them.

Thus the "walking god" statement. WAR would damn near full heal in large pulls with Bloodbath + new Steel Cyclone.

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I imagine that they would roll that back in the hypothetical that they returned Bloodbath.

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Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

On Paladin and Dark Knight, it doesn't matter too much - most of Dark Knight's AOE is magical and DA-Abyssal has lifesteal and on Paladin you have Clemency if you need a good chunk of HP really quick.

For Warrior, there is a couple of problems that come up if he had Blood Bath again:

1.) Berserk boosts physical damage and Warrior is all physical. From spammable Overpower, to overzealous healing Steel Cyclone to berserked hexa-decimate, the options are massive and heal an unholy amount.
2.) With Equilibrium and ToB you already have some heal options. If you gave Warrior Blood Bath, imagine the sustain from the IR-serk combo.

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Uh, well,

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Originally Posted by SummerScorcher

Well I mean, they could tune down SC a bit in favor of Bloodbath. I'm sure many Warriors would rather have Bloodbath than everything on Cyclone.
As for DRK, Quietus is physical AoE. It'd be a nice help to get some Hp back via Bloodbath while refilling your MP with Quietus for more AD.

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Hexa-Decimate requires gauge buildup and is on a 2 minute cooldown. Even so, that's in 4-man content and would be a hell of a lot of fun to execute properly, doesn't SE want players to play tank more?
DRK also massively lacks sustain in ST encounters and it'd be a great help to have.

On another note, CR Bloodbath is 20 seconds in duration compared to the previous 30 seconds (for War) which is still a good amount of time, but keep that in mind.

As it stands, the problem with putting Bloodbath in as a role skill is that it very very obviously disproportionately benefits Warrior over the other two tanks; Quietus isn't spammable and Dark Knight doesn't even get it until level 64, and even between Paladin and Warrior, Total Eclipse + FoF + CoS are nowhere near as powerful as Overpower + Storm's Eye + Berserk + Steel Cyclone/Decimate. And in single-target situations, the healing on Paladin and Dark Knight would be a fart in the wind compared to how much you could get back from a Warrior's Berserk cycle.


There isn't anything inherently wrong with that, mind you - in a hypothetical version of FFXIV that's designed much better, it would probably be a good thing and actually kind of cool for different role skills to be more or less valuable depending on which class is using them - but as it stands, I think that it would create more problems than it solves.

I think people are overestimating how much hp you could get back from this, considering that even boss auto-attacks in savage content are actually quite significant. I recall seeing somewhere between 10K and 20K in O3S, and I don't see that sort of damage on my Berserk Cleaves unless I'm absurdly lucky.

I recall hearing the reason it got taken from Tanks was because it wasn't useful for savage content, but contributing a lot towards WAR's ability to superpull. That explains a lot.

People really are overestimating the amount you got from bloodbath. Bloodbath alone saved you from one, maybe two extra hits from a boss with all the healing it'd give. Even on AoE packs it just chunked your hp up enough with a single steel cyclone to last one more wave of hits.

If we wanna complain about sustain look at paladins, their heal that they can shoot off 5-6 times and has a very quick cast time shoots their HP up big time. Sure it doesn't damage but it keeps you alive more than long enough, which seems to be the concern with BB

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Originally Posted by Crater

As it stands, the problem with putting Bloodbath in as a roleskill is that it very very obviously disproportionately benefits Warrior over the other two tanks; Quietus isn't spammable and Dark Knight doesn't even get it until level 64, and even between Paladin and Warrior, Total Eclipse + FoF + CoS are nowhere near as powerful as Overpower + Storm's Eye + Berserk + Steel Cyclone/Decimate. And in single-target situations, the healing on Paladin and Dark Knight would be a fart in the wind compared to how much you could get back from a Warrior's Berserk cycle.


There isn't anything inherently wrong with that, mind you - in a hypothetical version of FFXIV that's designed much better, it would probably be a good thing and actually kind of cool for different role skills to be more or less valuable depending on which class is using them - but as it stands, I think that it would create more problems than it solves.

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You'd almost think that it was designed for that job or something...maybe that's crazy talk though.

For real though, a large majority of the problems Warrior has/had and DRK still has is because they removed massive amounts of their jobs utility and literally gave them nothing to replace it. They left gaping holes in both jobs and both of them suffered for it, DRK moreso now.

Don't know what they were thinking when they decided to remove all utility from WAR and almost all utility from DRK but left PLD completely unchanged and thought that was a good idea, especially when you do eff all to replace it .

because paladin will lose its place as a tank with best self sustain if warrior still has it
square enix loves playing favorite, after warrior in heavensward now paladin has to be 1st place in everything to match that
hopefully in 5.0 drk finally gets their chance to be the 1st place tank after 2 years of torture

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Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

On Paladin and Dark Knight, it doesn't matter too much - most of Dark Knight's AOE is magical and DA-Abyssal has lifesteal and on Paladin you have Clemency if you need a good chunk of HP really quick.

For Warrior, there is a couple of problems that come up if he had Blood Bath again:

1.) Berserk boosts physical damage and Warrior is all physical. From spammable Overpower, to overzealous healing Steel Cyclone to berserked hexa-decimate, the options are massive and heal an unholy amount.
2.) With Equilibrium and ToB you already have some heal options. If you gave Warrior Blood Bath, imagine the sustain from the IR-serk combo.

While it was handy to have (and did a fair boost in enmity when dealing damage with it), I don't really miss it.

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Make overpower or Steel CYCLONE wind based. Not effected by bloodbath.

I miss bloodbath immensely. I wish it would be brought back. It was useful. Steel cyclone just isnt a good heal in bigger pulls. Bloodbath felt better in more situations. I never felt like a god with it though, you could still get your face punched in pretty good. But it is what it is.

Am I the only one to say that I miss it because I freaking love the chaos behind pulling a shit ton and then using Bloodbath + Overpower? Lol

It also gave me joy as a healer back in 2.0 that a WAR would pull a lot and use bloodbath.

I do miss turning on blood bath and overpower and listening to that sweet sound effect.

Harkens back to my "Get to 15" days in ARR. Running around outside Aleport, gathering up 15 things, and driving that axe down.

Because every single tank has a way of self healing and even if they would add it to tanks what other cross class would you swap out? Every single one of the current cross class skills (except AoE taunt) would be a better use of a cross class skill slot.

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Originally Posted by Vhoxz

Because PLD and WAR have a way of self healing

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DRK sorta has a way of self healing, but it's not reliable and you're usually under the mercy of the healer. What DRK has for single target self sustain is pretty abysmal. And in AoE situations it has to be a lot of mobs to receive any effective self-healing via DA+AD.

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Originally Posted by Vhoxz

Because every single tank has a way of self healing and even if they would add it to tanks what other cross class would you swap out? Every single one of the current cross class skills (except AoE taunt) would be a better use of a cross class skill slot.

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You answered your own question there.