SCH / SCH synergy in raids is lacking. How would you fix it?

If you happen to stumble upon a duty raid with 2 SCH healers you're at a disadvantage compared to any other combination.

SCH / SCH - overwrites one another's shielding and can only turn those shields into additional healing at a limited basis.

SCH / AST - AST can switch stances so their shields don't overwrite.

SCH / WHM - No overwriting here either with shields and regen.

WHM / AST - AST can work with WHM in either stance effectively.

WHM / WHM - Stack regen.

AST / AST - For reasons similar to the above.


So why is SCH the only healer that can't play nice with itself? I always feel bad as a SCH when I am in a group with another SCH. It is true you can switch shields to additional heals thus helping you mitigate any overriding of shielding (or having yours cancel out) but that's limited.


Part of me wants to say if a shield is already on a character when another shield skill is cast it could automatically become a weak regen instead?

What do you think?

They normally don't plan on healers doubling up with the same Healer.

AST cards overwrite eachother.

WHM lack an aoe dmg mitigation. Like CO or SS.

Generally they don't want healers to be the same Healer. High end content hurts when you double Healers. I would say scholars get it the worst, but low end content like 24 mans and duty finder is really the only place this happens.

Dissipation becomes like a AST sect.

By Dissipating your fairy, you gain their abilities and a healing buff to compensate (more of a pure healer)

As with Miles, I wouldn't change a thing TBH. All 3 healers face issues when doubled up, I have it in my head that ASTs can't stack regens for example? Could be wrong on this one tho!

In challenging content WHM / WHM is actually more problematic due to the complete lack of party mitigation. I've cleared O4S as double WHM, each and every Almagest was 'interesting', particularly the one right after GC Omega where you can't just sit there and drop Cure III bombs through it.

In trivial content where you're likely to end up with doubled up healers, it frankly doesn't matter. Any of the 3 healers could solo heal it with baseline gear and a modicum of attention.

I think it's fine. If content is easy enough to be puggable, this wouldn't be an issue. If the content is difficult, you would have a static, or at least party finder for it, thus you can avoid double classes.

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

As with Miles, I wouldn't change a thing TBH. All 3 healers face issues when doubled up, I have it in my head that ASTs can't stack regens for example? Could be wrong on this one tho!

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I believe you're correct. That said, one of them could go Noct so that one is a bit easier to get around. Kinda weird that it doesn't stack when Regen does, though.

I agree that nothing needs to be “fixed.”

SCHs have every tool necessary to deal with DF content if they happened to be paired together (as do the other twin healer comps), and bringing two different healer Jobs for planned parties should continue to be encouraged.

I feel like AST / AST suffers even more than SCH / SCH, and would personally only like to see SCH / SCH fixed if the other healer self-pairs get the same treatment.

The whole game incentivates you to not play duplicates in a party. If anything, double SCH can double Eos and that's pretty strong for any DF matched content (when you usually get duplicates).

Double eos is a bad idea, like with ast our fairy sect should always be oneis using eos and the other is using selene. The fairies' buffs like our Galvanize don't stack but overwrite eachother. Unless you are being super coordinated, which the df content never is your better not letting that happen.

On the other hand, double Selene grants 100% Fey Wind uptime~

You don't for the same reason every double heals sucks

AST/AST is a headack regarding cards management and a pain because of low healing output.
Heal ShinRyu as 2 ast, you'll start loving WHM and SCH

WHM/WHM has no shields making phase transition non trivial (if not impossible) for most hard fights.

And finally, loosing LB charges isn't very desirable

WHM/WHM has it worst since some fight would simply not be clearable. For instance, I don't see most non tank survive on Shinryu during the eggxplosion phase. Often some dps/ heal end with with a few remaining % and that's after shield mitigation.

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Originally Posted by Miles_Maelstrom

Double eos is a bad idea, like with ast our fairy sect should always be oneis using eos and the other is using selene. The fairies' buffs like our Galvanize don't stack but overwrite eachother. Unless you are being super coordinated, which the df content never is your better not letting that happen.

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Have to disagree with this. Selene is flat out, no questions asked, worse than Eos in every fight. The absolute utility Eos brings trumps 2.5% haste in every sense.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

Have to disagree with this. Selene is flat out, no questions asked, worse than Eos in every fight. The absolute utility Eos brings trumps 2.5% haste in every sense.

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Not saying she isn't but she is better then a fairy being negated by her buffs being overwritten by the other fairy in the group essentially doing nothing. Once again we're talking DF content you could just run sans fairy and be fine.

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Originally Posted by Morphiana

So why is SCH the only healer that can't play nice with itself? I always feel bad as a SCH when I am in a group with another SCH. It is true you can switch shields to additional heals thus helping you mitigate any overriding of shielding (or having yours cancel out) but that's limited.

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Having stackable shields would break the fights and be way to strong. Just imagine stacking 2 crit adlos and you don't even need to play certain mechanics at all. Reggen are not game breaking in the same sense. It is the opossite actually. Double Reggen works now with the high ilvl, but at the start of an new raid tier you want to have reggen + shields. In theory you could run with 2 scholars, but why would you use double classes anyway? You get less lb "progress" and you have less skills available, if you look at the complete group.

But if you still want to stick with 2 scholar, then having one using eos, the other selene and coordinate the shields (especially adlo spread) should work. Plus make the most use of skills like indom. It needs more coordinate and is bad to begin with, but just like double ast and the card issue or double whm and the mitigation issue, it is possible. Again, i just don't see a reason to do it in hard content. I dunno about your reggen idea either, because the game shouldn't embrace people using double classes imo.

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Originally Posted by Tridus

I believe you're correct. That said, one of them could go Noct so that one is a bit easier to get around. Kinda weird that it doesn't stack when Regen does, though.

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It is not rare nowadays to see scholars do an 20k+ critlo with certain buffs up. This alone is an 40k+ shield and if it would be possible to stacking it, you'd have an 80k+ shield. Many boss attacks wouldn't hurt you anymore, even without other mitigation used. You could literally let dd take tank busters then xD

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Originally Posted by era1Ne

It is not rare nowadays to see scholars do an 20k+ critlo with certain buffs up. This alone is an 40k+ shield and if it would be possible to stacking it, you'd have an 80k+ shield. Many boss attacks wouldn't hurt you anymore, even without other mitigation used. You could literally let dd take tank busters then xD

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I was talking about Diurnal not stacking with itself. :) Yes, stacking shields would effectively break everything.

They could make it so up to two Galvanize (from different players) can stack but when they stack they are both reduced to some percentage of their strength, to be determined with testing. I'd guess 75%.

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Originally Posted by era1Ne

It is not rare nowadays to see scholars do an 20k+ critlo with certain buffs up.

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Upper range is around 11k crit. Largesse and Convalescence together will give you 15k.

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Originally Posted by Tridus

I was talking about Diurnal not stacking with itself. :) Yes, stacking shields would effectively break everything.

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My bad then. Sorry :(
If i would have to guess, than i'd say they just want ast using different stances playing together and having 2 whm not being able to stack reggen would be probably to weak. I dunno.

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Originally Posted by PondHollow

Upper range is around 11k crit. Largesse and Convalescence together will give you 15k.

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It depends on the amount of crit and what gear you've got and which buffs are applied. If you have an bard and warrior you can go really high. Even higher with mantra from a monk. Largesse + Fey Illumination + Bufffood from yourself, then Defiance and Conva from the tank + Nature's Minne. But you are right saying 20k isn't rare was to much, since without does buffs you won't be able to reach it and most of the time you are only able to stack that many buffs pre pull in v4s (second fight) for example. Works great for almagast. Doing that fight every week created my perception of those "not rare 20k crits". My apologies.

PS: I have reached 19k outside of an instance with just FI, largesse + conva + Def and my gear. No buffood, no partybuff, and so on. Here is a picture of the test:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...0/critadlo.png

Edit: New FF14 week \o/. Here are two examples of 20k+ crits. Just for fun.
https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...27009/adlo.png

Having recently done double SCH in several instances (World of Darkness and non-Savage DeltascapeV4.0) I have to say it wasn't terrible. Just required paying attention and communication. I learned the hard way Chain Strategem doesn't stack when we both opened with it. I did see that Eos' regen does stack, which was nice (unless I hallucinated that). Having one using Eos and one using Selene was nice too, for Fey Wind and all of Eos' buffs, and the group esuna is nice too for the removable debuffs like Exdeath's Doom. But double Eos is the way to go for the buffs to on more often.

There were times though, that it was frustrating because shields don't stack, and it felt like wasting MP, but again, paying attention and using Physick instead of Aldo when someone was galvanized saved a bunch of MP.

If 2 fairy's target the same player with Fey Union at the same time, the effect changes from single regen to pulse bomb aoe regen.... I can only dream...