Rival wings issue

it all find and danny to be able switch jobs in Rival wings but when you up again 15 healers and two tank then you got issue i hope devs will look into this issues

Just switch to healer too and hope 14 of your comrades do the same.

it expliot through

i mean this could be done since secure. just deal with it aint nothing you or anyone can do.

a suggest to the devs have the genarator on a timer a and when reach it end the timer of say minute a spell activate in generator room called healing negative if more 15 player are in the genarator room which cause all heal to have oppsite effect and cause harm to they allies this way one can't hold the genarator room indifferently in battleground. another suggest have genarator be on elavater system after a minute of combat it have pool lava under and reset who has control over it this also make imppossible for generator room to be control indifferent aswell it also reset who in control of it. use expliot are in fact a bannable offensives i simple suggest way to avoidance such behavior in the future

How is healing an exploit? The game allows for parties of four healers, so where's the unintended behavior or breaking of game code/functionality?

your break game machanic by hold something indifferently the machanic of rival wings is that the genorator room is suppose flip between group if you have 15 healers hold the entire time that abusive the machanic of rival wings

No. An exploit is abusing something overlooked in the system for benefit. Have people done groups of nothing but mostly healers in previous 24 man stuff? Yes.

Why are people going as healer in the newest 24 man stuff? Because of survive-ability. More people have more more MP to recover everyone's HP, making it harder for the enemy to KO you.

It's not an 'exploit' as you're calling it, it's called a strategy. Are you booty bothered that someone's strategy managed to kill your team and pull out a win?

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Originally Posted by Savagelf

your break game machanic by hold something indifferently the machanic of rival wings is that the genorator room is suppose flip between group if you have 15 healers hold the entire time that abusive the machanic of rival wings

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Also I'd like to add.....if one side has a better strategy against the other side, it does NOT NEED TO FLIP.

Healers are basically the meta for PvP right now, as doing somewhat less DPS in exchange for being virtually immortal is a bit of an unbalanced trade-off, especially when there are objectives that simply require staying alive instead of actually killing anything.

If they want PvP to ever be properly be balanced, they need to require a certain number of each role for frontlines or else people are just going to stack whatever is the most overpowered at the moment.

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Originally Posted by Bacent

No. An exploit is abusing something overlooked in the system for benefit. Have people done groups of nothing but mostly healers in previous 24 man stuff? Yes.

Why are people going as healer in the newest 24 man stuff? Because of survive-ability. More people have more more MP to recover everyone's HP, making it harder for the enemy to KO you..

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It's mostly multiple healers are much more powerful than single ones. They can rotate their cooldowns to cover each other, and it can be impossible to dislodge them from a point without near overwhelming force. This isn't bad when everyone fights, but in a game where you have a lot of small actions it can be fatal. And if you have 7 healers out of 24 players, every small unit fight will have one.

It's not an exploit, but it shines the poor balance of large scale PvP.

This is definitely a strategy, not an exploit. In FFXI there were a few fights that could be won faster, better, etc. with several people onthe same jobs. Dark knights with Kraken clubs for the Absolute Virtue fight comes to mind, as do Summoners using Leviathan in the Fenrir fight.

Speaking as someone who has gone into pvp on FFXIV as a healer and found myself the target of any other type of job who spotted me, I find this thread rather amusing.

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Originally Posted by Zarabeth

This is definitely a strategy, not an exploit. In FFXI there were a few fights that could be won faster, better, etc. with several people onthe same jobs. Dark knights with Kraken clubs for the Absolute Virtue fight comes to mind, as do Summoners using Leviathan in the Fenrir fight.

Speaking as someone who has gone into pvp on FFXIV as a healer and found myself the target of any other type of job who spotted me, I find this thread rather amusing.

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You can't use PvE logic in PvP.

You are supposed to be the target of enemies, and your team is supposed to keep people off you, being unkillable is not good PvP balance.

If they're dedicating 15 of their 24 players holding the generator, why isn't your team absolutely crushing their mechs?

Honestly, 15 of any type will hold the generator. When the opponent dedicates all but 3 of their non-mech players, you let them have it. Use your swarm to eat the mechs and waste away all the ceruleum you're getting, and pick up canisters with a few strays. Their strategy is sound, but it's not invincible. Trying to fight them on equal ground is obviously what loses you that engagement.

Sounds like they should add MP draining to Bards and Mechanics in PVP. If they want to heal, they'll have to sit further back and potentially out of range of their melee.

Or perhaps more healing dubuffs to melees.

Bit of an edit as I had a thought. When I played Planetside 2, there was an issue with trying to take points from medic stacked squads. Medics can heal and rez and even have the ability to AOE instant rez about 4 times before needing to restock.

As you can imagine, that's pretty powerful. The counter to it was simply to AOE them out or MAX crash. MAXes were battle armor, basically suits with nearly the power of vehicles and could go wherever anyone on foot could go.

Medics simply didn't have the damage to deal with them they could rez but just get mowed down. And the counter to MAX crash was to use classes other than medics. I wonder if the machines need more damage to players instead? Or some other similar rock/paper/scissors setup.

If they don't plan on nerfing healers, I don't think it would be unreasonable to allow mechs to enter or at least fire into the generator room to apply more pressure on those trying to hold it.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

If they don't plan on nerfing healers, I don't think it would be unreasonable to allow mechs to enter or at least fire into the generator room to apply more pressure on those trying to hold it.

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Or maybe add a smaller suit version for that purpose similar to MAXes in PS2 like I said in my edit. Something like what you see Nero, Gaius, Livia, and Zenos using.

I seriously hate how strong healers are in PvP. Maybe I was spoiled from Seal Rock days when I could FC a healer to death but the really need to buckle down on the balance. Healer stacking is nothing new but there needs to be a cap of two healing buffs per player. Example: if a player has regen and medica II already in effect then they cannot receive a diurnal aspected helios or even an adloquium. They also need to introduce a rock-paper-scissor mechanic, ex,

DPS deal 20% more damage to Tanks
Healers deal 20% more damage to DPS
Tanks deal 20% more damage to Healers

No damage bonus when attacking same class or class that you are strong against. I personally feel something like this would help streamline attack priority instead of just an entire party attacking a healer which is literally the only strat that most players do when they see a party with a healer.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

allow mechs to enter or at least fire into the generator

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Even though there is a barrier you can already do this to some degree. Brute Justice megabeam and flamethrower could hit them.

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Originally Posted by Marxam

Example: if a player has regen and medica II already in effect then they cannot receive a diurnal aspected helios or even an adloquium.

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You are sure those abilities all exist in current PvP?

mega beam other wise i would said the rival wings is success

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Originally Posted by Marxam

Example: if a player has regen and medica II already in effect then they cannot receive a diurnal aspected helios or even an adloquium

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https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/jobguide/pvp/

You can only have 1 type of regen on you at a time. So if another whm on your team uses regen, or even an ast regen, it overwrites your own. They do not stack. Also Medica II isn't usable in PvP

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Originally Posted by Bacent

You can only have 1 type of regen on you at a time. So if another whm on your team uses regen, or even an ast regen, it overwrites your own. They do not stack. Also Medica II isn't usable in PvP

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Yes, thank god for that. I remember before the change when premades would have full groups of WHM all using Medica II. They'd be functionally immortal and every single battle would become a pointless war of attrition in their favor. It was never a common occurrence (at least for me), but it always gave me high blood pressure when I encountered it.

So I'm a little torn on the subject. Knowing how bad they were before, I don't think it's so terrible now. I just think the biggest problem currently is they do too much damage in conjunction with their recovery options.

If it's a matter of wanting recovery spells potent enough to keep healers from becoming "useless" in a PvP setting, SE could easily adjust it so spells do full potency on party members, but reduced potency to the caster. I dunno, whatever.

You know a good way to counter the healers? Have a team of 20 ninja's (insert any other burst dps) and 4 healers. I guarantee the ninja's will focus kill a healer faster than they can be kept alive. Focus each healer individually and bam, you beat the system. Plus with 4 healer's you can keep enough alive to keep going for a while.

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Originally Posted by Savagelf

your break game machanic by hold something indifferently the machanic of rival wings is that the genorator room is suppose flip between group if you have 15 healers hold the entire time that abusive the machanic of rival wings

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Oh yay, more people complaining about how "strong" healers are, that middle is some magical holy land that gives an immense power boost and thinking that when more than half the opponents are in 1 location away from everyone else and anything productive, that means they will magically win somehow.

Here is something I just wrote in the PvP forums

First of all, mid is useless with getting mechs out early. Mid only helps in the long run if you can keep it under control for a long time. But it certainly doesn't help enough to justify having 15 people just sit there to protect it.

Second of all. If 15 players from your opponents are in the middle protecting the generator, just ignore it. That's 62.5% of the enemy force all in 1 location away from anything else. Almost half of the opponents. This means you have so much space collecting CE tanks and pushing lanes. If there are only 37.5% of the enemy player base doing something productive and not just sitting down, you can easily destroy the enemy towers with Mammets alone. And not to mention all those CE tanks you can easily pick up means you can also have mechs out in no time to help with the pushes.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

Healers are basically the meta for PvP right now, as doing somewhat less DPS in exchange for being virtually immortal is a bit of an unbalanced trade-off, especially when there are objectives that simply require staying alive instead of actually killing anything.

If they want PvP to ever be properly be balanced, they need to require a certain number of each role for frontlines or else people are just going to stack whatever is the most overpowered at the moment.

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all it takes to kill a healer are 2 moderately skilled dps players, or one very skilled Tank, especially if theyre a dark knight.

the west side of rival wings is longer than the east side.

so the east side will always get to the generator first. why is this?

Where is my crowd control skills? =<

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Originally Posted by Sylvina

one very skilled Tank, especially if theyre a dark knight.

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That's some fairytale, thank you. (DRK soloing a healer)

In order to kill a good healer, you need 2 good DPS, 1 good tank and great timing with DPS burst and Tank chain-CC. Otherwise that healer is bad at surviving.

This coordination is impossible [without voice chat] in Rival Wings, when people mostly play solo with a left leg, unless they are a premade.

They finally made playing a healer in pvp fun and worthwhile again...It's less that we're OP and more that healers have been rare for a while, so people don't know how to deal with quantities of them strategically. If the other team is doing something you can't beat, it's not an 'exploit'...you just need to step up your game and find a counter strategy.

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Originally Posted by Lukha

They finally made playing a healer in pvp fun and worthwhile again...It's less that we're OP and more that healers have been rare for a while, so people don't know how to deal with quantities of them strategically. If the other team is doing something you can't beat, it's not an 'exploit'...you just need to step up your game and find a counter strategy.

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Or that the game needs some balancing and some CC skills

Getting outplayed is an exploit now?

-cough-

https://i.imgur.com/f5gEHNN.png

Easy win.
15 healers total (2 others was in party)

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

If they don't plan on nerfing healers, I don't think it would be unreasonable to allow mechs to enter or at least fire into the generator room to apply more pressure on those trying to hold it.

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It could potentially be a very unfair advantage if mechs could attack in the Generator/Caves. If the team with initial mechs can prevent the other team from getting ceruleum, then you've got one team with a monopoly on mechs.

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Originally Posted by Zeonsilt

That's some fairytale, thank you. (DRK soloing a healer)

In order to kill a good healer, you need 2 good DPS, 1 good tank and great timing with DPS burst and Tank chain-CC. Otherwise that healer is bad at surviving.

This coordination is impossible [without voice chat] in Rival Wings, when people mostly play solo with a left leg, unless they are a premade.

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Absolute nonsense you don't need 2 dps AND A tank to kill a healer. not if all the players involved are on roughly the same skill level. and there's nothing broken about someone having more practice and thus more skill.

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Originally Posted by Beckett

It could potentially be a very unfair advantage if mechs could attack in the Generator/Caves. If the team with initial mechs can prevent the other team from getting ceruleum, then you've got one team with a monopoly on mechs.

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Cruise Chaser technically can fire inside the Generator room with its proximity mine thing. If you're on the bridge and aim it properly, you can get it fairly in the center of the room and cause a lot of problems. Had that happen while doing RW with a friend earlier. x.x

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvnLi1jtO6s

They will be tweaks. I didn't see this but ya when I go healer in frontlines. I and distract 2 people without dieing. So I'm 1 person preventing 2 people from ever going after ice.
That being said. A simple fix is in Rival wings more then 1 healer job per group means cures cut in 1/2.

There is more than 1 way to win. Just because the opponent win 1 aspect/scenario, doesn't mean you can't counter them. Really, one way isn't more efficient/effective than the other. The overall numbers matched, what I see is more laZyness because they don't want to bother ways other than 'Zerging' (i.e actually doing the solo work/route).

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Originally Posted by Fourbestintoner

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvnLi1jtO6s

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I have more question about the cannon than the healer, afaik south lane doesn't have any blind spot for cannons. North has one but its at oppressor's fire range (that' the only flaw in mechanics I've seen)

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Originally Posted by Sylvina

Absolute nonsense you don't need 2 dps AND A tank to kill a healer.

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This is actually the most effective way of killing a healer, but that says a lot when you need a 4v4 setup in a 24 man to get something accomplished, amirite?

Ever wonder why we were put in teams of four rather than teams of 6 or 8?