Request for clarification on License in relation to Perform

Specifically, can we get clarification about performing known public domain songs or tunes or melodies? For example:

• Classical music like Beethoven, Bach, Mozart, etc.
• Old music that are old enough to have lost all copyright protection
• New music specifically declared to be under public domain by the author

Are we allowed to perform the above? Do the above music count as performing "music of a third party" and hence a violation of the license?

Please no replies on whether enforcement is likely or not. That's besides the point. I'm looking for a legally binding official clarification on the license from Square Enix.

Bumping this because inquiring minds want to know. I've figured out some older folk songs with the perform action and was going to put something together but won't until I know it's safe to do so.

Interestingly enough, I posted a question about this very same thing only a few minutes after yours was posted.

I was thinking much the same thing about Public Domain songs; since there is no copyright, why would such things be restricted? :confused:

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Originally Posted by Fyce

The reason why they are doing this is because Square Enix claims ownership of anything you do with/within the game. This includes videos, screenshots, and now performances.
So when you play Stairway to Heaven, Square Enix claims that what you just did belong to them... which means that they can get sued by Led Zeppelin for having the rights on an illegal reproduction of the song.

This could've been easily solved if they denied ownership of songs made with the Perform action, but no, they still want to play the greedy card and still claim everything you make with the game (which isn't even legal as they are ignoring quite a lot of aspect of the copyright laws regarding derivative/original work).

Edit: Oh, btw, this also means that you are not even allowed to play you own personal songs, because it would make you able to sue Square Enix since your song has been reproduced ingame and that they claim ownership of it. Yes, this is extremely stupid.

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From another thread.

tl;dr, yes even public domain songs count as 'music of a third party'. Basically anything that isn't from FFXIV count as 3rd party songs (including 3 Nobuo Uematsu's songs).

Ok, but the catch being that, if something is registered in Public Domain, nobody can claim ownership of it - that's kinda the point of the public domain. They can, perhaps, claim ownership of the performance of said piece, but not the piece itself. There's always a loophole.

And, if I'm being honest, if Squenix is claiming ownership of everything that is done via the Perform emote...why the flying, fuzzy <explative deleted> would anyone use it?

I'm not familiar with US/JP copyright laws. But in my country (Taiwan), there's a clear separation between copyright "property rights" and "personality rights". Even works that have lost copyright protection will only have lost the "property rights" associated with the work, but never the "personality rights", which are perpetual and untransferrable. The personality right is basically your right to claim that you are the author of your works. In that sense, it feels as if things that end up in public domain can still be said to be "of a third party".

I'm not a lawyer, so I may just be confusing myself with a non-issue. But excatly because I'm not a lawyer, I'd like the only opinion that matters on this forum, i.e. official response, since no other player account has a verification of qualification that I can rely on, so who knows if someone's argument is really that of a copyright lawyer or if it's just another keyboard warrior like me thinking we know everything?

Hence, please, an official response.

There may be an issue with the performance of music itself, regardless of the origin & copyright status. If you think about it, SE have said that you can play music from this game, in this game. All you are doing is offering something already licensed to this product in a different style. By playing something not specifically associated with the game it could be an issue about it being classed as 'additional content' that SE hasn't informed the authorities of (for them to check & approve).

I know what I mean but it's very hard to put it in words. XD

I'm beginning to think that Squenix isn't going to give us an "official" response to this very legitimate question...

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Originally Posted by Shaddranat

I'm beginning to think that Squenix isn't going to give us an "official" response to this very legitimate question...

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They can't. The disclaimer that 'bars' us is only to cover their butt if a composer hears something similar to their stuff on a youtube video of a character playing it. That's it.

They can't enforce this. I jokingly said in another thread that: whenever someone plays a song, a half a dozen GMs descend around you with keen ears and knowledge of varying eras of songs from around the world to make sure you are in compliance.

Yeah it sounds ridiculous because it is. They can't do that. They can't even send GMs around to watch for bots, they're not going to bother with performances. But if you all simply want to follow the rules out of principle. Then here's the clarification:

All music you compose must be your original song. Don't mimic or remix anything else.
Also all music pieces you perform in game become property of SquareEnix and you may not use it outside the game.

Follow those guidelines, or don't. I doubt anything would come of it. But its up to you all.

When I played Archeage and did custom music I did several pieces from various games and movies. Never had an issue. Same with Minecraft.

It's a good point. I would think anything, none sue-able would be fine.

The funniest thing about this whole FFXIV covering their butt over potential copyright issues is:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBu2pPyhAwg vs. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBjc7ojnAaU

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Originally Posted by Shaddranat

I'm beginning to think that Squenix isn't going to give us an "official" response to this very legitimate question...

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Pretty doubtful that SE's lawyers are forum regulars.

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Originally Posted by Hasrat

Pretty doubtful that SE's lawyers are forum regulars.

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Which is irrelevant. There are forum mods and community managers who are responsible for picking up feedback from the forums and relaying it to the relevant team.

Perhaps it's just a catch all statement so that people can't claim ignorance of what is and isn't public domain when deliberately flaunting the rules? The fewer loopholes there are then the easier it is to theoretically enforce right?

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Originally Posted by Mhaeric

The funniest thing about this whole FFXIV covering their butt over potential copyright issues is:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBu2pPyhAwg vs. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBjc7ojnAaU

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Just check out Sephirot and King Moogle Mog on youtube and the first comments are- "THIS IS WHAT IT'S LIKE WHEN WORLDS COLLIDE!!!" "This is Halloween"

But I agree, I find it ridiculous that SE gives us the opportunity to play whatever music we want but then gives us huge limitations. Then they parody or slightly change music.

But have others have said- it's not like they are going to monitor you so you can technically play what you want.

For me,I’m not worry about it at all.I will play whatever I want,whenever I want.
I just want to have fun,kill time,entertain people etc.

In spirit of upcoming holidays, I was wondering if Christmas Carols too fall under the "don't play in public" songs?

My main concern is that it feels like players are essentially being held hostage. The perform feature is something present in various other MMO's and none of them - to my knowledge - have such a strict policy in place nor have they had any legal issues to the point where the feature has had to be removed from those games entirely. There would be a lot of understandable backlash if the perform feature were to be removed from FFXIV, regardless of the reasoning. It's clear that there are plans to expand it over time so if at any point it is removed then that is cutting out not only current content but future content as well.

I would also be very annoyed if players start getting banned for performing third party songs in-game when known win traders have gone unpunished for multiple seasons in ranked PvP despite multiple reports...and Frontlines has been infested with botters ever since experience was added as a reward for both winning and losing. In short, I'm hoping it's just legal stuff to cover all their bases.

I wish Square Enix just contacted the composers they had working for them and have them sign that they won't pursue legal actions would be more than happy if in the end every Square Enix games music is okey for us to play no questions asked

If square enix owns our original songs once they're performed in game we should all write the most horribly offensive music (add lyrics via chat) we can possibly muster.... obviously do it away from the public as to avoid harassment claims... then see how much of our creations SE really wants to own lmao

Cover is a cover.