Aetherytes, Garleans, and You!

Okay, there's really no "and you," but I was wondering if Garleans inability to manipulate aether means they can't use aetherytes. I seem to remember Y'shtola saying that Thancred couldn't use them any more after his dip into the Lifestream messed with his magic; would something similar apply to Garleans?

Pure-born Garleans, most definitely, for exactly the reason you mentioned. Having said that, like everything it seems the Garleans have developed a technological alternative to teleporting instead - they appear to make use of a magitek transporter gate that connects their crag-like Castri to a nearby landform (this is actually why Cape Westwind exists - it's the location of the transporter gate for Castrum Marinum that lies offshore on a rocky island in the Rhotano Strait, hence this was actually the true objective for the fight against Rhiatayn during Operation Archon.

We weren't just there to assassinate him and take him out of the equation, we were also there to destroy, or at least shut down, the transporter gate there in order to prevent Castrum Marinum sending troops through it into Thanalan to reinforce Castrum Meridanium - which we do by literally killing two birds with one stone - the death blow we land on Rhiatayn sends him flying backwards at the gate, the force of his weight impacting the delicate magitek device so severely as to effectively destroy it. The Gration's landing spot in Azys Lla has also apparently gained a similar gate, allowing the VIth to quickly evacuate troops onto the Delta Quadrant, establishing several rudimentary bases there.

Either way, it's clear the Garleans cannot use teleportation magic, instead they make use of magitek transporter gates which effectively serve the same purpose (albeit with a fixed departure and destination point).

Kind of makes you wonder why the Garleans allowed aetherytes to even exist in Doma and Ala Mhigo. You'd think they wouldn't want constant reminders of their genetic disability everywhere.

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Originally Posted by Mysterysword

Kind of makes you wonder why the Garleans allowed aetherytes to even exist in Doma and Ala Mhigo. You'd think they wouldn't want constant reminders of their genetic disability everywhere.

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Pureblood Garleans aren't common out in the provinces, so allowing everyone else (which includes the majority of their armies) the ability to get from point a to point b effectively isn't a bad idea

I'd also point out that Regula van Hydrus is shown to use some manner of teleportation during the Warring Triad quest chain. So there's direct evidence of a Pureblood Garlean making use of teleportation - though I'm inclined to believe he simply attuned himself to the magitek gate overlooking The Gration in Ayzs Lla.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

I'd also point out that Regula van Hydrus is shown to use some manner of teleportation during the Warring Triad quest chain. So there's direct evidence of a Pureblood Garlean making use of teleportation - though I'm inclined to believe he simply attuned himself to the magitek gate overlooking The Gration in Ayzs Lla.

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Could be that Hydrus simply had his armour outfitted with some sort of magitek field generator that could duplicate aetheryte teleportation effects. I'm not sure Pureblood Garleans can attune themselves to an Aetheryte like other Hydaelyneans can.

Based on how there's a cable linking the transporter gate to the destination, we can probably guess at how they work. Garleans can't manipulate aether but they are still comprised of aether like everyone else. If a Pure-Blooded Garlean were to try to use an aetheryte, best case scenario is nothing would happen, worst case is their aether would dissipate and they'd die. I posit that the transporter gates work by breaking you down into aether and then transferring you safely through the cable, then reconstructing you on the other side.

Regula's teleportation was likely a wireless version, connected via a pair of beacons within his armor and the Gration.

Also there are Magitek Transporters in Dzemael Darkhold, along with various "stand in this to activate" magitek devices, for some reason. (Seriously, why the heck would anyone build a device that only activates when someone stands in it and twiddles their thumbs for a minute?)

I don't recall if the transporters have wires leading out of them.

From what I understand, the reason why there is magitek transporters in Dzemael Darkhold (and Thousand Maws of Toto-Rak) is that those dungeons were originally from FFXIV 1.0 and their pre-Calamity versions the Garleans (specifically, Nael's VIIth Legion) had actually infiltrated them and set those devices up to allow easier transport through them. Needless to say, the Garleans no longer occupy those areas by the time of ARR, but their equipment still remains.

One of the loremasters would be able to give further information on this though (including why the Garleans were infiltrating those dungeons in the first place).

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Originally Posted by YianKutku

Seriously, why the heck would anyone build a device that only activates when someone stands in it and twiddles their thumbs for a minute?

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Note that most of those devices happen to be in rather hazardous areas. Off the top of my head, only the first and last sections of the dungeon have them. In the first section, we see those devices everywhere, apparently being used to trap the ahriman flying around in those tunnels, and none of them were inside the purple protection crystals. In the third section, we have two blue circles at once, both smack dab in the range of giant exploding crystals.

So maybe those devices weren't actually the main way to open the gates, just really stupid traps that somehow allow intruders to unlock the gates if they survive long enough.

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

Either way, it's clear the Garleans cannot use teleportation magic, instead they make use of magitek transporter gates which effectively serve the same purpose (albeit with a fixed departure and destination point).

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Thanks for the comprehensive answer! I guess this means that Cid and Lucia have to travel by airship only?

Full disclosure: I'm asking for nefarious reasons. I'm writing a fic involving Cid, and it occurred to me that he can't just use the aetheryte from Rhalgr's Reach to get to Foundation.

I think it might be theoretically possible for someone else to cast Teleport for a Garlean. At its core, the concept of teleportation involves breaking your body down to its component aether, hitching that aether to a ride on the Lifestream, and popping back out at specific preset aetheric "beacons" - in this case, aetheryte crystals.

The Garleans' inability to cast this spell is purely because they cannot innately manipulate aether, but their souls and bodies are still made out of it. If somebody else could break down the Garlean's body for them and send them into the Lifestream, they might be able to do the rest themself. As shown in-game, it is possible to cast Teleport for someone else.

Oh it is definitely not only theoretically possible for someone else to teleport a pure-born Garlean, technically we've already seen this happen at least once. It was presumably how Livia and her unit of shock troops were able to enter the Waking Sands and raid the place without being seen by the Immortal Flames guards patrolling Vesper Bay outside. Lahabrea teleported them directly inside - in his Thancred-suit he would not have raised suspicion and probably just waltzed right in through the front door past Tataru, and once inside thus could freely teleport Livia and her martial thugs inside before anyone knew what was happening.

Presumably the previously mentioned Garlean magitek transporter rings probably work in a similar manner to the spell by breaking down the body's aether and sending over wires to the destination gate.

But this is all speculation so take from that what you will. :)

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

Oh it is definitely not only theoretically possible for someone else to teleport a pure-born Garlean, technically we've already seen this happen at least once. It was presumably how Livia and her unit of shock troops were able to enter the Waking Sands and raid the place without being seen by the Immortal Flames guards patrolling Vesper Bay outside. Lahabrea teleported them directly inside - in his Thancred-suit he would not have raised suspicion and probably just waltzed right in through the front door past Tataru, and once inside thus could freely teleport Livia and her martial thugs inside before anyone knew what was happening.

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I thought they flew directly in. It's been a really long time since I watched the 2.0 story, though, but I'd always imagined that they dropped directly into Vesper Bay with a small airship, and left the same way. Otherwise it raises the question of how they got their Scion prisoners out of there as well.

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Originally Posted by Mysterysword

I thought they flew directly in. It's been a really long time since I watched the 2.0 story, though, but I'd always imagined that they dropped directly into Vesper Bay with a small airship, and left the same way. Otherwise it raises the question of how they got their Scion prisoners out of there as well.

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Not really. Lahabrea is (er, was) incredibly powerful and probably used a quick trip to the Ascian dimension to get people in and out with as little "mess" as possible.

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Originally Posted by Mysterysword

I thought they flew directly in. It's been a really long time since I watched the 2.0 story, though, but I'd always imagined that they dropped directly into Vesper Bay with a small airship, and left the same way. Otherwise it raises the question of how they got their Scion prisoners out of there as well.

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When the player first arrives outside the Waking Sands in that scene a crowd of villagers is clustered around outside who state they've all heard screaming coming from inside but saw nothing else. A Garlean airship, even a small one, would kind of be noticeable if it landed in the middle of a major port town like Vesper Bay (to say nothing of an Immortal Flames encampment literally next door to the place would have immediately rushed to it's defense if that had been the case.) But all that was known was suddenly there was a commotion inside that was heard by everyone outside, but no one knew exactly what was happening:

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Originally Posted by ARR main scenario quest 'All Good Things'

Disquieted Villager (outside the Waking Sands): "You hear that commotion just now? What in the seven hells were they doin' in there? Wrestlin' a peiste!? You look like the adventurin' type. Mind taking a quick look?"
Frightened Villager: "...Was that screaming I heard? I'm not sure I want to know..."

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In fact, even why the Garleans were even there (to try and capture the player's character) clued Minfilia in that this was no ordinary raid - that they had infiltrated the place magically instead of by mundane means (Livia naturally waves her thought aside). So Lahabrea teleporting the Garleans in and then out with their Scion prisoners is the only logical way that they could have infiltrated the Waking Sands without anyone outside noticing.

To clarify: Lahabrea teleported the Garlean strike team directly into the Waking Sands, without any sort of aetherial beacon to send them to? It actually makes me wonder why he needed to possess Thancred for this, unless that was solely to find out the exact location of the Waking Sands, which seems unlikely because there were a lot of people who already knew where the Scions were, and he could probably have possessed some other, lower-profile Scion adventurer Or was it that he needed to possess Thancred in order to bypass whatever security measures they had on the Waking Sands?

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Originally Posted by Mysterysword

It actually makes me wonder why he needed to possess Thancred for this, unless that was solely to find out the exact location of the Waking Sands, which seems unlikely because there were a lot of people who already knew where the Scions were, and he could probably have possessed some other, lower-profile Scion adventurer Or was it that he needed to possess Thancred in order to bypass whatever security measures they had on the Waking Sands?

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Trust. He was an Archon, one of the most trusted and respected members of the Scions. He had access to all sorts of information that others (even the WoL at the time) didn't. Which should have included when you returned to the Waking Sands so you could be captured...but something went wrong and the plan went off early (I debate whether Livia was too impatient, or Thancred himself was able to fool them into thinking you were there)

Ascian possession is such an oddly vague thing. I still don't know if the person being possessed is aware or conscious at the time.

Still doesn't really explain how Lahabrea popped all those people out of the Lifestream, at the exact spot they needed to be, when said spot had no aetherial beacon even in the vicinity. I mean, you could just handwave it by saying "He's an all-powerful Ascian", but what he did goes against the basic facts of how teleportation works in this world.

(Super off-topic, but I find it funny how you refer to Thancred with the past tense, as if he's already dead... because he might as well be, with how stunningly relevant he's been in the story since 4.0.)

We're kind of in a weird spot where Pureblood Garleans and magic are concerned. We were originally led to believe that they could not cast magic at all - and that anything they did do that looked like magic was purely linked to magitek. The lore book, however, confirmed that although it is rare some Pureblood Garleans are capable of using it. Yet we can't really confirm what, exactly, is an example of a Pureblood Garlean using magic when there's the possibility of it simply being tied to magitek or simply being something flashy in the typical 'Final Fantasy' style.

Out of every Pureblood Garlean we've seen so far I'm inclined to believe that Zenos was one of the few gifted with the ability to manipulate aether directly. Though on the other hand there's the whole 'Artificial Echo' angle to consider....which is an additional complication when trying to figure out who is capable of what.

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Originally Posted by Mysterysword

(Super off-topic, but I find it funny how you refer to Thancred with the past tense, as if he's already dead... because he might as well be, with how stunningly relevant he's been in the story since 4.0.)

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I hope we see more of Thancred, Krile and Y'shtola during the remainder of this expansion. It's almost certain that we'll be seeing more of Alphinaud and Alisae - which I don't mind at all since their progression has been wonderful so far - but I'd like to see Lyse shelved for a while in favour of the spotlight falling on some of the other major protagonists. More of Hien, Magnai and Sadu would be great as well. I'm hoping for that to be the case in 4.2...

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Originally Posted by Mysterysword

Still doesn't really explain how Lahabrea popped all those people out of the Lifestream, at the exact spot they needed to be, when said spot had no aetherial beacon even in the vicinity. I mean, you could just handwave it by saying "He's an all-powerful Ascian", but what he did goes against the basic facts of how teleportation works in this world.

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I've actually recently replayed that part of the game on an alt and you'll be pleased to know we're actually provided an answer to this before the raid. After defeating Titan, we get a short cut scene showing Nero, Lahabrea, and the Roegadyn guy who never ended up being relevant. We also see Y'shtola spying on them, and she notes that Ascians have access to unique teleportation magic of their own that they can manifest at will. Seeing as the Ascian itself is a being of pure aether, this isn't surprising that they can manipulate it to such a great extent that they can ignore the normal rules of teleportation. Less a fact they're all powerful and more the fact it's their natural habitat.

As for the question of why Thancred, I think that might have been pure chance? Thancred was in charge of studying the Ascians once their involvement was brought to light, he likely got literally too close and was a convenient host with many perks.

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Originally Posted by Rosenoire

Thanks for the comprehensive answer! I guess this means that Cid and Lucia have to travel by airship only?

Full disclosure: I'm asking for nefarious reasons. I'm writing a fic involving Cid, and it occurred to me that he can't just use the aetheryte from Rhalgr's Reach to get to Foundation.

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-scoots closer- Do tell. ;]

And, I'm not precisely sure. The only teleporter I can remember Cid using off the top of my head is the Allagan terminal in 3.56 MSQ, unless you count going back and forth between Eorzea and Omega's clubhouse. He doesn't seem to be able to enter Alexander Prime's time bubble, and didn't catch up to us in the Crystal Tower until we cleared out a direct footpath. I don't recall him teleporting anywhere in 1.0, either. Hmm...

Is it still canon that 'anima' is how normies and WoLs use aetherytes?

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Originally Posted by Jyera

Is it still canon that 'anima' is how normies and WoLs use aetherytes?

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I don't have the exact time and place written down, but I think it was in the House of the Fierce where Alphinaud remarked that most people are "not as replete with anima" as the WoL, or something to that effect, preventing them from teleporting to and fro so freely.

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Originally Posted by Rongway

I don't have the exact time and place written down, but I think it was in the House of the Fierce where Alphinaud remarked that most people are "not as replete with anima" as the WoL, or something to that effect, preventing them from teleporting to and fro so freely.

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Context was Alphinaud and Alisaie completing repairs on the aetheryte in the House of the Fierce, yes.

Image (nothing interesting, just confirmation):

https://i.imgur.com/b63YXHI.jpg

Even long before that reference though, there was already mention in the game about anima still being the factor behind whether someone could teleport or not (and how often) - the gate guard next to the aetheryte in each of the three starting city states will explain about this if you speak to them as early as when you first attuned to it at the start of the game:

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Originally Posted by Gridanian Wood Wailer Nicia

"As Return merely involves allowing the body to be drawn back to the strongest aetherial beacon - one's home point - it is fairly easy to execute and requires very little spiritual exertion. Usually a few moments of rest is all that is needed before it is safe to attempt another jump."
"Teleportation on the other hand, comes with a greater price. A great deal of spiritual energy known as 'anima' is required to fight the natural flow of the Lifestream and guide one's body and soul to a comparatively weak aetherial beacon."
"If one's body lacks sufficient anima, teleporting to a location may prove impossible. Luckily for most of us, anima is restored quickly and should not prohibit regular travel."

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And connected to that, the in-game Help window on teleporting actually mentions about anima as well, although it does not actually refer to it by name:

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Originally Posted by FFXIV ARR Client Help Window, on Aetherytes

"Unlike other spells, Teleport does not require MP to cast, but a type of naturally regenerating spiritual energy."

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Additionally, not long after ARR's launch an official lore post by Camate in this forum clarified the situation: anima is the body's aetheric tolerance to teleportation, but not everyone has the same consistent 'anima level', some people have higher anima than others, with some having virtually none, thus this means those with low anima can only teleport a few times before needing 'to rest' compared to others. The player's character, by contrast, was mentioned as having a 'very high' anima level and so could teleport constantly with no ill effect (this was basically the explanation for the gameplay replacement of anima cost for teleporting with a cost in gil, the later written into the story as a tax used to pay off the high cost of rebuilding the aetheryte network after the original one was destroyed in the Calamity), which also works towards explaining also why pure-born Garleans cannot teleport as well by extension, as quoted below:

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Originally Posted by Camate, quoting the Lore Team

Why doesn't everyone use aetherytes?
To traverse the Lifestream safely with Teleport and Return requires a great deal of spiritual energy, known as anima. While many individuals, such as adventurers, possess the fortitude to endure such travel, some individuals do not. What’s more, even if one has the ability to use aetherytes, the frequency with which one can do so varies. In essence, for some, the recast time for these spells can be far longer than for an adventurer.

As a result, only a fraction of the populace can utilize aetherial travel habitually, which is why chocobos, airships, and other forms of transportation still play a major role in Eorzea.

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Presumably this is also the core reason why Thancred in Heavensward and beyond can no longer teleport as well as pure-born Garleans not being able to teleport at all - he probably has virtually no anima at all now due to Flow stripping it from him, and pure-born Garleans have never had any significant anima to start off with.

It makes me wonder, if only a fraction of the population can actually use aetherytes regularly, why so much money is sunk into maintaining all the crystals. Does the cost benefit of being able to teleport really outweigh simply travelling by traditional methods?

Especially when it seems like you can't teleport a large amount of physical items or goods with you.

For that matter, does travelling via aetheryte shard also deplete anima?

I remember reading somewhere that Return is often cast when people go unconscious, aka why we show up at our homepoint when KOed. For most people, they're more of an emergency measure then anything else. That said, there's so many people who can make regular use of anima/teleport, that taking away fast travel doen't make economic sense. It would essentially cause the adventurer system to grind to a halt for the most part. I got the feeling that a lot of the large-scale side-quests exist because most adventurers can get around the realm faster then the people hiring them can.

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Originally Posted by Mysterysword

It makes me wonder, if only a fraction of the population can actually use aetherytes regularly, why so much money is sunk into maintaining all the crystals. Does the cost benefit of being able to teleport really outweigh simply travelling by traditional methods?

Especially when it seems like you can't teleport a large amount of physical items or goods with you.

For that matter, does travelling via aetheryte shard also deplete anima?

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I wonder if comparing Aetheryte travel (Teleport) to air travel IRL would be good. Anyone can use it is they have the money/Anima and all.

As for Aethernet (city) travel, what about comparing it to subway or bus travel? Much more accessible, but still has a minor cost