Stray mob in mass pull

Who's responsibility is the stray mob in mass pull?
I recently had a large pull in which a stray mob started attacking a ranged DPS.
My enmity list was full and shows everything red. The mob in question wandered/spawned into the fight after the initial pull.

I am performing AoE moves but as the DPS is outside the range of my moves, the mob never shows up on my list and I did not see it. Dodging, CD management and such.

What should be done about the situation?
Should the DPS tank it?
Should the DPS bring it to my range?
Something else?

Basic rule : If you got threat, run to the tank to ease the recover of enmity.

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Originally Posted by ChameleonMS

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Turn in your Soul Crystal.

jk

kinda

Low lvl? Let the healer tank it. Mid lvl? Let the drg floor tank it. SB lvl? Sprint and Tomahawk.

Ideally the person that pulled agro on the stray mob should run to you so you can grab it back without moving all the other mobs.
If that doesn't happen try to Provoke+Shield Lob/Tomahawk/Unmend it to get it on you from range. If it just spawned and ran at another party member and hasn't built up much agro on them a lob/hawk/mend may be enough.
If someone is being stupid and is single-target bursting during a mass pull, well they can tank it for all I care. I'm not going to waste time playing spin-the-mob with a dps when I have a whole other pack of them to manage.

Also, while the stray mob may not be on your agro table, it is part of best practices for tanks (and everyone really) to try to keep an eye on where the other party members are and what they are doing so you should notice a stray on someone.

The most common times I see this is when it's a ranged mob that the tank pulled as part of a group or a patrolling enemy that aggroed due to the location chosen for the fight. In both cases it should be the tank's responsibility to deal with it. In other situations, if a dps pulled it off you, they need to either bring it back or tank it themselves. If a healer pulled it off, they should bring it back if they can, but for a pull of this size they may be too busy healing.

Yeah, gonna echo that last point. When I dps, one thing that bugs me the most in big pulls is tanks that don't keep track of ranged mobs. It's like, ok, I can either help with the group, or I can burn down the stray, and often I'll go for the stray, because I know if I don't, it'll just start bashing the healer.
Patrol enemy, again, tank should be aware of when/where those are and expect to catch aggro if they cross paths.

But, there's only so much you can do if you're running a big pack and just can't quite keep track of everything on screen. At that point, sure, maybe it's still a little bit of dps/healer fault, handling a big pack requires a little more care than otherwise, from everyone. If you're keeping the AoE aggros up, everyone else should know to drag strays into it if they get caught.

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Originally Posted by Hasrat

But, there's only so much you can do if you're running a big pack and just can't quite keep track of everything on screen. At that point, sure, maybe it's still a little bit of dps/healer fault, handling a big pack requires a little more care than otherwise, from everyone. If you're keeping the AoE aggros up, everyone else should know to drag strays into it if they get caught.

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Pretty much. First example that comes to mind is when you've gone for a super pull in Temple of the Fist. Back against the moss wall, every now and then you get a mossling that gets away, because you can't actually see anything thanks to the camera being stuck in your back.

When I tank, I just grab the stray's after I gain enough aggro to not lose the mass of mobs hitting me. Common sense to me to just grab it so it doesn't end up causing the healer to drop heals on the tank potentially causing a wipe.

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Should the DPS bring it to my range?

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This one, generally, unless they're immobile and you can use a ranged skill soon enough for it to be a nonissue.

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Originally Posted by ChameleonMS

Who's responsibility is the stray mob in mass pull?
I recently had a large pull in which a stray mob started attacking a ranged DPS.-snip-

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It is the tank's responsibility to establish hate with all of the mobs before he kites the pack to the spot where he wants us to kill them. If you watch the entire pack and one peels off, go to pull it back from whoever has it and if its because they are dpsing during the pull, kindly ask them to wait until you are done with the pull before they begin their dps.

As a dps, when this happens, if the enmity of a stray is on me for any reason, I run straight to the tank to take the enmity to the tank until he peels it off.

In general, when a tank begins to kite a pack of mobs, I do not attack until hes done kiting, even if its the case where we are almost at the end of killing a pack of mobs and the tank decides to start on the next pack of mobs before we are done killing the last mob in that pack, I still halt all attacks until he stops kiting them.

One of the things that causes a mob to stray during a mass pull is when they are being attacked and they pause to do their attack or cast, separating them from the pack. So its usually not a good idea for dps to attack until the tank is done pulling and establishing hate.

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Originally Posted by MStowastiqVahlshdeh

It is the tank's responsibility to establish hate with all of the mobs before he kites the pack to the spot where he wants us to kill them. If you watch the entire pack and one peels off, go to pull it back from whoever has it and if its because they are dpsing during the pull, kindly ask them to wait until you are done with the pull before they begin their dps.

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If one peels off, it means I had some form of hate on it, and it would have shown in my enemy/enmity list as Green/Yellow/Orange. When that happens, yep, select the mob Provoke and Shield Lob/Tomahawk/Unmend. Worst case, walk over to it and hit it with aggro combo. The mob I am specifically asking about is the random patroller or mid-fight spawner. This mob, I never had aggro, so it does not show in the list at all.
In this case it appears the general consensus is:
1. Do what you can see everything and grab it.
2. When 1 does not work, the DPS should bring it to me.

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Originally Posted by Hasrat

When I dps, one thing that bugs me the most in big pulls is tanks that don't keep track of ranged mobs.

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On this topic, the biggest problem I have faced with it, is I do plan on moving the pack back to the range mob position but the DPS and Healer have already put down the ground AoEs (i.e. Shadow Flare, Asylum) at the initial stopping point; no where near the ranged mob.
Do I still move the pack thus stepping out of the ground AoE zone or stay put? I have tendency to stay put but is that correct?

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Originally Posted by ChameleonMS

On this topic, the biggest problem I have faced with it, is I do plan on moving the pack back to the range mob position but the DPS and Healer have already put down the ground AoEs (i.e. Shadow Flare, Asylum) at the initial stopping point; no where near the ranged mob.
Do I still move the pack thus stepping out of the ground AoE zone or stay put? I have tendency to stay put but is that correct?

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If possible try to move the ranged mob into the AoEs. Ranged mobs will always adjust to keep their targets in range and so if you move away from the ranged mob it will move towards you to keep you in range. So while it may seem counter to what you would normally do, if you have agro on the whole pack but there is that stubborn ranged mob that you want to position in AoEs, first make sure you have agro on it and then quickly move away from the ranged mob so that it then moves towards you and into the AoEs and once it is in the right spot, quickly move back into your initial spot. There you go, everything is grouped up nicely in the AoEs.

Also another trick that I learned early on and which made tanking Darkhold way easier, is that if a ranged mob loses line of sight of you it will close on you to try to get you back in it's sight. So if there are ranged mobs that you want to group up and you know the layout of the dungeon, you can use it to your advantage by doing things like tucking yourself just on the other side of a corner or other obstruction, breaking line of sight and forcing the ranged mobs to come to you.

On a similar note, one of my personal pet peeves when tanking is when ranged dps decide to sit as far back as possible while fighting mobs that have random target directed AoEs causing the mob to run off towards the random dps to cast their AoE and then the dps runs even farther away just exacerbating the situation. This happens all the time to me with the last set of giants in Ala Mhigo.

It's a bigger sin to leave the mob untanked than it is to leave the ground AoE. Ground AoEs the healer might lose 10% of their throughput or the DPS might lose what amounts to a GCD's worth of potency. Of all the ground AoEs, I think it's hardest on DRK's Salted Earth because you lose both damage and resources. But hey, guess what? You're the tank, positioning is on you. Healers splitting their heals between the tank and a squishy target are where someone (usually the squishy, but not always) might actually die so that's the bigger concern.

That said, don't be too hard on yourself in a mass pull situation if there are stray mobs at times. The enmity list does have a limit and streaming mobs are always a challenge for tanks to pick up. If it's a big problem, nobody's going to complain if you do 3 packs instead of 4, or 2 instead of 3. Just try to avoid doing single packs unless you have a specific reason to stick to single pulls.

Regarding you AoE dilemma: definitely leave ground AoE and get that stray mob. It's A LOT more trouble splitting heals between a mass tanking tank and a squishy than ST pumping without Asylum etc.

And if every mob is busy happily beating you up, dps and healer should rarely take damage in mass pulls - if any.
If someone suddenly DOES drop and healer has to split heal it's usually because a stray mob is punching holes in a squishy. So it's always worth a quick look. HP are not your main concern as a tank but you should still be able to take a quick glance every now and then. That way you don't have to rely solely on enemy list because it has limited space.

Aggro list or not, you should be able to notice from the party list if a DPS is taking damage when it probably should not.

Agreed. Aggro list or not if someone is taking single target damage then you need to get control of the mob and find the loose add. A dps can help by running it to the tank.