Suggestion: Level Sync for S rank Hunts

I'd like to request a system to be put in place that syncs all participants down to level 50 or 60 respectively for old S rank hunts.

It has become an extreme issue on my server of old hunts being instantly detected by 3rd party software and pulled by the same few people the moment they appear, even to the detriment of the people actually putting in the work to spawn the hunts. Often the hunt is almost down to half health or even dead already before it is possible to be able to be found and reached from where the spawn trigger was at.

I'm fully and painfully aware of the "there is no such thing as an early pull" mentality, and I do not technically disagree with it. The issue simply stems from the massive power creep since the old hunts were introduced.

There used to be some natural "deterrence" preventing this from being an issue, namely, a level 50 S rank was simply not feasibly solo-able or duo-able back at level 50. At level 70, that deterrence is gone, the old ARR hunts are little more than health sponges.
Due to this, the situation has changed quite dramatically from back then, and I feel the "rules" should change to reflect that.

Adding a sync system would permanently fix this issue, and also future-proof all current hunts from suffering the same fate, preserving hunts as the big, tough monsters they are supposed to be.

I agree. I don't even bother with ARR A/S hunts anymore because I know when I see one called out in a Hunt linkshell it will be dead well before I get there. Sadly I think Yoshida has no interest in touching older hunts. I believe Mr. Happy asked about them in an interview a few months ago and the response was basically "we don't want to waste resources on dated content". I don't agree with this mindset since old hunts still provide relevant rewards but oh well.

Or you could just be proactive and go camp the hunt yourself instead of waiting for others to do it for you and tell you when it spawns. Or, knowing it just spawned figure out when it will next spawn and be there. Putting a level restriction on it will just end up making it so newer players won't have help.

Also, if you KNOW people are using 3rd pt software to know when the hunts spawn, as opposed to them just camping to learn tod and knowing when it will spawn again, report them.

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Originally Posted by Zarabeth

Or you could just be proactive and go camp the hunt yourself instead of waiting for others to do it for you and tell you when it spawns. Or, knowing it just spawned figure out when it will next spawn and be there. Putting a level restriction on it will just end up making it so newer players won't have help.

Also, if you KNOW people are using 3rd pt software to know when the hunts spawn, as opposed to them just camping to learn tod and knowing when it will spawn again, report them.

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It's like you didn't read at all.

I am the one spawning most of these things. E.g., Bonnacon. I'm at the node, 8am, gather. The moment I finish I start running. See it in the distance, in front of the Tidegate spot. It's already pulled, so clearly the one doing the pulling was not at the node gathering at all, instead just waiting somewhere else.

Also what makes you think I didn't report? I did, and just get automated response for it.

You know how fates become more difficult when more people participate in them? What if they imported this system into hunts on a larger scale? Increasing an S ranks HP based on how many people participated on the last one. One drawback could be that one may be overwhelmingly strong in the middle of a weekday night when the population is low, but a case like that could motivate players to call out for help in every channel and linkshell available. And it would give people more than enough time to come over.

In extreme cases, where an S rank just cant be killed because the ENTIRE server killed the last one. They may have to come up with a timer where the hunts HP is reset after he's been allowed to live long enough. Maybe by making it a visible buff that can be seen by targetting it.

I made a suggestion like this a couple years back, and would love to see something like this added in game.

There are quite a few unmarked FATEs that still require you to sync. Make S ranks follow suit.

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Originally Posted by Saiah

You know how fates become more difficult when more people participate in them? What if they imported this system into hunts on a larger scale? Increasing an S ranks HP based on how many people participated on the last one.

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This would not at all work to combat the issue I am describing.

Something like this will be a problem for low populated servers.
Instead of killing it quickly - nobody will bother with them. Pale Rider S hunt in Heavensward required quite a big number of people.
It will also be a problem for early morning/morning times/people.

TL;DR I've been hunting A/S hunts since HW and i don't think this is a good idea.
p.s. But as of right now, if you see an S hunt announcement, you better grab your pants and run fast to it. Also, join like 6 Hunt linkshells, it helps.

And also:
- People struggled on Agrippa (ARR S Hunt) even in Heavensward(average ilvl 250), killing that thing with level 50 sync(ilvl130) will be one hell of a nightmare. Honestly, i pass on that.
p.s. Because 99% of them just DPS it in brain-dead mode.

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Originally Posted by Zeonsilt

And also:
- People struggled on Agrippa (ARR S Hunt) even in Heavensward(average ilvl 250), killing that thing with level 50 sync(ilvl130) will be one hell of a nightmare. Honestly, i pass on that.
p.s. Because 99% of them just DPS it in brain-dead mode.

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That's exactly the difficulty I would love to see return. Maybe it's just me but, are S ranks not SUPPOSED to be difficult and not just a 10 second striking dummy?

By constantly updating the rewards gained, SE has kept all S ranks relevant. Should they really just be able to be easily solo'd?

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Originally Posted by Unease_Lemming

That's exactly the difficulty I would love to see return. Maybe it's just me but, are S ranks not SUPPOSED to be difficult and not just a 10 second striking dummy?

By constantly updating the rewards gained, SE has kept all S ranks relevant. Should they really just be able to be easily solo'd?

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I love hunts and would like an increase in difficulty too (and rewards), however, i can see a "general picture" aka there's always people, who never learn or ignore everyone. Seeing Agrippa regenerating to full health 20 times in a row because "your lazy average Johny never bothers" is not something i want. But this is only a #1 problem.

A second problem in this game is already presented fully at Ixion: FF XIV game engine is not suited for mass-scale battles, and servers end up going down. And even if it's not, the lags and delay is awful.
Heck, as MCH, i can't even start generating Heat, even if i shoot or use a Flamethrower, my Heat Gauge is still at 0. (and you can't use Stabilizer either).
I.e. large scale battles @ S Hunts will feel like a drag, not something enjoyable.


Something like this happened to Blizzard and WoW in 2008 with it's Ice-Lake-pvp siege zone. They acknowledged the flaws and it took them awhile to fix/update the game(about 1 year i think).

I agree. I’m so sick of having S ranks called and people “yoloing” or “Leroy Jenkinsing” it just to troll the people who actually need to get their hunts done. It is incredibly selfish, and honestly I feel SE needs to fix things when it comes to this. Old content is still content important to new players in ARR and HW. Keeping newer players happy means more profits for SE as a whole. Wanna keep the game healthy? Fix the overall health and feel of the game!

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Originally Posted by Kisagami

Old content is still content important to new players in ARR and HW. Keeping newer players happy means more profits for SE as a whole.

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While you're not wrong, this argument is weak based on how you define 'newer'. I managed to spawn Nandi as a level 43 MIN who likes to have minions out and paid for that with my life, and to this day hold a grudge against that lizard. I know of someone who quit the game because an A rank spawned over their level 10 self, and let's be honest, that makes for a horrible experience. It's one thing if you're under-leveled and intentionally go to a zone where the monsters are 10+ levels ahead, it's another when a max-level enemy meant to be fought by numerous people spawns in the middle of a 10-15 enemy level range zone, all because you happened to stand over Brontes' spawn point when you ate your experience boost. Oh and how about that level 60 Odin in the middle of a level 50 area, hm? Hunts from the get-go were very poorly designed and the fact they didn't age well is yet another proof of that.

Have you ever considered networking to find better linkshells? Not justifying how hunts are in their present state in any way, but this can really really soften the blow.

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Originally Posted by Phireblast

Have you ever considered networking to find better linkshells? Not justifying how hunts are in their present state in any way, but this can really really soften the blow.

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Well, they mentioned (twice) that it was in reference to a Hunt that they spawned that was pulled before they even got to it. No amount of linkshells will change that.

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Originally Posted by Sarteck

Well, they mentioned (twice) that it was in reference to a Hunt that they spawned that was pulled before they even got to it. No amount of linkshells will change that.

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It's been a big problem on Behemoth lately caused by a couple people trolling the main people that spawn by pulling before they get there. It's been that way for around 2+ weeks now.

We pretty much need a Level Sync for old hunts. And if this is not the best option, SE should be able to to something else to make old hunts better.

I couldn't agree more with this. This particular issue has been raised every now and then in the linkshells I'm in. You could have something along the lines of Odin: he's an old boss but people still can have their participation, and thus aren't vulnerable to others who hatefully kill them too early for the sole purpose of preventing legit players from getting participation.

This also propagates a bad reputation about one of the most played content, how would someone face a situation in which they'll never be able to kill such bosses (and therefore finish off their achievements) because some players, driven by hatred, will steal that content from them continuously? I'm in the same server and this happens every single day. S ranks mean much more to your players, SE, and I believe this should be properly addressed.

On Siren, we have a well known Free Company that has been trolling all the linkshells. They call out in all the hunt linkshells, and while people are still arriving, pull it just to troll everyone. Not only has it wasted me thousands in teleports, but I had to deal with my linkshell arguing whether they should report that FC for calling it out, then pulling it, just to watch everyone rage that they missed it.

Absolutely riduculous we have these kind of trolls. But what is SE gonna do? Make S Ranks fates?

The problem isnt just about S ranks, but all other old content too. SE just doesnt bother with it if after they are out. They spending fuck ton research on contents and after they made it, they abadone it real quick. They could have just copy-paste the Fate code and use it on the S-ranks atleast.

The only problem I see with this sort of thing is not everyone does the older S ranks, especially these days, i've had a ARR S rank pop on me while doing something else and shouted for 20+ mins trying to get people to come and when it at 10% health someone showed up and helped me kill it, if sync'd I more than likely wouldn't have tried to kill it and it would probably just despawn. Not everyone is in a hunt LS, I would have made a pf for it but I was in que for a DF already as a dps so really didn't want to reque. Problem with S ranks in HW and ARR is that the zones are so empty due to POTD or dungeons taking up the majority of the players. Anyhow unless there's a massive complaint from a good amount of players I really don't see them putting the effort into making it happen.

S ranks are really the only type of content that gets max level players into older zones other then special boss FATEs like Odin and gathering, so having them actually last for more then a few seconds would be nice, IMO.

I'm going to have a hard time getting my S rank hunting achievements for the Thanalan areas with the wonky spawn timers and the fickleness of the spawns happening AWAY from the areas where people are completing the tasks necessary to spawn them.

I guess this depends on the community per server because on mine, people call out old S and A ranks in LS, region chat, and even NN sometimes.

People generally wait for others to show up, form parties, do ready checks and calling for people who are otw (on the way) in the regional chat. We often get 10+ people showing up for an A or S rank in ARR areas.

i'm against it , we need a ton of S ranks for the tiger mount , it should be even longer :x

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Originally Posted by Squintina

I guess this depends on the community per server because on mine, people call out old S and A ranks in LS, region chat, and even NN sometimes.

People generally wait for others to show up, form parties, do ready checks and calling for people who are otw (on the way) in the regional chat. We often get 10+ people showing up for an A or S rank in ARR areas.

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This is what I've noticed on Leviathan too. People will shout the location and give others a bit of time to get there and usually ask if more are coming before pulling. Most A Rank hunt monsters I've killed have been due to this process. I've also had good luck stumbling across them and I always shout and wait before pulling to make sure all are there.

If the content can be done with less people, then keeping it inclusive requires making it doable more often. In other words, reduce both the minimum spawn time and spawn window.

If an example hunt nowadays can spawn 60 to 84 hours after it's been killed or alternatively 36 to 50 hours after maintenance has ended, make the new timer 12 to 16 hours. That way there are more opportunities to kill it and people don't waste a full day trying to spawn it without a result because of the spawn window being longer than waking hours. If this new timer would cause a hunt group to not have enough time to kill every hunt every time they are up, then GOOD, because now a whole other bunch of people have a better chance to spawn and kill it too.

Why I see these topics only from entitled players who never scout/help to spawn and only leech off extremelly time consuming work.

Please, stop. If you help to spawn, you'll never miss S rank.

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Originally Posted by SuperZay

Why I see these topics only from entitled players who never scout/help to spawn and only leech off extremelly time consuming work.

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I found another person who didn't read the OP.

@OP: I support your idea.

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Originally Posted by Unease_Lemming

It has become an extreme issue on my server of old hunts being instantly detected by 3rd party software

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Originally Posted by Unease_Lemming

Adding a sync system would permanently fix this issue

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How? Synced means a designated area on the map like FATEs. Making it like Odin where it's only visible when close to it still gives those players an advantage. Making it like regular FATEs where it's visible from anywhere would allow more players to act as you describe. Many can use such software now but choose not to as they either see it as cheating or don't want to risk getting punished for breaking the ToS. Making it 'official' removes both barriers.

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Originally Posted by Unease_Lemming

There used to be some natural "deterrence" preventing this from being an issue

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http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ir-Take-a-look.

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Originally Posted by Unease_Lemming

preserving hunts as the big, tough monsters they are supposed to be.

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Even synced, the hunts will melt when the majority of the server shows up.

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Originally Posted by Unease_Lemming

a level 50 S rank was simply not feasibly solo-able or duo-able back at level 50. At level 70, that deterrence is gone, the old ARR hunts are little more than health sponges.

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The proposed change doesn't address this. Sync down, damage the hunt, unsync when in danger, top up, repeat or have an unsynced healer in your party heal you.

Players using unsanctioned software to cheat in hunts is a problem, but it's not the only one. Depending on your server, there are also the problems of too many people showing up to hunts and the majority of players not having an incentive to 'hunt'.

A suggested solution needs to take all of that into account while also requiring minimum effort on the part of the devs.

The ingredients are all there: Docile S ranks with no cooldown or spawn conditions with no rewards for simply killing (like B), 30 minute FATEs that players don't do more than the once and seals. It's just a matter of finding the right combination.

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Originally Posted by Vnolan

How? Synced means a designated area on the map like FATEs. Making it like Odin where it's only visible when close to it still gives those players an advantage. Making it like regular FATEs where it's visible from anywhere would allow more players to act as you describe. Many can use such software now but choose not to as they either see it as cheating or don't want to risk getting punished for breaking the ToS. Making it 'official' removes both barriers.

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I'd like a Sync feature, not necessarily a "make it a fate" feature. You are right though that the likeliest way this could be handled is that way.

Honestly if it WERE changed to a "visible from anywhere" fate, that would be fine by me, that would actually level the playing field for everyone, regardless of any add-ons. Remember, the issue is not about early pulls, it's about player power creep in regards to overworld content. The main point of all this is the reduction of stats back down to 50/60.

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Originally Posted by Vnolan

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ir-Take-a-look.

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Remember again, this is about the actual person spawning the hunts not reaching it in time before it can feasibly be killed. This was not an issue back at level 50, since even a full party needed significantly longer to do so than two level 70's do now.

Nothing is going to stop the cheating, this has been proven time and again over the years. All we could do is alleviate the issue, and my suggestion certainly does that.

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Originally Posted by Vnolan

Even synced, the hunts will melt when the majority of the server shows up.

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Which has never been the issue in my post. The majority of the server showing up and the hunt melting even when we're all synched down to its level I would consider great success, because that means many people were able to benefit rather than two.

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Originally Posted by Vnolan

The proposed change doesn't address this. Sync down, damage the hunt, unsync when in danger, top up, repeat or have an unsynced healer in your party heal you.

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Absolutely does address this. Two level 50 characters, even assuming invincibility, are going to need a massive amount of time to kill an S rank, plenty enough for anyone that was actually in the area putting forth effort to spawn it to find it through manual scouting.