Hello to all.
As the title says, I am trying my hand at tanking and have always been a healer [supportive] class type of player. I have run a few things as Dark Knight and kind of find myself watching health and struggling a little with how I have to rely on another to heal me. [A very scary concept to me when one healer actually fell asleep mid boss]
I was curious if there were any suggestions or even ways other manage to deal with balancing doing other classes. Or even if there is another class for tanking that might be better to start off in!
Thank you~
Adjusting to Tanking from Healer
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11-13-2017, 10:06 AMSnowDraconisAdjusting to Tanking from Healer
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11-13-2017, 10:08 AMBorisDaBlade
Roll pally instead and clemency yourself if you don’t trust the healer lol.
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11-13-2017, 10:28 AMRokkuEkkusu
- Since I'm assuming you're in the level 30-50 range, you should make sure your gear is strictly compatible with "GLD PLD MRD WAR DRK". That means it's strictly tank gear. If you do come up with gear that includes "LNC DRG" included with the aforementioned 5, the defense and magic defense numbers should be equal (e.g. 100 on both; not 90 on one and 80 on the other.)
- You shouldn't use stuff that has the general "Disciples of War" compatibility. Those are for the dps roles.
- Make sure your gear levels are up to date in relation to the dungeon you are tanking. Your vitality and defenses heavily depend on how high the gear level and quality are.
- Focus on keeping aggro on enemies. In the case of Dark Knight, start off a pull with Unmend. After all the enemies gather up close to you, use Unleash 3 to 4 times. Watch out for ranged enemies that don't wanna budge (casters and arches come to mind.)
- Make sure your tank stance is up when you are tanking enemies. In Dark Knight's case, the tank stance is Grit.
- As a Dark Knight, be sure to keep Darkside up. Your attack power increases and some of your abilities are require Darkside to be on.
- Make it a habit to use your defensive abilities. Some examples include Rampart, Shadow Wall, and Anticipation. -
11-13-2017, 10:41 AMRilifane
1) What's the worst thing that can happen if you DO die because the healer you have to rely on hasn't been healing? You die. You respawn/ get ressed. Done. Ask the healer if you overdid it or -if you definitely did NOT overdo it- suggest he starts healing a little sooner and maybe focus less on dps for now to be on the safe side. But really, even IF the one you have to rely on isn't doing a good job - the world won't stop turning. It happens.
2) The more time you have to spent focusing on your job the less you'll have to focus on other things like watching your hp like a hawk. Sure, a tank should always be aware of his hp but mostly so you know when you need to use YOUR skills. So maybe pull a bit more so you have a decent challenge with keeping aggro. Or try to push your dps. But focus on your job first and foremost. I daresay you have enough on your plate as a tank, no need to mentally do other people's job aswell.
And on a side note: a healer has to rely just as much on the tank. And you managed that just fine as a healer, didn't you? :)
It's teamwork and you can't control what others are doing, regardless of your role. Dps have to rely on BOTH tank and healer, even in easy dungeons. -
11-13-2017, 11:04 AMSnowDraconis
Thank you heavily for this advice so far!
And I do agree with if we do die we just respawn but sadly not all in a party feel that way and verbal abuse towards self or healer has been an issue in the past for it. But yeah, I shall certainly keep this all in mind when I do give it another go.
As for the healer managing I have a tank I have been with for many games now so I am use to being able to talk to him on voice and relay so its def hard to go to not having that haha. Though I am sure I could get them to do healing one day hehe. -
11-13-2017, 01:24 PMRilifane
Of course you will meet people along the way who immediately go into ragequit mode. Bound to happen in an MMO, composure is not a prerequisite to create an account.
Sure, having that whole "private tank/ healer" thing going is nice but the sooner you step out of that bubble, the better. Unless you want to make yourself completely dependent on a set group of people who are always friendly and understanding, you'll have to go out there and play with people you never ever met.
This doesn't *always* go well but in my experience, the calmer you are, the calmer they react. Goes for both tank and healer.
You would be surprised how many times someone was initially insulting but backpaddled and apologized when I explained the situation in a calmer manner.
And if they still cannot see reason, tell them that you welcome helpful tips because you are still adjusting but will not put up with insults. So if they want to finish the dungeon, either show basic manners or you'll leave.
I think I only had to go this far once.
But the first step to ensuring things do go well is to focus on doing your own job as best as you can and NOT mentally do other people's job. Let them do their job. Check your healer's gear, play it safe for the first 1-2 groups and then step it up as you see fit. If something still goes wrong: dying/ wiping is not the end of the world. And you cannot prevent it by being jumpy and mistrusting.
And playing with Roulette groups keeps you on your toes ;D Nothing is pushing your limits better than a group of strangers who decided to make this a savage mode. -
11-13-2017, 04:17 PMThoosa
Some tips:
1. Try and face enemies and bosses away from the group at all times
2. Keep and eye on the markers next to the enemies - solid square means they have aggro on you - if that changes to a triangle or yellow, you’re losing aggro, so cast a flash/overpower/unleash
3. Don’t rush ahead and leave your healer behind, because you’re likely to die. :P
4. Try and maintain aggro especially away from your healer.
5. Know when to mass pull or not, be aware some Dungeons are a step up like Sushi to Bardam’s as the enemies hit harder.
6. Learn the dungeon.
I’ve got a warrior to 70 and have done Dungeons and trials with it, but yet to brave raids and was also healing before.
Good luck :) -
11-13-2017, 04:28 PMDRKoftheAzureWhat they said since DRK is not worth playing right now... or you could go for WAR... they don't have as much reliance as healer so long as much manage your CDs, as well as staying in tank stance, when compared to DRK and PLD... only play DRK if you A. hate yourself B. hate the group you are in C. hate your healers and want them to heal more D. hate people in general... (as you can tell DRK is pretty much a self-loathing class that takes their anger out everyone because they don't understand the nerfs DRK recieved... sarcasm aside you really are better off playing something that is NOT DRK)Quote:
Originally Posted by BorisDaBlade
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11-13-2017, 07:37 PMHeleth
I say it all depends what you plan to do with your tank... If you plan to do dungeons and the odd duty finder raids you can play whatever you want.... I have both dk and warrior at 70(working my way up with paladin), and in my opinion DK works fine in regular dungeons... They don't have as much defensive abilities as warrior and paladin(which you will only really notice if you play any of the other tanks), but their aoe is great: Non positional restrictions(unlike warriors overpower), several options in unleash, salted earth, abyssal drain, quietus...So rounding up groups for the dps(and healer) to kill is fairly easy on dk(not saying its difficult on warrior/paladin, but its at least just as easy if not easier on dk)..... Which is all you really do in dungoens in between bosses..
Concerning your fear of relying on your healer, dk are most healer reliant(imo)... Both paladins and warriors can do a fair amount of self healing themselves.... As for complexity I dont think any of the tanking classes are complex, but paladin is the safest to play... They have a good set of defensive cooldowns, good synergy between gameplay and abilities, have great passives in block(can now also block magical damage)... So if you are a new tank and don't have any personal preferences i'd recommend playing a paladin first... -
11-13-2017, 09:57 PMDerio
DRK currently suffers in content lower than 60, due to its toolkit getting stripped in 4.0
PLD or WAR is much easier to level in leveling dungeons due to them having several more mitigation tools to choose from.
If you are transitioning from healer to tank I would recommend PLD as it has several tools and even group heals and group mitigation that makes you feel still very much support role in the group. -
11-14-2017, 01:07 AMaqskerorokero
Grit and soul eater
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11-14-2017, 01:14 AMSkatedudeguy
As someone who went Healer > DPS > Tank, here's a few extra things I'd say to help you out. The best things I'd say to start out with:
1: Learn how to position. There's a picture out there somewhere that goes a bit more into depth about it, but basically you want YOU - MOB (back) - Party. This ensures that most of the AOES are coming to you and you only. The best way to do this is to use your distance pull, AOE emnity, then run THROUGH the mob to the other side. It works well. (I don't know the DRK skill names I'm afraid).
2: Cooldowns are not JUST for bosses! Use them for pulls, I promise they will come back in time.
3: You and your healer are working together (as you know). If they are falling asleep at the heal, then you may have to use even more cooldowns, or pull smaller groups.
That's the basics. You can do it, tanking can be a lot of fun. You may mess up, it's okay! A wipe is just gaining knowledge. Good luck! -
11-14-2017, 05:00 AMGeminaMaybe let the OP decide which tank she wants to play, and not the meta? She's asking for tips on how to play DRK. Not if she should play it. Whether or not she comprehends the changes to DRK from 3.0 to 4.0, the most important thing for her to know is DRK is more than capable of fulfilling it's role in 4-man and 8-man content. All the woes aside concerning DRK, there is absolutely no point playing a job you don't enjoy.Quote:
Originally Posted by DRKoftheAzure
@Snow,
I am also transitioning from healer to tank and chose to go DRK as well as I have zero interest in the other two tanks right now. I'm only LV 53 and still getting the hang of things, but having a lot of fun along the way. I've tanked everything through Sohm Al and might be able to provide some useful tips from the mistakes I've made, and advice from other DRK mains. Posting from phone ATM, so will provide more when I'm behind my PC. -
11-14-2017, 05:15 AMChrononsWelcome to tanking. Seems like you have gotten some good advice so far, but ill throw in my 2cents as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by SnowDraconis
Some Simple Rules to Tanking in FFXIV:
- Find a tank mentor. (Seems like you have a friend who can fill this role) Nothing is better for a fledgling tank than a veteran tank as a wingman on dps or healer. Mine them for info and tips. They can be your training wheels, but dont make them a crutch. Meaning, tank in the DF with randoms from time to time. Variety in teammates will make you a better tank.
- Read your tool tips, especially your defensive cooldowns. These are your bread and butter, use the stronger ones when fighting large numbers of monsters or when you know a boss is about to use a big attack. Your goal should be to try to keep up a cooldown as often as possible while saving important ones for mechanics you know are coming later.
- Fail. Often. A big part of tanking is developing a strong battle sense. Most high level tanks dont spend much time worrying about aggro or who has what mob, you will develop a sense of it over time and will naturally correct any mistakes that take place by you or others. Until then, learn to cycle through all of your enemies and monitor their aggro in the party list. At the start of a pull an easy rule of thumb is to use 1 AOE threat attack per mob. DO NOT stress about losing aggro initially, it happens. You wont be the first person or the last person, and there are times where its not even your fault. Do your best, make sure your mistakes arent continually the cause of it, and shake it off. Part of playing a tank is developing confidence, dont let the negative words of others snuff out that flame of desire. Protect it, nurture it, and you will see yourself improve.
- Be kind, stay humble. Whether people want to admit it or not, taking on the tank role places you in a position of authority in a team. Whether or not you are the de facto "leader" you control the pace of the party , have taken on a role with greater responsibility, and are the first person into the fray. Dont ever forget how it felt to be a new tank, be the kind of mentor to others that you would like to find for yourself, and try to keep the team grounded. -
11-14-2017, 07:09 AMAnienaiQuote:
Originally Posted by SnowDraconis
Try Warrior and you won't regret it. Some tips I use when tanking (dungeons only).
1. Fix your UI so you get used to seeing who has aggro and such.
2. Pay attention to bursty classes like RDM if they go nuts (and they will) on a mob you are not targeting.
3. Cycle thru each mob and make sure you have a decent lead before switching to DPS stance.
4. You WILL run into THAT healer, so just /blist, drop and reque after 30 when they turn on douche mode.
5. If the mobs melt on the first pull then yolo it to the boss/gate.
The others covered CD usage. -
11-14-2017, 04:59 PMGeminaSo as I was mentioning before, and a little long-winded is I just wanted to point out a few things I've encountered along the way that I found a bit difficult to transition from healer to tank. There are a lot of tanking guides out there, and good advice here so I assume you are aware of the basics to tanking.Quote:
Originally Posted by SnowDraconis
The first is boss mechanics. They are handled differently as a tank so it is helpful to go back and take a peek at a guide. Being a tank gives you pretty quick queue times even for specific instances. Using roulettes can throw you into a dungeon you have not done as tank. This was hard for me as well because as a tank, I feel like I should know the instance inside and out or I am a burden to the group. If I was giving another tank advice, I would say there is no shame in asking for a quick rundown and I should follow my own advice.
Second is actually having a rotation. Healers don't have rotations, and I think tanks are a little looser than DPS job rotations, but there is still a rehearsed opener that I screw up all the time. I used to memorize complete songs on the piano, but in all honesty, it was all muscle memory. I applied this to the rotations. To practice, I don't use striking dummies. Dummies don't hit back and force you to make quick decisions. What I do is simulate pulls on open world mobs.
If you have a healer chocobo, try going out to the open and find a nice pack of 2-3 mobs about 2-3 levels below you. Obviously, you don't need to use AoE enmity or agro combos to maintain agro here, but the idea is to get your rotation down to muscle memory. This has helped a lot when going into dungeons, especially if I am rusty after not having tanked for a few days.
Last I will mention the leap of faith that is trusting your healer. It's really tough letting go of that responsibility, but I queued as a tank. I have a different responsibility now. We all make mistakes. I'm sure you've made them as a healer, and you will get healers who will make the same ones and others. What I would take with you, is your knowledge of being a healer. You know exactly how to take pressure off of them by learning to manage those CDs you always wished tanks in your party would use, and not pulling more than you guys are comfortable doing.
Accepting that it's up to me to gauge how much we can pull has actually been one of the easier things to do, and one of the things I enjoy most. -
11-14-2017, 10:19 PMArianeEwahI think you mean this one?!:Quote:
Originally Posted by Skatedudeguy
https://i.imgur.com/BlnLLeX.png -
11-15-2017, 08:19 AMKeldon
Most of the important stuff has already been said, but I figured I'd throw a couple other bits in here. When you're doing a large pull, use your defensive cooldowns before you're in danger: use rampart when you're still at 75% hp for example, don't wait until you're at 25% to start using CDs. The reason for that is you want to take the least damage possible at the START of the pull, when all the mobs are alive, that way when your defensive CDs run out some of the mobs will have been killed already by the dps, and your healer doesn't have to panic heal the whole pull and can throw a little bit of dps into the mix.
The second thing is if you wipe, try to figure out WHY it happened, and if it was your fault just apologize before anyone has a chance to get mad at you: this stops almost all ragequits.