World First tank line up confirmed

And it's Paladin/Dark Knight.

Again we have no idea why Dysnomia chose DRK for Ultimate Coil when WAR is better for most. The only thing I can think of is DRK is easier and less punishing to play than WAR, especially if WAR dies your DPS goes down the gutter, and maybe Living Dead for last part of the fight (see WHM in the team, just maybe).

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Originally Posted by Sarcatica

Again we have no idea why Dysnomia chose DRK for Ultimate Coil when WAR is better for most. The only thing I can think of is DRK is easier and less punishing to play than WAR, especially if WAR dies your DPS goes down the gutter, and maybe Living Dead for last part of the fight (see WHM in the team, just maybe).

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I’d have to agree, I’m starting to learn war in savage content and I find ta rotation unlike drks varies more so from fight to fight. Planning around your gauge and your zerk phases. Trying to learn those later phases with as long as it took to get to them along with trying to map out your rotation with the mechanics was probably more trouble than it was worth. That’s just my two cents though

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Originally Posted by EuronTribal

I’d have to agree, I’m starting to learn war in savage content and I find ta rotation unlike drks varies more so from fight to fight. Planning around your gauge and your zerk phases. Trying to learn those later phases with as long as it took to get to them along with trying to map out your rotation with the mechanics was probably more trouble than it was worth. That’s just my two cents though

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At the rate that this fight kicks your ass and sends you back to the start, you'll have your rotation mapped out to the GCD for pretty well every single second of the fight long, long before you actually get the mechanics down well enough to clear.

If DRK was a better pick for the fight, it's going to be because the last phase of the fight is even more heavily designed around Dark Mind than A4S was, because that's really the only situation where DRK actually comes out on top against WAR. The other option is just that the tank composition actually didn't really matter as much as simply having every single player in the party play completely perfectly in terms of mechanics, and their tank just preferred the playstyle of DRK to WAR.

I do die a bit inside every time my WAR gets killed due to poor healing or the like in savage content. Especially if it was during or just before an Inner Release.

I guess DRK's lack of burst was good for something. Still needs a buff.

I find it more surprising that the DRK took ULTIMATUM instead of something like Convalescence. :O

https://twitter.com/eis1008/status/926722316976906240

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Originally Posted by Crater

If DRK was a better pick for the fight, it's going to be because the last phase of the fight is even more heavily designed around Dark Mind than A4S was, because that's really the only situation where DRK actually comes out on top against WAR. The other option is just that the tank composition actually didn't really matter as much as simply having every single player in the party play completely perfectly in terms of mechanics, and their tank just preferred the playstyle of DRK to WAR.

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So what do you think this means for us getting the fixes everyone here has been asking for?

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Originally Posted by EuronTribal

So what do you think this means for us getting the fixes everyone here has been asking for?

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Nothing much. We already know that if you put Dark Mind into a very specific situation, it's incredibly strong, and we also know that you don't have to move very far away from DM's 'ideal' scenario before it stops being much/any better than any other cooldown - and even if it were the absolute best tool for any job in any scenario where you're dealing with magical damage, it's not good enough to hold DRK up when there are so many other, bigger issues with the class.

Keep asking, keep making noise, keep drawing attention to problems, keep offering solutions, until SE finally fixes the job for good.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...104_051635.jpg

I'm not surprised. The jp prolly have like a 20 ping to their servers. I wonder if double weaving is possible during blood weapon with that. I would hope everyone who plays dark knight plays it for fun, why else would you currently?
Wonder what his amount of time spent in grit was?

DRK is so bad and literally unplayable...except for World First. Kappa

if you're so good to the point of competing for world first i don't think choosing between drk and war matters
different case if it's about choosing to put pld or not in your group though.

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Originally Posted by Praesul

[IMG]snip

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Emiin would be the one to ask that.

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Originally Posted by Praesul

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...104_051635.jpg

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Does people actually play this game with classes they have FUN WITH?! Wait wait, this means we are meant to ENJOY THE GAME?! But this is the opposite that this forum shows. THE PLOT THICKENS.

Anyways, grats for the World First to the JP team. They are awesome. I heard most of the players are from the team that did WF on t13 too!

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Originally Posted by Demielle_Tournes

Does people actually play this game with classes they have FUN WITH?! Wait wait, this means we are meant to ENJOY THE GAME?! But this is the opposite that this forum shows. THE PLOT THICKENS.

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I play DRK because I enjoy the class, and so does whats left of the people who still play it. If I liked War more thematically or whatever Id go War. I think this forum is the embodiment of "love" for the job in the sense that we want it to perform as well as the other two tanks, I want Dark Knight to be as good as WAR/PLD so I can enjoy the game even more.

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Originally Posted by SummerScorcher

I play DRK because I enjoy the class, and so does whats left of the people who still play it. If I liked War more thematically or whatever Id go War. I think this forum is the embodiment of "love" for the job in the sense that we want it to perform as well as the other two tanks, I want Dark Knight to be as good as WAR/PLD so I can enjoy the game even more.

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I agree, i play as DRK as well. I was just mocking the general way people react to stuff in the game here "Remove!/Unsubb!/Trash!/Unplayable!/I'm quitting!". I would love a revamp on some skills so DRK can be just as usefull as the other tanks, but the big picture ain't as drmaatic as people make it.

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Originally Posted by Demielle_Tournes

I agree, i play as DRK as well. I was just mocking the general way people react to stuff in the game here "Remove!/Unsubb!/Trash!/Unplayable!/I'm quitting!". I would love a revamp on some skills so DRK can be just as usefull as the other tanks, but the big picture ain't as drmaatic as people make it.

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Their reactions to the state of the job has no bearing on your enjoyment of the game and honestly can only serve to benefit you in the long run. If it doesn't affect your enjoyment, great, but for some, it does.

I will never understand the casual community's hostility towards people pushing for progress on balance issues like it is a personal affront to their fun.

THIS CAN'T BE HAPPENING! I'M IN CHARGE HERE!

DRK is good for progression. Wouldn't surprise me if they had the DRK as MT as much as they could. Considering they still have Grit on. Still doesn't change my stance on how awful it is from a design standpoint.

If people find the 4.0 Paladin that is DRK fun then that's fine. That's your opinion and you are allowed to have it.

"I like DRK, it's fun"

My dude.

I still play mine despite it's shortcomings, because I love the way it plays compared to the other tanks. Of course, this does mean we're hosed and not getting any buffs haha.

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Originally Posted by Baci

DRK is so bad and literally unplayable...except for World First. Kappa

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Sigh...

It's posts like this that lead to jobs never receiving necessary buffs. No one has stand DRK is unplayable. You could clear Neo with double DRK if you really wanted to. That doesn't mean the job's design isn't incredibly flawed.

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Originally Posted by Sarcatica

Again we have no idea why Dysnomia chose DRK for Ultimate Coil when WAR is better for most. The only thing I can think of is DRK is easier and less punishing to play than WAR, especially if WAR dies your DPS goes down the gutter, and maybe Living Dead for last part of the fight (see WHM in the team, just maybe).

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he just knows better, I sugest you to deal with it :D

I hope they don't think DRK is completely okay because of this <.<

Though I do agree I too play DRK bc it's fun...I could never boycott it lol.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Sigh...

It's posts like this that lead to jobs never receiving necessary buffs. No one has stand DRK is unplayable. You could clear Neo with double DRK if you really wanted to. That doesn't mean the job's design isn't incredibly flawed.

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Necessary buffs? Yes, DRK needs some love. But most of the topics in the Forum are displaying DRK as he´s unplayable and that your only choice is to reroll PLD/WAR, which is just not the case

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Originally Posted by Baci

Necessary buffs? Yes, DRK needs some love. But most of the topics in the Forum are displaying DRK as he´s unplayable and that your only choice is to reroll PLD/WAR, which is just not the case

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Those posts are just silly, yes.
DRK is lacking but playability is not the issue here thats why I also would never boycott it. xD

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Originally Posted by Baci

Necessary buffs? Yes, DRK needs some love. But most of the topics in the Forum are displaying DRK as he´s unplayable and that your only choice is to reroll PLD/WAR, which is just not the case

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The current character of this forum is "DRK is in a worse place than WAR was before stance-swapping penalties were removed", which is true, and people have correctly realized that the reason WAR got such huge buffs since then was because they weren't shy about making noise and complaining about things that they didn't like about their class, regardless of balance.

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Originally Posted by Praesul

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...104_051635.jpg

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That's fine and all, everyone should play what they want to play for the fun of it, not because it's "meta".

That being said, I really hope Yoshi doesn't ignore the issues they clearly have. It's viable, but it's just a shadow of the other two tanks. That's hasn't changed.

good dark knights can stop whinning and just get good.

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Originally Posted by Gojin

good dark knights can stop whinning and just get good.

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Doesn't ignore the simple fact that DRK needs some love. Every job is capable of clearing content, doesn't mean the issues with the current kit has to be ignored.

WF is proof that Renard is an outstanding player and tank, not that DRK is "fine".

If anything they should be congratulated and lauded for achieving such a feat at a disadvantage.

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Originally Posted by Gojin

good dark knights can stop whinning and just get good.

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Thank you for contributing to the conversation with a drive by git gud shitpost. Now if you have anything interesting to say by all means...

B-But MU TUNK BALANCE... I've been saying it for a while now, the "balance" is there just because drk needs a small twick dosn't mean the class is broken, underperforms or is any worse than the other tanks. this entire forums section has about the whole first page filled with drk crying the sky is falling threads. yes. it need small adjustment, but the tank balance is there all classes are useful can clear content just like any other class.

For everyone that says the tanks are balanced, please provide me with an explanation how they are in fact balanced, going into the level of detail and thought that has been put into the explanations for how they are not balanced.

I would love to have my apprehensions laid to rest and be convinced that DRK is undeniably balanced with PLD and WAR.

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Originally Posted by TouchandFeel

For everyone that says the tanks are balanced, please provide me with an explanation how they are in fact balanced, going into the level of detail and thought that has been put into the explanations for how they are not balanced.

I would love to have my apprehensions laid to rest and be convinced that DRK is undeniably balanced with PLD and WAR.

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bal·anced
ˈbalənst/Submit
adjective
keeping or showing a balance; arranged in good proportions.
"she assembled a balanced team"
taking everything into account; fairly judged or presented.
"accurate and balanced information"

all tanks, do similar amount of damage, all tanks have similar amount of defesense and raid utility, all tanks can clear content and be efficient at tanking and dps and utiltity. BALANCED. DRK GOT WOLRD FIRST ON THE HARDEST FIGHT IN THIS GAME HISTORY fight that was not gear gated, fight that didn't have broken mechanincs, fight that had the thighest amount of incoming damage and dps checks fight that all it required was skills. drk needs small adjustments but tanks are balanced and drk isn't a bad tank anyone else who dissagree is either ignorant, objectibely wrong or don't have a clue how tanking works in this game.

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Originally Posted by MyaValentine

bal·anced
ˈbalənst/Submit
adjective
keeping or showing a balance; arranged in good proportions.
"she assembled a balanced team"
taking everything into account; fairly judged or presented.
"accurate and balanced information"

all tanks, do similar amount of damage, all tanks have similar amount of defesense and raid utility, all tanks can clear content and be efficient at tanking and dps and utiltity. BALANCED. DRK GOT WOLRD FIRST ON THE HARDEST FIGHT IN THIS GAME HISTORY fight that was not gear gated, fight that didn't have broken mechanincs, fight that had the thighest amount of incoming damage and dps checks fight that all it required was skills. drk needs small adjustments but tanks are balanced and drk isn't a bad tank anyone else who dissagree is either ignorant, objectibely wrong or don't have a clue how tanking works in this game.

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So this proves 100% dark is viable, and no one denies this claim, dark is very much viable. The opinion is that it is not balanced. What exactly does dark bring to the table that paladin or warrior does not do more effectively?

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Originally Posted by MyaValentine

all tanks, do similar amount of damage, all tanks have similar amount of defesense and raid utility, all tanks can clear content and be efficient at tanking and dps and utiltity. BALANCED. DRK GOT WOLRD FIRST ON THE HARDEST FIGHT IN THIS GAME HISTORY fight that was not gear gated, fight that didn't have broken mechanincs, fight that had the thighest amount of incoming damage and dps checks fight that all it required was skills. drk needs small adjustments but tanks are balanced and drk isn't a bad tank anyone else who dissagree is either ignorant, objectibely wrong or don't have a clue how tanking works in this game.

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Sigh...

I was really hoping this fallacy nonsense would die. Angered cleared Omega with SAM/MNK. Are you going to argue they're better than DRG or NIN? Clearing content only proves the jobs are viable. Hooray, DRK is better than 3.0 AST. One should hope the devs have better standards than that. Getting World First doesn't change the fact DRK has objectively inferior mitigation, damage and utility. So what exactly is balanced about it?

Nobody said DRK was unplayable, but to imply that it's not outright worse than the other two is just flat-out ignorant.

It can do the things the other two tanks do, but it either has to work harder to achieve them, or is just simply inherently disadvantaged. All jobs being able to accomplish the hardest content is something that all content is designed around.

If something is the "worst" it's bad by definition, even if it works.

lol these guys,it's viable they said as if this was just cake walk raid or just your regular raid level. We are talking about ultimate here. fight that rrequires you to give every inch of fiber you have, every cd every shield every ounce of dps you can bring. all of you and veryone following "meta" is what's currently wrong with this community who believe that just because you can squeeze 1% more with other classes means they are not "balanced" this is the most balanced game I've seen in a long time, they are all so close in perfomance that if you think by switching to another class you will do better, you first have to look at how you play.

want to know what was not balance? a class not been able to clear a fight due to not enough dps or defence since it did not had magic mitigation. or so far behind that the entire raid communty neglected them for almost the entire expansion. this time around every single tank is up to speed. people complaining dark knight do less damage makes me laught as is you are able to reach top 10 on flogs to make a difference. every tank perform extremely well the problem is not the tanks is the players.

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Originally Posted by MyaValentine

all tanks, do similar amount of damage, all tanks have similar amount of defesense and raid utility, all tanks can clear content and be efficient at tanking and dps and utiltity. BALANCED. DRK GOT WOLRD FIRST ON THE HARDEST FIGHT IN THIS GAME HISTORY fight that was not gear gated, fight that didn't have broken mechanincs, fight that had the thighest amount of incoming damage and dps checks fight that all it required was skills. drk needs small adjustments but tanks are balanced and drk isn't a bad tank anyone else who dissagree is either ignorant, objectibely wrong or don't have a clue how tanking works in this game.

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Sorry, but it would seem you're the one who is wrong and doesn't have a clue how tanking works in this game. Because DRK's overwhelming number of shortcomings compared to the other two tanks should be glaringly obvious to anyone that isn't blind. They have worse mitigation, party utility, AND damage compared to the other two tanks.

Also, the fact that the World First clear happened to contain a DRK rather than a WAR doesn't prove balance at all. It only proves DRK is definitely viable and not totally unplayable. However "viable" and "balanced" most certainly do not mean the same thing.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Sigh...

I was really hoping this fallacy nonsense would die. Angered cleared Omega with SAM/MNK. Are you going to argue they're better than DRG or NIN? Clearing content only proves the jobs are viable. Hooray, DRK is better than 3.0 AST. One should hope the devs have better standards than that. Getting World First doesn't change the fact DRK has objectively inferior mitigation, damage and utility. So what exactly is balanced about it?

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He never said DRK was better than WAR/PLD. People here needs to learn howw to read.