[WHM] [Proposed] Improvement in the face of competition

Hello,

I have noticed for some time that the white magician seems less blooming. In most rosters where I tried to be caught. I was told that he was looking for more astro as he can increase the characteristics of the team. Because, the slogan for falling sadistic is Max DPS.

For white mages HL is more likely to be integrated into a roster. I wish it to have a support spell that increases the team's DPS by 5% for 15 seconds with the condition of having all three flowers in the gauge. The duration of recharging, (for the equilibrium of the game), will surely be 120 seconds.

What do you think ?

WHM is already the most represented healer in savage content, and from the streams I have seen, it seems to be used a lot in Ultimate progression too. Given that ASTs balance is at a 5% spread value, and locked behind RNG (not the first one), I don't think this is what WHM needs.

A lot of people, including non-healers, can see that the healer role is the most balanced in the game at the moment. There may be some QoL changes that would help here and there, but this is a significant buff that is not needed. It also steps on ASTs territory a lot. Right now WHM needs nothing. The lack of utility can sometimes be an issue, but as of now it has stengths in other areas that are keeping it desirable. Should that diminish, these threads will have some value. As of right now, no healers need any buffs.

Healers in general are pretty balanced instead of getting a damage buff I wish they would change lily generation and the effects of Lilies . Same with our traits its pretty lackluster.

Other then that I really wish DB used one Lily or got stronger the more lilies used..

I really hate how the role is balanced and yet the only changes we got was Cure 1 becoming 100% and P1 becoming an Aoe both are pretty lackluster and boring.

Nothing has changed since 3.4 besides us getting crazy amounts of MP. A whole expansion for MP.. The innovation! :)

Yep, I'm not sure yet another group DPS buff is the right direction for WHM. Keeping the healers separate and distinct works well with the job system, there's really very little reason to have all 3 healers being renames of each other when it's very little effort to hop between them as needed.

WHM could do with a better means to generate Lilys in a raid environment, something a change to Secret of the Lily II could address, perhaps a % chance per Stone, or even a Lily each time you cast Aero II for example.

I don't think we *need* it, and I'd hope they could be a bit more creative than simply "here's 5% more raid damage".

I mean, a more fun one would be to let Stone have a chance to generate lilies, and at 3 lilies unlock a new instant cast high potency attack that uses all 3 lilies (maybe "Drown" or something since we have all of one water based spell right now). If the goal is to give WHM more damage contribution, that'd do it without simply copying what AST does and gives us a more interesting button to press (or not press if you want to DB at that point instead).

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Originally Posted by Tridus

I don't think we *need* it, and I'd hope they could be a bit more creative than simply "here's 5% more raid damage".

I mean, a more fun one would be to let Stone have a chance to generate lilies, and at 3 lilies unlock a new instant cast high potency attack that uses all 3 lilies (maybe "Drown" or something since we have all of one water based spell right now). If the goal is to give WHM more damage contribution, that'd do it without simply copying what AST does and gives us a more interesting button to press (or not press if you want to DB at that point instead).

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Love this but I'd personally go with Quake since it's a more universally recognized spell, but your point about having a good water damage spell is still great.

I'd personally like for them to continue the angle of White Mages being 'raw' or 'brute force' healers and instead increase their personal damage dealing capabilities, rather than give them group wide buffs.

Getting Lilies through dealing damage is an idea that has been pitched a lot of times. It would regularly reduce the cooldown on our big hit (Assize) and reduce the reliance on using GCD heals when oGCD heals would become available more often as well.

Of course, White Mages might just need a few potency adjustments too, to cement them as the powerhouse of the healers. Looking at FFLogs, it's apparent that the lower potencies of Scholars don't seem to be bothering them all that much. And Astrologian cards are more than likely covering up the difference in potential DPS. :p

I don't want some buff to group DPS. I want something that would allow us to protect against status effects, or cause damage shields that can be placed on our partymates that will deal damage to enemies who strike them. That seems to go along with the "protector of the party" role the devs have chosen for WHM.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

I don't want some buff to group DPS. I want something that would allow us to protect against status effects, or cause damage shields that can be placed on our partymates that will deal damage to enemies who strike them. That seems to go along with the "protector of the party" role the devs have chosen for WHM.

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they have chosen "pure healer" for WHM, however, a reflect spell would be nice.

i want an aoe dispell for WHM,
Raise II with 100% HP and without weakness (but unable to use it together with swiftcast),
give DRK a proper ultimate cd and give Living Dead to WHM - as a buff you can apply to a party member

I would love to see Asylum have it's lackluster HP regeneration removed altogether and instead have any party member within the AoE be unable to have their HP dip below 1. It would be a cool safety net and function more like the sanctuary it's named after. Of course it would need its CD increased and duration reduced since it would make barriers unnecessary for certain mechanics but it would assure that no one doubts the usefulness of a pure healer ever again.

No damage buff thanks, I would rather see us get some protective ability. What about adding a Reflect effect to Asylum and bounce a little damage back if they're in the bubble? Or add an Esuna effect to it and cleanse people who walk in?

Maybe just give us AoE Esuna?

Maybe upgrade DB a little bit and give it the ability to spread to multiple targets or make it stronger depending on how many lilies it eats?

Anyof those are way better than a damage buff.

I'd definitely have a damage buff over getting a shield. Given WHM damage reduction seems like unnecessary homogenization.

That said, WHM REALLY doesn't need buffs.

WHM is okay power-wise at the moment, but the lilies are still boring and non-interactive and they still have the fewest abilities of all the healers by a noticeable margin. While a damage buff would feed into current job desirability, I don't think flat damage up buffs are a healthy design choice (see Ninja being basically mandatory since release).

Either that or abandon this weird fixation on bigger numbers = zero utility, because that ends up being true for about half a patch until the utility jobs get their numbers buffed again.

Personally i think they should just change Secret of the Lillies II to "When you cast Stone, you have an X% chance (possibly 20-30%) and when you successfully restore HP with Regen you have a Y% (probably 15-20%) and a Z% chance with Medica II (4-6%, which would bring the chance to around 32-48% in 8 mans and 16-24% in 4 mans)

The idea for me would be that if you play optimally (eg Regens and DPS) you would have a steady generation of lillies, ofc the Regen and Medica II hots would NOT generate on overheals. And if the odds are too much, you can always invoke a hidden cooldown similar to certain procs in wow to keep the flow steady, and if you really REALLY need a lilly you would simply jusf cast Cure for the guaranteed proc

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Originally Posted by Brandedblade

*Snip*

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This is a change to the awful trait I can get behind. Added onto this I would like if Stone 4 automatically generated 1 lily if you had zero lilies. Just so you can use DB if a Tank has full Hp and you needed the lily for a TB.

The only part about your trait I hate is Cdr I absolutely hate Cdr and still feel like it offers nothing with how scripted encounters are.

I'm not as bothered by the cooldown reduction myself, when I went into this idea I was thinking about Divine Benison and making it to where whms could be able to keep a steady generation of lilies for it or if they really want the cdr. But expanding upon it, i do think an addendum of "You can only add a Lilly to the Healing Gauge through Secrets of the Lilly II every 6-10 seconds" I think the goal I'm trying to go for is to have a steady stream of lillies available for either ever DB or to use for CDR if thats what you go for, but without a limiter you'd definitely would run the risk of just instantly getting a full stack of lillies with nothing to use it on. But however, the cooldown would not affect Secret of the Lillies I so you can still force proc with Cure if you prefer

I both love the idea of the first Stone being 100% but with the internal cooldown idea I have some worries of conflict.

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Originally Posted by NobleWinter

I would love to see Asylum have it's lackluster HP regeneration removed altogether and instead have any party member within the AoE be unable to have their HP dip below 1. It would be a cool safety net and function more like the sanctuary it's named after. Of course it would need its CD increased and duration reduced since it would make barriers unnecessary for certain mechanics but it would assure that no one doubts the usefulness of a pure healer ever again.

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This sounds really broken no matter how long the CD or duration. I can imagine this be used to cheese through mechanics and would be even more broken if the white mage can continue casting healing spells while its up...

Would be nice I think if Asylum could reduce magic damage...kind of like a "Shell" type effect.

Personally, I have a couple of issues with whm that I would like to see addressed:

1) Lilies suck, they aren't any fun... I just ignore lilies past the first stack. In choreographed encounters like FFXIV has, you really aren't holding onto your assize, asylum, and/or other skills in order to use them with lilies. Instead you use them at a specific time regardless of your lily stacks.
There's nothing fun about them, you just really care that you have at least one and that's where it ends. (And even then, you won't throw away a gcd just to get a stack if you don't have one)

Somehow that needs to be addresses. I'm not sure what the best way of going about this is. I suspect it will be hard to find a way to make it work because lilies, from the very start, felt like a tacky add on to give us some kind of a gauge rather than a thought out mechanic.

2) The damage output from bosses is such that it's not that common to be able to leverage your aoe hots properly. It takes a good amount of coordination between healers, trust in your fellow party members (ie: that they don't need to be topped off in case they screw up the next mechanic), and knowledge of fights to leverage them properly. And that's when you -can- afford to let things tick, which isn't always.
The fact that the PI changes go more in the direction of topping people off also hurts.

At the moment medica II HoTs just feel like extra "insurance" that will most likely overheal and sometimes might help top a random party member up. If you compare this to the effective healing/shielding of succor and noct helios II, it's a little weak and/or hard to work with.
I would love to hear what other whm's think of this.

Maybe having lillies affect the duration or potency of medica II HoTs could be an option that wouldn't shift the balance of healers.

Other than that I think the balance between healers is pretty good. I don't think whm needs shields or anything else. It flows well, has high sustainable hps. It's good.

Have to agree that Lilies are somehow "meh". I too find myself caring about them only when I need DB (or when I have nothing better to do).

Otherwise WHM feels fine.

As weird as it sounds, I kinda like how lillies are "meh." If I wanted a more mechanically intensive healer, SCH and AST are available to me any time.

As an AST I greatly value whm heal power. Yes they bring less dps but concidering how much people die during progression, often more heal results in more dps as a dead dps doesn't dps.
Ofc if you consider a. Perfectly mastered fight with trivial heal check whm might be less interesting but then at this point, dps shouldnt be an issue anyway.

I'd like the shield spell to have its CD removed and have the shield increase with lily. During progression I tend to do little dps to ensure less death and proper progression which makes me end up with 3 unusable lilies (or usable but on skill I save for later)

WHM doesn't need buffs. You have complex alternatives if that is your flavour, be it pets or mini-RNG games. Rolling all healers together into a big ball of similarity isn't the way. WHM may be the bog-standard 'you know what you're gonna get' Healer, but that is probably why they are the most represented - there's no bells and whistles to hold the raw power back, no ifs-buts -- it's your plain and simple raw healing powerhouse. Not interesting? Well, some of us do love the simplicity of spewing big health numbers in-between lobbing boulders and belching out airy DoT's. I find the others more of a nuisance -- I mean, I understand their appeal, but sometimes the extras just feel tacked on.

Issues I see for whm are lack of dmg buff and lack of mitigation. Both of these are hard to include while maintaining the flavor of the class and would only be reasonable to add as part of a large scale change to classes. In such a situation, my suggestions would be:
group dps buff that scales with the targets' current hp, probably 5% when they are at full health
group buff that triggers a heal the next time the targets take damage, damage healed would be proportional to the size of the attack and could save them if they took more than their full hp

well, they did have mitigation, in the form of Stoneskin and stoneskin 2, but those were taken away, leaving them the only healer at lower levels to not have a shield, in favor of a Post-60 shield on one person that you need lilies for.

overall, every healer got hit with some nerfs and we can all admit it's been a long road so far. things have been fixed, things are still not quite right, but i'll say they're in a decent place for now.