Congratulations to all you botters....

Good job on getting all your gold gathering and crafting tools. I'm sure you all feel proud...

SE would you please do something about these guys!!!

Thanks

Laughs at OP for thinking botting is the primary cause.

Alt-tabs to Netflix.

Continues to spam Enter on gamepad while watching show.

Laughs at Noc for thinking that spamming enter is the primary cause...

not everyone with them is botting at this point

the guys who had them 2 days after the patch on the other hand.....


i coulda had my carp and alchemy ones by this point if i didnt keep getting distracted with a ton of other stuff, but alas, im working on all achievemnts and not just specific items

There's been plenty of time since the patch. The golden DoH tools, while time consuming, are not unreasonable to have at this point. Golden DoL tools aren't unreasonable either, I suppose, but nggggggghhhhh as someone who's going for the one for Botany, anyone who has a DoL luminary is a glutton for punishment. I'm only 15% finished and I don't even have a linkshell to distract me into doing other things.

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Originally Posted by Raldo

There's been plenty of time since the patch. The golden DoH tools, while time consuming, are not unreasonable to have at this point. Golden DoL tools aren't unreasonable either, I suppose, but nggggggghhhhh as someone who's going for the one for Botany, anyone who has a DoL luminary is a glutton for punishment. I'm only 15% finished and I don't even have a linkshell to distract me into doing other things.

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Timewise, its actually less time to get DoL gold tools (besides for FSH lol... that one is torture).

Average Synths Per Hour (enter spam/netflix) -> 50. 5700/50 is ~115 hours. You CAN make this faster with hasty hand, but then you can't just enter spam and watch netflix :/

Average Gathers per Hour 150-250 (depending on node locations, 3 nodes ~40y apart can get all the way to 250/hr) = Somewhere between 85-140 hours. The problem is gathering fatigue only allows you to do ~4 hours per day before it hits and just frustrates you while you can synth for much longer periods of time giving you the "feeling" that DoH tools are quicker, when in reality they are the same time investment basically.

Fishing, on the other hand, its around average 70-80 gathers per hour, or around 300 hours for the gold rod.. its the only "Gold Item" that has a significant time difference than the others.

I assure you the people who are dedicated enough to have obtained a DoH luminary already used Hasty Hand, so you merely proved my point.

DoL however, neither has a quickie option, nor can they not pay attention. The raw numbers may show DoL has the edge, but I assure you, no one can pump out that kind of gathers per hour with any kind of reliability. "3 nodes ~40y apart" is a pipe dream.

DoH just has to worry about where to get all the supplies (and what to craft -- boy do I feel sorry for weavers).

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"3 nodes ~40y apart" is a pipe dream

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Iron Lake is pretty close to this.

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Originally Posted by Zdenka

Timewise, its actually less time to get DoL gold tools (besides for FSH lol... that one is torture).

Average Synths Per Hour (enter spam/netflix) -> 50. 5700/50 is ~115 hours. You CAN make this faster with hasty hand, but then you can't just enter spam and watch netflix :/

Average Gathers per Hour 150-250 (depending on node locations, 3 nodes ~40y apart can get all the way to 250/hr) = Somewhere between 85-140 hours. The problem is gathering fatigue only allows you to do ~4 hours per day before it hits and just frustrates you while you can synth for much longer periods of time giving you the "feeling" that DoH tools are quicker, when in reality they are the same time investment basically.

Fishing, on the other hand, its around average 70-80 gathers per hour, or around 300 hours for the gold rod.. its the only "Gold Item" that has a significant time difference than the others.

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You still can, kinda. You just need to be able to see the synth out of the corner of your eye in case of HH half-failing, at which point you enter spam as usual. Only thing HH adds is the need to push Up periodically. >_>

Weaver is actually pretty simple in recipes, mats etc on the path to luminary.
Leatherworker is a completely different story, however. No way to gather, you must farm via combat, and drop rate is horrendous.

Not sure if anyone has said this at some point, but if you are really dedicated to getting your tool quickly, you don't even have to stop for gathering fatigue. A break still counts as 1 mining job.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sartori

Good job on getting all your gold gathering and crafting tools. I'm sure you all feel proud...

SE would you please do something about these guys!!!

Thanks

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You going to ban people for pressing X on there controller while watching Netflix and getting 1-50 craft? come on Bots,pressing enter 50000 times or getting a program would get you 1-50 and you still be watching netflix and be AFK. You still get 1-50 around the same time you still have to farm the mats yourself you still waste gil on shards so it's not game break that people press 5.000 times while watching netflix or if they go and use a program.

Sadly i wish SE would make crafting more fun so we have to press wait and other stuff then just one thing for hours at end.

The real problem here is Netflix. Square Enix should ban Netflix~

If someone comes up with an alternative to spamming enter while watching tv all the more power to them although don't go around labeling people who do sit there spamming enter all day as bots because you can't fathom doing that yourself without botting. It belittles the achievement of those who've very patiently done it. All the more power to them I know I personally find crafting to be less interesting than arranging all the grains of rice in a bag into a single file line down a hall for no apparent reason.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sartori

Laughs at Noc for thinking that spamming enter is the primary cause...

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Actually it is. Don't embarrass yourself Sartori. Being able to craft essentially like a bot, or perhaps even faster, by simply spamming a button on the gamepad while alt-tabbed watching a show is a much bigger problem than botting. Why? because it's not an exploit of any kind and thus even the most ethical players can be expected to be doing this.

The issue is the repetitive and boring nature of the crafting process that leads to a grind in the form of spamming. If they change the process to be more complex and engaging, yet less tedious at the same time then not only will this naturally defer bots but also attract players to pay more attention.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

Actually it is. Don't embarrass yourself Sartori. Being able to craft essentially like a bot, or perhaps even faster, by simply spamming a button on the gamepad while alt-tabbed watching a show is a much bigger problem than botting. Why? because it's not an exploit of any kind and thus even the players with the most ethical players can be expected to be doing this.

The issue is the repetitive and boring nature of the crafting process that leads to a grind in the form of spamming. If they change the process to be more complex and engaging, yet less tedious at the same time then not only will this naturally defer bots but also attract players to pay more attention.

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This is 100% true. I <3 your post, especially the last bit!

As mentioned above this problem is SE's fault, they should make a mini game where you can't spam a button.

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Originally Posted by tymora

Iron Lake is pretty close to this.

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iron lake is the only one close to this on a good day. id say average overall in game is closer to 150-175

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Originally Posted by Shikaree

Now the question is, where do you draw the line between spamming your turbo controller and using a botting program?

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Most people don't. Apparently using a turbo controller -is- botting.

Ah, the bliss of self-righteous arguments.

i know how you feel, you dont have the time to do it, but some other people REALLY have the time to do it
i saw a guy who finished BOTANIST achievements and this is no easy task as the nodes disappear after few tries (unlike fishing)
but im SURE he didnt bot his way for it, because it just cant be done

it's not botting, if you want something, you just can do it... if you dont have the time or electricity for it, dont call them botters :p

but they do exist anyway, mostly in lalafel parties :P :P

All this whining about Turbo controllers .. Blah Blah Blah... or how you can synth while watching TV.. wahhhhhh.. you have the options to do the same... and if SE really wanted to stop turbo controllers.. all they would have to do is change it so when you spam enter it doesnt go...

Recipe>>(whatever Recipe)>>>Main Hand>> confirm>>confirm>>standard>>standard>>etc>>finish.. and then to solve the problem make it go from Recipe >> back to Recipe.. so you are forced to go down to mainhand like it used to be.. this is not a player created problem at all.. SE changed it so you could spam enter.. all you can is try and level up as much as you can under the system.. because crafting is the most tedious and boring thing in this game ( well leveling up to 50 )

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Originally Posted by SynysterBlitz

SE changed it so you could spam enter

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Not really true. It was changed because people who actually craft were tired of the monotonous use by SE of extra wasteful menu selections just to craft the same item. So they removed the extra crap which YES did make it more bot friendly. I do however agree with your point of anyone who may complain about others spamming enter at their PC while watching TV/Netflix/w/e on their PCs as extremely valid.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SynysterBlitz

All this whining about Turbo controllers .. Blah Blah Blah... or how you can synth while watching TV.. wahhhhhh.. you have the options to do the same... and if SE really wanted to stop turbo controllers.. all they would have to do is change it so when you spam enter it doesnt go...

Recipe>>(whatever Recipe)>>>Main Hand>> confirm>>confirm>>standard>>standard>>etc>>finish.. and then to solve the problem make it go from Recipe >> back to Recipe.. so you are forced to go down to mainhand like it used to be.. this is not a player created problem at all.. SE changed it so you could spam enter.. all you can is try and level up as much as you can under the system.. because crafting is the most tedious and boring thing in this game ( well leveling up to 50 )

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Yes this really solves the problem....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Madruk

Yes this really solves the problem....

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and how can it be solved oh mighty one...

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Originally Posted by SynysterBlitz

and how can it be solved oh mighty one...

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It can be solved by making the synthesis process more involving and player interaction more influential. Oh, what do you know? They are working on doing just that.

Putting the default cursor position back to recipe after selecting a recipe would be an incredibly stupid move on SE's part. The last thing they need to do right now is alienate players. The change to make it so you could enter spam was a courtesy to the players that just happened to make botting easier. I'm sure they weighed the options carefully when they chose to change it to its current behavior. Did you craft any before they made it so you could enter spam? It was far faaaaaar more annoying that it is now for legitimate crafters.

I can't believe everyone isn't aware of the whole lesson learned by FFXIV's failures: Discouraging botting and/or RMT is fine, but if doing so hinders legitimate players it should not be done.

Quickest way to stop enter spamming/turbo controls?

move the damn cursor default position back away from "Recipe" where it starts now

have it start on he material list or on requests like it used to.





on a side note, im finishing my alembic in the morning, 20 synths to go(and im too lazy to do it tonight)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

Quickest way to stop enter spamming/turbo controls?

move the damn cursor default position back away from "Recipe" where it starts now

have it start on he material list or on requests like it used to.





on a side note, im finishing my alembic in the morning, 20 synths to go(and im too lazy to do it tonight)

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No, the quickest way is to turn off the servers.

Not that it matters, because "quickest" is not synonymous with "best."

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jinko

As mentioned above this problem is SE's fault, they should make the achievement and crafting less of a chore to do.

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Fixed that for you.

Spamming X while watching shows = Having to be in front of PC actually doing an action.
Also try Spammin X on a synth 10 levels above your level ^^ good luck with your spamming...

Botting = Going to sleep/work and waking/comming back to +2/3/4 Levels on your craft,
doing nothing whatsoever and then bragging about how fast you got all jobs to 50 lolz.

Also a person that dosent bot has to take his crafting hours out of his playtime hours.
A person that bots dont have to worry about that.

I play about 6 hrs a day, in those hrs i need to Craft, Farm, Gather, Do endgame content, Sociallize,
Do leves and so on.
A botter dosent worry about that. he does all that and then before going to sleep or work he puts his bot to work and comes back levelled.

A botter practically has all day as a playtime timeslot.
He can craft non stop for 14 hrs and never get fatigued off of it
Like the legit players do after a few hrs.
Comes and does fun stuff in his normal playtime.

THAT IS A HUGE DISADVANTAGE FOR THE LEGIT PEOPLE.
So please people stop saying Botting and Spamming X is one and the same...

This post aint gonna have many likes cause Botters are more than legit crafters lmao...

lol botters just ate their argument about spammin X and botting being same thing