Hello everyone, I apologize for making this topic and I realize before even asking that the majority of answers will be "play what you want," but I can't help but feel I need to ask as I still have doubts as I read more posts on various sites.
Ok, so while I really love Red Mage and enjoy playing it, I keep seeing left and right about it being the worst dps or that no one wants it in groups and even in Party Finder I see groups that prefer other dps over Red Mage so I feel like I have to swap jobs if I just even want to do basic content now. At first I was gonna swap to Smn since I finished getting it to 70, but it feels so daunting with all the stuff to keep track of that I doubt I could be able to play it effectively while also dodging boss mechanics, so I conisdered SAM next, but I'm not sure if melee are more wanted than casters or if SAM itself is even wanted.
So, I guess what I am asking is, are melee jobs still desired and is SAM a good melee job to play as over Smn and especially Red Mage?
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10-31-2017, 08:27 AMRenryuuI know you guys hate this question but... I gotta try and ask anyway. :(
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10-31-2017, 08:57 AMMStowastiqVahlshdeh
Just play what you want............
Just kidding. I main Summoner and the three things I will tell you are:
1. lf you don't like the idea of micromanaging a pet then Summoner is probably not for you:
This means always having your pet on the correct mode to prevent things like aggroing mobs before the tank as people prep for duty in a dungeon. The knockback on trash mobs that annoys the heck out of tanks because the pet was on, what I refer to as "lazy summoner mode". Essentially it is like having to watch an additional person and keep them alive as well as making sure all of their buffs and attacks are always used appropriately to maximize dps too.
While SE re added Sustain to heal our pets, there is still the need to make sure your pet is in range to do things like Devotion. Learning how far to run with pet in tow to keep the pet out of AOEs and how to not waste Bahamut's never long enough up time.
2. While I just stated above that being lazy is not a good trait for Summoners to have, I will also say that having a pet in itself can spoil you and make non pet jobs seem tedious or even boring:
I will always main Summoner until SE decides to add BST or PUP or some other pet job because having a pet has spoiled me and made playing other jobs feel as if my hands are tied behind my back.
3. Being caster vs melee is a huge contrast in play style as it is, but being caster WITH a pet makes that difference stand out even more:
After being way the heck away from the mob and at a safe distance to cast, it can be tedious learning to avoid AOEs and learn mechanics all over again while in melee range. This shock was immediately obvious to me while playing SAM, NIN, DRG and MNK after maining a caster for so long.
Also there is the concept of "positionals", meaning standing on the correct side of the mob to do the most damage. Its a huge difference taking damage from just being so close to the mob.
As for rdm, I have not played it since FFXI so I cannot advise you on it unfortunately. I wish you the best of luck! -
10-31-2017, 09:00 AMDualgunner
Red Mages are being denied in pf now? I actually did not see that one coming. But when rez dispenser isn't needed it really shows the weaknesses.
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10-31-2017, 09:06 AMRenryuuWell, more indirectly than directly. Mostly PF I see tend to want SAM/NIN/SMN/Brd/Mch and usually make it so Red Mages and Black Mages can't join the party by excluding them as a dps option. While I wouldn't mind going Mch since I did dabble a bit with it in HW, I can't seem to grasp the timing of Wildfire with Overheating so I didn't want to try and level it only for it to get even harder on me to understand. Smn, I played during ARR and a bit of HW so I know the basics, but trying to do it all on a controller feels a bit difficult and I don't know when or if I'd ever get SB for PC since currently I'm playing it on PS4.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dualgunner
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10-31-2017, 09:38 AMHasrat
Probably not seeing a demand for RDM because the supply is so high.
Hell, last PF I joined for some unsynced farming, literally 6/8 of the people that joined (actually one or two more that later dropped out), were all RDM. Started getting funny after the third. -
10-31-2017, 09:54 AMwereotter
Samurai is in an good place right now. It provides high personal damage, but the only utility it provides is a slashing debuff. Samurai is a solid job, only thing missing is that it needs an agro dump.
That said, your melee jobs all play pretty differently from each other and provide different benefits, but if you're looking for a more solid spot in pre formed party content, Dragoon and Ninja seem to be always sought after. Also, just form the perspective of normal queues and what roles fill up faster in party finder, there are fewer players in melee jobs in general than ranged. Which does open up options for you that playing a caster/ranged job doesn't have. -
10-31-2017, 10:02 AMRenryuuAre either Dragoon or Ninja Controller friendly? I do have Drg at 50 as I played it a short while in ARR but ended up going back to caster since my FC (which is now dead as a doorknob) was filled with melee. I have Nin in the 40s but looking at the skills earlier today, I feel like it wouldn't be very controller friendly, but not sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by wereotter
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10-31-2017, 01:43 PMMStowastiqVahlshdehI use controller for most of my sumn abilities and the only thing that bothers me is that I need more space but otherwise its very possible.Quote:
Originally Posted by Renryuu
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10-31-2017, 07:24 PMSwarleyMcSwarls
I was expecting a post about stat weights. So anything besides that is totally fine and not redundant. With that said, RDM is totally fine right now. The issue it has is it generally competes with two other jobs for one slot. Where melee (generally) competes for two slots, and the utility + damage of bard and machinist make them welcome in almost any party. For damage, it isn't so far behind that it's not worth taking. Any good red mage player is going to do more damage than an average player on any other job (with comparable gear) still. And red mage offers great utility with the near instant battle rez as well as the physical damage buff it provides with embolden.
So I wouldn't worry about changing from red mage if you like it. It's mostly just that there are SO MANY people playing dps jobs that that's what fills up first in party finder. And as a caster you are generally fighting for one spot in that party. So you have even smaller odds of getting in. Outside of that, if people are directly excluding you from a party finder group JUST because you are on red mage, they are doing something wrong.
Also, if you are looking to play a melee that is desired in groups it would go NIN > DRG >> MNK >> SAM. BUT, in regular party finder groups and nearly every group in general, just having good players is all that matters. You can run about any composition and clear all content that isn't super savage raiding. -
10-31-2017, 07:26 PMSwarleyMcSwarls
If you are looking to play a dps that is most "welcome" in groups, I'd say bard and machinist followed by ninja though.
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10-31-2017, 09:49 PMRenryuuI guess of those 3, Ninja would be my only current option. While I don't mind the archer aspect, I've never been a bard person and usually don't use that job in FF games. I love the idea of Machinist and did play it a short bit in HW, but the SB version of Mch has me a bit confused with the timing of Wildfire and overheating so I don't think I'd be able to manage to play it at a decent level. I could try and play Ninja, though as I mentioned before, my biggest problem with it will be trying to find a skill layout that is comfortable for me. Though to be honest, Sam is really the only melee dps I have an interest in since when it comes to melee, I've always been a fan of swords and Sam is the only sword dps job at the moment.Quote:
Originally Posted by SwarleyMcSwarls
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10-31-2017, 10:14 PMNorthernLadMSPSheep do tend to flock to the easiest option.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hasrat
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11-01-2017, 01:38 AMwereotterPersonal opinon, Dragoon, no not so much. Their base rotation at level 70 includes 9 separate skills plus you'll need buttons for your jumps and buffs. So far for me, it's just been too many buttons needed to be able to comfortably play on a controller. Ninja, on the other hand, has only 5 unique skills in it's base rotation, but your ninjutsu are going to need to take up four slots on your hotbar, so that's a lot of your room as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Renryuu
I play both on controller and find ninja to be manageable, but dragoon to be too much. -
11-01-2017, 01:51 AMdotsforlife
RDM is fine for progression groups but other than that they tend to get shunned. Since many groups are already on farm for this tier you'll likely find less PF groups for progression purposes.
Melee wise, go with NIN if you like to be the "go to" class everyone wants, have the best utility but lowest melee dps. Go SAM if you want to be a selfish (I don't mean that negatively either) dps that puts up the highest numbers but no utility. Both have that weeb factor. NIN is more complex to play and more reliant on internet speed/stable connection as well so there's that.
Every class is mostly controller friendly but certain classes, even though they have a smaller amount of skills in their main rotation, have a lot of oGCD's or several needed for one use (NIN mudras/AST card management) so they tend to have more clutter. Still do able though you just need to situate everything to your liking. -
11-01-2017, 02:11 AMTzain
Keep in mind though, balance is constantly in shift. So todays goat is tomorrows G.O.A.T.
It's been my experience o'er these many mmo years that the class that has a playstyle that feels most comfortable to you will be the one you perform best in. And that synchronicity is the thing that really defines how well a player handles the class.
I've met many many players who have single handedly redefined what a job/class/etc could do compared to what I've seen others accomplish, and each of them when asked how they manage to perform so well just sort of /shrug and say "I don't know, I just do it" which I've come to realize means "This playstyle fits me". -
11-01-2017, 08:39 AMRenryuu
I've been thinking, I really would prefer to stick to a caster dps as magic is what I love most, so I was wondering, how is Black Mage? Would it be a good choice to play or is it's turret style gameplay just not able to keep up with content?
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11-01-2017, 08:45 AMZetsumei_Tsunarashi
It's funny because it seems like only a few weeks ago people were saying rdm is God tier and smn was trash.
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11-01-2017, 10:05 AMDualgunnerUnfortunately black mage is in a worse spot than red mage. Less output than summoner and brings no utility whatsoever.Quote:
Originally Posted by Renryuu
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11-01-2017, 10:08 AMRenryuu
Ah, I see. So I guess I'll just have to keep practicing with Smn and hope I can get the hang of it or transfer off of Famfrit onto a server where there are FCs that may like having a Red Mage.
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11-01-2017, 10:17 AMDualgunner
Summoner is right now the strongest dps in many circumstances. That said, what's this you're talking about server transferring and finding an fc that will take a red mage? O.o
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11-01-2017, 10:23 AMPowewell Ninja is controller friendly( for me at least) not sure about the floor tankQuote:
Originally Posted by Renryuu
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11-01-2017, 11:09 AMRenryuuWell, my current FC is essentially dead and Famfrit seems a lot more sparse in players from when I was last playing. On top of that, many groups seem to be only interested in Brd/Mch/Drg/Nin jobs with the occasional Smn wanted with almost never Rdm requested and since it seems the server isn't as active as it use to be, I feel like I'd might have a better shot elsewhere.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dualgunner
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11-01-2017, 12:29 PMTitaniaYaerem
RDM actually isn't that bad. Sure its damage is lower than the other casters but it also probably has the most utility compared to the other casters. Sure SMN can raise but you normally won't have them hardcast a rez and they are limited to 1 instant rez due to Swiftcast CD, where as RDM isn't limited by Swiftcast and can rez every other cast so long as their mana allows for it. I've seen RDMs save wipes by getting both healers up and giving tank triage healing until the party was stable. Utility RDM>SMN>BLM // Damage SMN>BLM>RDM These are things to take into consideration when playing certain classes. If you were to play SAM though, that's even less desirable than RDM. If you check recruitment, most groups will recruit just about any DPS, BLM and SAM will be the least desirable amongst most groups. So if you really like RDM then continue playing it.
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11-01-2017, 12:47 PMDualgunner
And what about when people aren't dying anymore? On farm, the only utility RDM retains is embolden, which isn't enough to justify its being not only the weakest caster, but the weakest dps. We're weaker than bard and provide none of the relevant utility.
Once you're farming and people stop dying, RDM's raise is useless. Having a job balanced purely on progression is what led to OPs problem. There's also no reason to take RDM into ultimate, its raise utility is beyond useless in there. -
11-01-2017, 08:58 PMAshburyEvery single job is being denied access to PF groups.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dualgunner
This is the default 'I think my job is garbage and I need devs to notice me baaawwwwwwwwwn' cry for help everyone uses now. Go to a black mage discussion thread and you'll see people bitching about BLM being locked out of PF because the job is oh so bad. Not long ago SMN were spewing the same BS.
If you go by these people content is being cleared with groups consisting entirely of Paladins. -
11-01-2017, 10:45 PMManuelBravoQuote:
Originally Posted by Renryuu
Hmmm How can say this with out sounding a bit mean. RDM is not that bad from what I have played so far and some of my fellow LS members love them. When I party with them they show a great potential and really make me want to level mine. However, there are some people who really, really should change job. They seem to think being flashy makes sense and can't seem to gauge their moves with mobs who do aoes, can't use or know how to us their spells or actions to it's full potential. It's not that RDM is not wanted, is more that most RDM players really don't know how to play it even when maxed out. From what I have seen most ignore the basics and they remind me of a little kid playing street fighter and just pressing buttons. Now if your a type of player that actually wants to take the time to learn it go for it. Practice Practice practice. -
11-01-2017, 11:43 PMLambdafishRDM raise really needs to be scaled back and its damage utility needs to be brought forward.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dualgunner
We can only dream :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Ashbury
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11-01-2017, 11:46 PMDualgunnerAMEN /10charQuote:
Originally Posted by Lambdafish
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11-02-2017, 12:14 AMLambdafishSimple solutions:Quote:
Originally Posted by Dualgunner
- Make RDM raise more punishing, allow them the doublecast proc, but increase the MP cost of raise.
- Give displacement an INT down effect on the target (spitballing, probably a better place to put it - a tether rework maybe) -
11-02-2017, 09:45 PMMaero
I have seen a few pf groups not want Red Mage but far more often do i see no blm because well... it needs changes
Smn will for sure be wanted because SE went their usual route of job "fixes" and just buff the crap out of it so it is OP atm, Sam always sees groups and i have yet to see any not accepting them -
11-02-2017, 09:53 PMLittleSparrow
Play whatever you want. If people are so fixated on speedruns they should get a static, not use PF.
Really though. Everything is clearable with everything and most people in PF who don't accept particular classes hardly even know why. Most of these people just heard their FCs or some forum post talk about it and assume it's the ultimate truth without even looking into the whys. -
11-02-2017, 11:31 PMLambdafishI understand your sentiment, but when it is them making the parties then really they get to ask for what they want. There are multiple solutions such as sending tells, making your own group, or even learning multiple jobs, but when you start by saying "Play what you want" then we have to respect that "Doing whatever you like" applies to everyone.Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleSparrow
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11-04-2017, 05:28 AMwereotter
I should also say, if people are denying a specific job you can bet one of two things. Either they want whatever gear that drops for that job for themselves so they're not letting someone in on that job to take the stuff, or they're scum that cares too much about meta comps to be worth your time. Currently all jobs are viable in all content.
I had them same issue in Heavensward as a monk and seeing PF groups denying entry to only that job because it wasn't "meta". Play what you like, and start your own PF if people aren't letting you into their group.