Learning Party Woes!

Hello beautiful people!

First post here on the forums (promoted from forum stalker), and I want to start off with something nice before I get to the...less lovely portions of "Learning parties."

Typically, most learning parties I either a) create myself or b) join, are typically good experiences. I have meet some good people, and have actually created friendships with people from learning parties.

Unfortunately, more often than not, I run into some stinkers (especially with Shinryu EX learning parties - use to be Susano). I try to place in my descriptions clearly that I have created a "LEARNING party" and where in progression the party should be learning. However, I'm learning myself that "learning party" actually means "clear party" to some.

"2 wipes? This party is hopeless!" Abandon
"Healers just can't git gud" Abandon
"Dps is lacking" Abandon
"Tanks fighting over MT, OT?" Abandon (This one has been pretty recent. I ask before we begin, but have had recent bad luck with tanks changing their minds halfway through).
"Skip soar? No." Abandon (Which is now skip Aerial Blast)
"Front door/ GF aggro / BF aggro / My grandma died / Got to go fishing." Abandon
(Now these I understand. Real life happens. But it is suspicious when something happens immediately after 1 wipe).

I've been wondering the mindset recently on these "learning parties" and how people view them. Also to get out some slight built up frustrations.

Welcome to the forums...and...yeah, have fun and all that.

This reminds me of a clear party I joined earlier today for O3S. I went in as AST and my co-healer was a SCH I believe (could've been another AST, I don't remember). This was the first pull and a DPS, our BLM, died early before we hit the forest phase. Immediately after that, my co-healer calls for a wipe in chat. I ignore them and I assumed everyone else did as well - popped a swiftcast raise...and noticed that I'm the only one healing the Dimensional Wave that killed the BLM. My co-healer suicided themselves on the thorns. I asked them why, they said 'we won't have the DPS'.

Umm...this early in the fight, it's recoverable.

The point of that is that I don't think it's just learning parties...I think it's just NA players in general. They're impatient, expect perfection, even in learning parties, and if something goes off just a tiny little bit, they're ready to give up and quit. I will and have happily kicked players like these out of my groups and blacklisted them, because this kind of attitude is ridiculous. Learning parties doesn't equate to clear party, so don't join one and give an attitude because players don't know the full fight. Don't come into a clear party and rage out because of one DPS death 30 seconds into the fight, or on the very first wipe with a random group.

To me a learning party is exactly that: learning. I'm not there to get a clear. I don't even expect a clear to happen. If by some chance everything goes off correctly and it happens, great, but a learning party is about failing over and over, learning what not to do, because you learn more by getting something wrong than by getting it right by happenstance.

I remember doing Turn 5 over and over and over and over and over trying to get it right. It's just what you do.

My only advice is to stop using the generic terms when you put your party together. Instead of "Learning Party", write something more like, "First time, newbies welcome, expect wipes and lots of them!" By welcoming other newbies you're almost guaranteeing less skilled players. By stating that you expect wipes you imply that you aren't terribly skilled at the game which will scare away some of the elitists. Elitists won't join a "Scrub" party, but less extreme players very much will.

Also, you should set your expectations of the people you want a little lower than ideal. I've made groups that read, "First Time, Casual Pace/Not a Speedrun, I'm blind!", and ended up with players who basically dragged me through the instance at top speed. However, I've also met some very friendly players who understood that my vision might have played a part in my desire not to play at the expected skill level of a hardcore and serious end game player on that particular day. My point is that you've got to set the expectations for yourself and the party very clearly if you want to have the same general experience every time.

P.S. I really am blind. Don't lie to people about having a disability, it makes life hard for me. > : (

After having several bad experiences with Shinryu learning parties, I eventually just skipped into a clear party and two-shotted the fight with no deaths on my end.

If I join a learning party my mindset is “No one knows what is going on. This is probably going to suck.” I stay until the timer runs out unless people start being overly rude.
If it says “clear party” and people can’t make it out of the first phase after a few pulls I’ll leave.

I haven't messed around much with high-end SB content because health issues making it hard to sit upright for long periods. But I can still recall doing many a Zurvan farming party that played out more like learning parties. Like, no bonus and right off the bat a BLM dies because they didn't move off the first falling platform.

Parser shaming was pretty common in learning parties too I can recall. I think it's okay for people to post numbers if the rest of the party okay's it before starting. But like, if you sign up for a first stage greenest of the green learning group that's still just getting a grasp on mechanics maybe don't post everyone's numbers without warning out of spite.

@Kerri

I've tried in the past to post some detailed postings (as detailed as 85 characters or so can get), and it usually takes about 2-3 drops before I manage to get a party to stick around. It's amazing how often dinner happens at 1pm-4pm after a couple of wipes. :P

Jokes aside, people can....well be people. You set expectations, and some (not most) will join with their very own!

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Originally Posted by Texa

I haven't messed around much with high-end SB content because health issues making it hard to sit upright for long periods. But I can still recall doing many a Zurvan farming party that played out more like learning parties. Like, no bonus and right off the bat a BLM dies because they didn't move off the first falling platform.

Parser shaming was pretty common in learning parties too I can recall. I think it's okay for people to post numbers if the rest of the party okay's it before starting. But like, if you sign up for a first stage greenest of the green learning group that's still just getting a grasp on mechanics maybe don't post everyone's numbers without warning out of spite.

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Oh, hey! That's how you reply!

Anywho! I had to remove someone from doing that during a Susano EX learning party. Sadly, it happens. There is always that one somewhere down the line. I understand the benefits to parsing (wish I had one myself - PS4), but I 100% agree it should never be used for harassment purposes...especially when people are learning.

P.S. Thanks for the replies everyone!

The party finder community is fairly terrible. To be honest, it's the players that drive my interest in the game's EX / Savage content down. I don't have time / a career conducive to a static, so it's party finder I need to do things with. And I just don't want to come home from a day of work and deal with that much idiocy, high school drama, pointless anger, and unjustified arrogance from some people who never transitioned to well-adjusted adults. It's like none of these people were on a pee wee league ball team and learned the basics of teamwork / practicing together to get better and instead just want to be at each other's throats and point fingers at each other. If everyone just directed that spirited response toward the boss and not each other, clear rates would be much higher. Too much time is wasted on fighting each other than the boss.

I love the game, but the party finder community just really makes me not want to play it.

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Originally Posted by TyrTry

I understand the benefits to parsing (wish I had one myself - PS4),

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I know it's not an in instance damage meter, but you can use http://ffxiv.2digitalgames.de/ to measure your DPS on Stone, Sky, Sea dummies. Honestly, I find it pretty useful, maybe you will too.