100% mandatory job that boost raid dps by a ton with many utilities while also having personal DPS thats comparable to the selfish DPS with no utility.
when balance was nerfed, i was expecting TA to get hit too, but nope. at least balance is rng
how has NIN escaped all the nerfs?
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10-24-2017, 05:12 AMErzaScarlet77how has NIN escaped all the nerfs?
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10-24-2017, 05:17 AMAzuraWinters
They hide to avoid nerfs.
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10-24-2017, 05:17 AMsilverlunarfox
That's why theyre ninjas..... >.>
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10-24-2017, 06:03 AMSigiria
Nin got hit by the last wave of nerfs.
Gut slash got a reduction on 20 potency, you use that skill for every combo. it was actually the weapon skill doing the most damage in the entirety of a fight.
and "having personal DPS thats comparable to the selfish DPS with no utility." No it does not, it's actually the melee dps doing the less personal damage. -
10-24-2017, 06:09 AMSenorPatty
Substitution jutsu, duh
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10-24-2017, 06:11 AMBourne_Endeavor
To be fair, Ninja's damage isn't the problem nor why it's meta. Like Sigiria, it's the weakest melee DPS. The problem is no other job offers the wealth of utility Ninja does except Dragoon and Bard, who just so happen to also be meta. Unfortunately, Stormblood did absolutely nothing to address the fact we only have one real synergized comp. Nerfing Trick Attack might help loosen the vice gripe Ninjas has on a DPS slot, but it'd still be favoured for its aggro management. Monk and Samurai just can't really make up for that even with Trick at say, 5%. Now that doesn't mean neither aren't good enough for Savage. They're just less useful overall, especially Samurai.
I also want to touch on this. My static ran SAM, MNK, BRD, RDM for our DPS. Ninja is, in no way, mandatory. It's simply the best option.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pence
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10-24-2017, 07:13 AMKalocin
Probably same reason why dark knights have largely been ignored and you have a whole forum of them yelling in a soundless bubble.
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10-24-2017, 08:08 AMPence
100% mandatory? We run MCH, RDM, DRG, MNK and have still cleared 4S for ages....
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10-24-2017, 10:54 AMAlaelIts already a very hard class to use at their Maximum efficiency, On top of that isn't even the on the top performing melee dps i do not see any reason for additional nerf unless others class are changed in the process.Quote:
Originally Posted by ErzaScarlet77
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10-24-2017, 11:16 AMpopotaro
Stealth.....
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10-24-2017, 10:31 PMloreleidiangeloIt's the same reason BLMs are raging in the DPS subforum and WHMs are raging in the healer subforum - people seem to think that speedrun groups are indicative of the vast majority of the playerbase and feel bad when their job is raw throughput that works best for progression periods. (Though BLMs I admit aren't actually that great for prog, unlike WHMs - RDMs have the monopoly on god-tier progression usefulness.)Quote:
Originally Posted by Pence
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10-24-2017, 10:51 PMExiled_TonberryExcept even this isn't true. It's not like Monk or SAM is better in progression. Ninja still is.Quote:
Originally Posted by loreleidiangelo
Same with a BLM vs a RDM, and debatably, WHM vs AST/SCH.
Ninja is just the best at everything, it's actually rather ridiculous.
The biggest thing that stands out is there buffing power. Literally every buff in the game got nerfed, expect Trick Attack. This just seems weird, like SE is pampering Ninja specifically. -
10-24-2017, 11:01 PMNinjaTaru72Pretty sure there's many things they arnt the best at. Healing, tanking(this ain't ffxi), and I'm fairly certain my Sam can out dps a ninQuote:
Originally Posted by Exiled_Tonberry
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10-24-2017, 11:08 PMLeglibe
Not really sure what you mean. Ninja has been nerfed 3 times since Stormblood.
First the Gust Slash nerf, then the Bhavacakra shift to magic damage (a nerf), then the Doton bug fix.
Also ninja has the lowest personal dps of the melee right now, so saying it has dps on par with the selfish dps is flat out wrong. -
10-24-2017, 11:17 PMExiled_TonberryIgnoring the comments about NIN not being good at tanking or healing (of course not?), they're best at everything as far as DPS go. They're fast in attack speed, fast as Monks, they actually move faster as in walking and running, their buffs are simple and non punishing, their utility and DPS combined equals, or maybe even surpasses that of Monk and SAM, nearly no positionals.Quote:
Originally Posted by NinjaTaru72
Really it's the perfect melee DPS, no competition. -
10-24-2017, 11:45 PMOscura
If the Dreadwyrm, Alexander and the master of the void himself couldn't defeat trick attack, then how could the balance team possibly stand up to it?
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10-24-2017, 11:59 PMIlanExcept that they deal less personal dmg then the others? Thats why they don't get nerfed further at the moment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Exiled_Tonberry
I really wonder how long it will take until people understand how this works. -
10-25-2017, 12:06 AMErzaScarlet77
im watching 3 different streams of coil ultimate rn and the NIN is the top dps in all of them.
"support" dps amirite guys?? lol "less personal dps" right guys? -
10-25-2017, 12:18 AMNeophyte
https://www.fflogs.com/statistics/17/#aggregate=amount
NIN is lowest melee on average as well as on max damage.
You should back your theory with several thousand parses and not with 3 streams.Quote:
Originally Posted by ErzaScarlet77
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10-25-2017, 12:21 AMULokiReally good nin playerQuote:
im watching 3 different streams of coil ultimate rn and the NIN is the top dps in all of them.
"support" dps amirite guys?? lol "less personal dps" right guys?
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10-25-2017, 12:41 AMExiled_TonberryPersonal damage+raid damage> pure personal damageQuote:
Originally Posted by Ilan
This has been true since forever. NIN is still king when you add in their contribution to the entire raid. -
10-25-2017, 12:45 AMOshirigami
Escaped as in... got nerfed but still top pick?
Because Ninja does something very needed that no other job does.
Ninja is its own unique role even though it says "DPS". Similar to Bard. -
10-25-2017, 05:27 AMOMega_ARcaneI'm a ninja, and I know we don't have as much as others with positional, but its not close to "none" we have aero edge where if you execute from the back its much more powerful then just doing a simple 1-2-3 combo, we have armor crush where when executed from the flank is also more powerful, we have ration which when executed from flank is also more powerful, and the grail: trick attack NEEDS to be executed from the back or a big part of the efficiency thing that everyone is talking about is traded for about 2-10k damage instead of the debuff. Just some food for thought :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Exiled_Tonberry
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10-25-2017, 05:32 AMZojhaNinjas actually have more positionals than Samurai: Aeolian Edge/Armor Crush/Trick Attack vs Kasha/Gekko. DRG has Heavy Thrust, Chaos Thrust, Wheeling Thrust and Fang&Claw if I recall correctly, that's barely 1 more.Quote:
Originally Posted by OMega_ARcane
Monk stands out with 6 positionals, Bootshine, True Strike, Demolish, Dragon Kick, Twin Fang and Snap Punch. But Monk is monk, we don't talk about monk. -
10-25-2017, 05:46 AMOMega_ARcaneYep my thoughts as well ^_^, can't really speak for all other jobs since I haven't played them though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zojha
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10-25-2017, 05:51 AMWelsper59When the hell did NIN gain the title of "support" DPS? Stop butchering terms to the point of useless application.Quote:
Originally Posted by ErzaScarlet77
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10-25-2017, 06:18 AMSendohJinbecause of Smoke Screen and Shadewalker, it's the only non-tank job that can manage aggro for anyone besides themselves.Quote:
Originally Posted by Welsper59
Trick Attack is powerful but those two are what makes NIN really different from the other melees. -
10-25-2017, 11:04 PMTaranTatsuuchiThey can really assist with initial aggro management, allowing tanks to open with more dps during the initial burst phase.Quote:
Originally Posted by SendohJin