Would A Rifle Job Ever Be Possible?

I ask this knowing that MCH weapons are effectively longarm pistols/carbines/muskets, and having seen many rifles just lying around in game.

Granted, I would expect a new tank/healer job before another dps, but it's clear rifles exist in the world of XIV. Musketeer/Magitek Marksman someday perhaps?

Maybe, but since the next few Jobs will probably ( I hope) be a healer and tank, I can not see them carrying a rifle. Who knows maybe we might get a Ranger job who has a rifle.

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Originally Posted by Laerune

but since the next few Jobs will probably ( I hope) be a healer and tank, I can not see them carrying a rifle. Who knows maybe we might get a Ranger job who has a rifle.

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Chemist

/10char

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

Chemist

/10char

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I wonder how they will Chemist to the game, since Alchemist is basicly Chemist without the combat.

Oh no I didn't mean a rifle-using tank or healer. I figured it'd be a DPS, but I'm not against the idea either. If Overwatch can successfully pull off a sniper-healer/support, anything's possible, lol.

I fully expect a new healer or tank job next because we're definitely not lacking for DPS jobs.

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Originally Posted by Laerune

I wonder how they will Chemist to the game, since Alchemist is basicly Chemist without the combat.

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Technically, if not for the firearms usage, Machinists would be crafters.

What about two guns?

https://www.destructoid.com//ul/user...najpg-620x.jpg

http://img.bhs4.com/0f/2/0f23848d51d...1d9d_large.jpg

Recall Sazh guns could merge in to rifles.

http://images.wikia.com/finalfantasy...7s_Pistols.jpg

Of course never rule out good old Barrett.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-RmXHHZGawD...d%2BBarret.jpg

I get this feeling dual wielding might be in future MCH plans. Possibly a stance or set skills that produce a second weapon. Would be awesome if they made use of the unused off-hand slot, but as they've never done that with Monk or Ninja, I highly doubt they'd do it for Machinist.

That aside, I would seriously love to see a rifle job down the line :)

Until Limsa Lominsa gets renovated, I would not rule out a gunner/twin-gunner type of job.

https://i.imgur.com/1t9hOv3.jpg

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Originally Posted by Laerune

I wonder how they will Chemist to the game, since Alchemist is basicly Chemist without the combat.

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Not to turn this into a discussion about chemist, but quite easily, call it "salve maker" and have the story tie in with the Alchemist guild, an offshoot art that focuses on combat (and could even use the alchemist guild to teach you some of the alchemy in your potions)

Ooh! I hope so, so I could pretend to be this guy!
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...vie-poster.jpg

I would love a rifleman type job. It would give them an excuse to shift MCH's current sprint over to it and give them a sprint that works for pistols. Yes I'm that petty :P

Pettiness aside, I'd love for a rifleman type job and a dual gunner type job. I'm not biased. At all. You are.

I'm not against the idea but I don't think it'll ever happen. Too many of the MCH skins resemble a rifle and given how focused each class is around the weapon I have trouble seeing how SE could easily distinguish between MCH weapon skins and a Rifleman. But maybe a 2hand rifle designed around sniper rifles instead of long pistols/short barrel rifles?

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Originally Posted by Alien_Gamer

I'm not against the idea but I don't think it'll ever happen. Too many of the MCH skins resemble a rifle and given how focused each class is around the weapon I have trouble seeing how SE could easily distinguish between MCH weapon skins and a Rifleman. But maybe a 2hand rifle designed around sniper rifles instead of long pistols/short barrel rifles?

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It wouldn't be the first time they changed around a bunch of models to suit the new job. Most of NIN's leveling weapons were originally paladin's.

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

Chemist

/10char

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Please no. The healer scene is in shambles, just give us a tank and DPS

Rifle for stand off damage dealing and fixing bayonet for melee combat . Closing using a charge maybe.
With a defensive stance , changing to a protection/tank class.
Damage dealt increasing if being close to another rifle-person.
Something like that maybe ?
I am aware that they said they will never make a dual/forked class again , but a damage dealer / tank class like the way arcanist went might help with tank shortages ?

I'm hoping that once we finally get to Garlemald or run into a Garlean character that defects (like Nero) that they share their tech and we get some kind of Gun blade class finally that works in the same way as a RDM except its a melee/ranged physical DPS.

If anything SE has been known to hint at new classes with characters. (I.e. Thancred using ninja-like skills and Alise being a RDM before actually being a RDM) I suspect Frodola to be some kind of new class eventually.

There is a sort of dual wielding rifle job already in the game but only NPCs can use it. During story battles, the Limsa General Merlwyb Bloefhiswyn will use her dual firearm style which I believe her job is Musketeer!

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/...20130407183049

Well I guess she doesn't have a rifle now that I look more closely. But this was to be the quintessential gun job in FFXIV but it got swapped to machinist because I believe they wanted to add the turret concept. If you look back to old 1.0 videos, I've been told there used to be a Musketeer guild in Limsa. There still might be but if it's there, most of the identifying markers have been taken down.

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Originally Posted by Exiled_Tonberry

Please no. The healer scene is in shambles, just give us a tank and DPS

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I'd rather people who don't play DPS get some new job content, because I have also heard "the tank scene is in shambles" from WARs and DRKs, and at that rate we just get two more DPS again.

Swapping weapons between classes as someone mentioned has been done before as knives used to be PLD weapons until ROG/NIN was added and they paired them for the new job.

As for what jobs could make use of an actual 2 handed rifle. Ranger from FFXI comes to mind as one of their proficient weapons was a 2 handed rifle while Corsair got the more pistol like hexagun. FFTA2 has Fusilier though the game portrays most gun animations as pistols. It also had a job class of sniper that specialized in greatbows but could probably be adjusted to use a rifle easily for FFXIV. Though I think in terms of firearms from FFTA2 I'd probably be more interested in the 2 jobs using hand cannons Flintlock and Cannoneer.

It's like I said before they need to let mch branch off to musketeer (would be similar to sch/smn). Or make mch the class and musketeer the job.....
We all wanted a gun only job

Even Yoshida admitted that we don't like cyberpunk style classes in Final Fantasy. They probably realized this when mch was the least popular class of all.

So yeah I hope in 5.0 mch gets turned into class that evolves to Musketeer. This wouldn't be hard to do and we all love limsa lominsa, so why not?
Till sea swallows all!

If we ever see another physical ranged job I actually expect it to revolve around equipping a crossbow.

I would expect SE to give rifles/crossbows to MCH/BRD as secondary weapons or stances/buffs before expecting them to make entirely new classes for them. Less work and less inevitable complaints about homogenization.

I want a rifle job that shoots heals.

Tank and healer will probably be the two next jobs for 5.0 to balance all the existing jobs.

BTW, at the announcement of Heavensward I thought that the MCH will be a dual-gunner job. I was so hyped.
Finally I didn't play it often. Musketeer exists on FFXI and it's a dual-gunner job, so I hope it'll be introduce in the future. It'll be one of my main jobs for sure !

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Originally Posted by Kelesis

Finally I didn't play it often. Musketeer exists on FFXI and it's a dual-gunner job, so I hope it'll be introduce in the future. It'll be one of my main jobs for sure !

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Are... are you sure? FFXI has only ever had two* gun-wielding classes: Ranger and Corsair. Neither one of them have ever had the ability to dual-wield ranged weapons so far as I'm aware.

FFXIV, has shown a dual-wielding "Musketeer" in a roundabout way with Merlwyb and there's even the guild in Limsa, but as that's been there since 1.0 I wouldn't bank on SE adding Musketeer just to utilize it (not unless Musketeer were a class and branched into a job).



*No, we're not going to count everyone who could equip a ranged weapon or would otherwise need to have RNG or COR as their sub to access ranged weaponskills.

The idea of adding a tank, healer, and still adding a dps job is very possible since turning mch into musketeer wouldn't take much work. Musketeer would use the same shooting skills and none of the turret stuff, the turret stuff gets turned into dual wield shots or other things like that. The most work in classes probably comes from animations and having to create level 1 to level 70 weapons in every dungeon/primal. But all that's been created for mch already so the ONLY work they have to do is add some 5-7 musketeer skills to replace the turret ones. I'd love for Yoshida/devs to do an official forum poll asking us if we want mch to stay mch or to evolve as a new job into musketeer, from that they can justify it even more.

I mean they've done everything they could to mch and no one plays that outside of the 1%-3% of the population that clears savage content.

Why leave something at the bottom when you can put real work into it and turn it into something would really work better.
I know they wanted to give us a Cid-like job but no, we wanted a Maelstrom/Limsa job.

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Originally Posted by Ghastly

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The changes you are proposing wouldn't make MCH more viable. The reason its doesn't appear used as much is because the other job class it normally has to "compete" against in a party composition (BRD) has a much higher degree of support utility while offering similar damage output. The endgame meta isn't chosen by visual appeal or whether or not a job uses a "Pet" or not. Its chosen based on a value comparison from skills on a utility vs damage output stance to assign values to jobs. Additionally SE cant just boost MCH damage without taking consideration that it will cause players to not want to use caster jobs due to having an extremely high damage output that isn't limited by cast bars.

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Originally Posted by RitsukoSonoda

The changes you are proposing wouldn't make MCH more viable. The reason its doesn't appear used as much is because the other job class it normally has to "compete" against in a party composition (BRD) has a much higher degree of support utility while offering similar damage output. The endgame meta isn't chosen by visual appeal or whether or not a job uses a "Pet" or not. Its chosen based on a value comparison from skills on a utility vs damage output stance to assign values to jobs. Additionally SE cant just boost MCH damage without taking consideration that it will cause players to not want to use caster jobs due to having an extremely high damage output that isn't limited by cast bars.

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Oh but that's where all your raid utility argument goes out the window....
Really, mch was better than bard in most of HW and yet it was still less popular than bard

So the argument of aesthetics, class theme, and fun to play actually matters more than raid utility. Raid utility only matters to those doing savage content, which in all the data shown is barely up to 3% of the population.
Raid utility can be added to any class on the basis of just adding it for the sake of it

Look at warrior, its shake it off skill was changed to a raid utility skill just because and it's not a hard thing to add to any class. Losing turrets and its support when you make it a musketeer job doesn't mean that the musketeer can't have raid skill. It could summon barrels just like the last boss of Hullbreaker isle HM and when those barrels explode they could give enemies vulnerability. It could also have a treasure chest skill from the same boss which gives damage bonuses to whoever opens the chests

The things are there for musketeer.........it's just a matter of going for it.

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Originally Posted by Ghastly

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You can keep telling yourself that if it helps you sleep at night since you've convinced yourself this is why MCH isn't used as much as BRD and essentially refuse to listen to anything saying otherwise. MCH already have utility through their turret to inflict vulnerability however doesn't offer much beyond that outside of role skills that BRD has access to as well. MCH on its own is a fun job to play. However its outshined by other jobs which is something that generally happens on any game online or offline that utilize different characters or classes that occupy the same role or niche. Additionally if you are going to attempt claiming "data shows X%" how about posting us a source because despite being outshined I see MCH quite frequently even in end game/savage content. I've lvled both BRD and MCH. I find MCH more fun to play. However I end up using BRD more because it just does more.

Also using an NPC or boss in game to say the things are already there isn't an argument. The chests and the barrels are battle mechanics. Also NPCs frequently have access to skills a player will not which is evidenced frequently in the MSQ and job quests. Additionally some instances of NPC's having a weapon setup not available to players such as the dual guns pointed out earlier. Also rauhban dual wielded swords before and the ex pirate in the MCH quests that uses a 1 handed hatchet and a pistol.

If you want to focus on aesthetics far more players were asking for engineer from the FFT games as a gun user than there were for a musketeer or gun wielding pirate. So instead of crying they scrap a job because its not the one you wanted, figure out a way to work in the one you want without it just being a turret-less carbon copy of MCH.

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Originally Posted by RitsukoSonoda

MCH on its own is a fun job to play.

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That is subjective. Objectively, you can only measure whether something is "fun" or not by looking at how popular it is relative to its power (or more generally, relative to its reward, because the principle applies to content as well). If something is unpopular in spite of being powerful (or having lots of rewards), chances are it's not very fun. On the flipside, if something is popular in spite of not being powerful, it's safe to say it's fairly fun. And if something is popular and powerful, or unpopular and weak, it's not possible to tell whether the effect is caused by the power or the enjoyability.

As for musketeers or rifle jobs in general, I feel that MCH is pretty much intended to cover that. The guns tend to be on the longer side and the new sprint animation is specifically meant for longer guns (it looks VERY awkward with the Makai Mortar or even the gunblade series). I doubt they'd make a new one.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

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It is subjective though its a shared opinion of a majority of players I've spoken with in game that have actually played and lvled MCH to 70. There are a lot of thoughts on what could be tweaked slightly to make it better and more fluid but its not being abandoned by almost the entire player base because of playstyle and aesthetics like the other person is claiming it is.

Maybe this person just doesn't encounter many of them. Maybe this person's server just doesn't have many. However this person's claims to the causes of MCH being viewed as unpopular come off as fabricated data to cover up that they wanted a pirate themed gun user instead of an engineer based one.

As far as guns go there could easily be another gun user later that causes a split in guns to be rifles and pistols. 1handed swords and knives were both GLA/PLD weapons until SE added ROG/NIN and pulled all the knives from the GLA/PLD weapon list and replaced them with equivalent 1 handed swords. Something that might be warranted as the animations and gauss barrel have issues with the smaller guns currently in game. IMO I think MCH would be the pistol user in this case as the skill animations and attacks utilize the gun 1 handed which makes the run animation seem more out of place.

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Originally Posted by Laerune

I wonder how they will Chemist to the game, since Alchemist is basicly Chemist without the combat.

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Given how the devs are not very shy about creating a new job to the series (e.g. AST), it is possible for them to create a field medic or doctor of sorts. Utilizing Allag or possibly Garlean tech to heal and treat wounds, sort of thing. Lasers aren't exactly unknown to Eorzea and the concept of a healing beam/mist/whatever shouldn't be farfetched. It's not exactly the same as mixing chemicals and herbs together to create potions, but it could essentially be akin to the idea. Applying science to heal damage.

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Originally Posted by RitsukoSonoda

It is subjective though its a shared opinion of a majority of players I've spoken with in game that have actually played and lvled MCH to 70. There are a lot of thoughts on what could be tweaked slightly to make it better and more fluid but its not being abandoned by almost the entire player base because of playstyle and aesthetics like the other person is claiming it is.

Maybe this person just doesn't encounter many of them. Maybe this person's server just doesn't have many. However this person's claims to the causes of MCH being viewed as unpopular come off as fabricated data to cover up that they wanted a pirate themed gun user instead of an engineer based one.

As far as guns go there could easily be another gun user later that causes a split in guns to be rifles and pistols. 1handed swords and knives were both GLA/PLD weapons until SE added ROG/NIN and pulled all the knives from the GLA/PLD weapon list and replaced them with equivalent 1 handed swords. Something that might be warranted as the animations and gauss barrel have issues with the smaller guns currently in game. IMO I think MCH would be the pistol user in this case as the skill animations and attacks utilize the gun 1 handed which makes the run animation seem more out of place.

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At least I'm providing solutions


All you're doing is providing personal encounters instead of real data. Real data like the census the dev team conducts every year which shows machinist as the least popular class every year.

If it's not playstyle and aesthetics that is holding machinist down then what is it? It's not raid utility and class effectiveness. In HW they were better than bard and were used for some of their utility as well in the savage content. But outside of savage it wasn't used (according to the dev's official census). In general it's not even something to be disputed, logically it's visible that machinists are rare. Go into any alliance raid, raid, and hunts. You barely will see 1 here and there and could go days without seeing one completely.

But I put the question to you now, if it's not aesthetics and how fun it is to play to then what is it that keeps machinist unpopular? Again, mch was better than bard in HW yet more people played bard so your raid utility excuse holds no water.
Just because you think you're right and like mch doesn't mean that you're right.

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Originally Posted by Ghastly

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Then why haven't you posted the census you're supposedly getting your data from? Hmm? Should be easy since you are supposedly quoting a source. This is because I have seen numerous census listings and depending on the date and chart category you are looking at in them Job distribution on MCH ranges from 4%-14%

Also you aren't posting suggestions. The main part of your supposed suggestion is that because you wanted a pirate based gun user and didn't get one then everyone else must feel the same way and just changing this image will make the job popular. This is like saying burger king isn't as popular as mcdonalds because mcdonalds has a clown for a mascot.

There are numerous factors that get the job placed lower in meta than other jobs performing the same role and you've basically said none of it is a factor when it actually is. No matter what part of the game you are at a meta is going to exist because this game has multiple job classes performing the same function with a variation on tools to do it. Because of this certain jobs are going to end up used less than others. This isn't a flaw in the job design itself. This is just something that happens because job interaction synergy is extremely difficult if not impossible to accomplish. Utility, flexibility, and functionality. Additionally learning curve on the job require to play it well factor as well. However you are probably just going to ignore these factors as you have in the past because they don't support your opinion.

I'm also interested in why you feel MCH was far better than BRD in HW as BRD as I didn't find it to be this way and I played and leveled every job to cap and used them in end game. I see them regularly in 8 man raids. I see them regularly in 24 man raids. This is also from using both PF and DF. There were 7 of them in my alliance roulette I did on whm earlier today for exp. I see them frequently during hunts because they can usually stay out of range of annoying AoE's.

But feel free to assume what you want I really don't care. You have stated your opinion and the only reason I'd even bothered addressing it in the first place is because you attempted to push this opinion off as a fact quoting data without providing the actual sources and even then it would be using that data out of context as a census isn't going to explain why a job is being chosen or played more than another and also these census generally don't reflect players that play multiple jobs accurately. At best its a weak speculation on your part.

Chemist as healers with rifles would be awesome. I might even play heals if they make it.