Which would you recommend: Smn or Rdm?

Heya, I was just wondering which job would you guys recommend, Summoner or Red Mage?

Job you enjoy more.

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Originally Posted by Sunako

Job you enjoy more.

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And that's /thread.

Well.. RDM gets skills that raise 1 or both of two meters. Black magic gauge and White magic gauge. If you get the gauges high enough, you can spend them to use other moves. Its pretty fun imo. Like a warrior spending beast gauge to fell cleave sort of...

You get vercure, veraise, verholy and verflare and thats awesome.
In basic game play when you cast your quicker spells, every other cast triggers a free instacast, you can use the instacast to cast bigger spells and those spells have a chance of procing other big spells..Its interesting in my opinion.

I dont know much about summoner. I would recommend you try some potd as smn and rdm to at least get a little bit of an idea how they will work.

I'd say smthg lire this :
Progress / fight you don't know : RDM (quite easy yet efficient core cycle, several braise in a row). SMN has too many things to watch, add unknown mechanics to watch over and goodbye DPS
Logs runs / farm : SMN has better DPS. But can go RDM if you like it better / have a great compo

For now, I recommend RDM unless you don't mind being here at least every other major patch or so complaining about something.

Both have pros and cons, but personaly its all about the flavour of the class for me.

SMN:

- Has pets and can summon Bahamut.
- Leveling a SMN will auto-level a Scholar class.
- You cast magicks
- Dot based DPS
- Before 4.1 the class was crappy, according to SE its alot better now.

RDM:

- You cast Magicks, but also do some melee combo attacks.
- Easy gameplay
- You can ress and heal the group, which is handy when someone is dead or the healer needs some help.
- The Rapier looks very good (alot better then a book, imo)

I have only played for 1 day since 4.1 was released, so I can not say how both classes are right now. In 4.0, Summoner required alot more effort and was more punishing, then Red Mage. Red Mage is a fun class to play with and very easy to master.

As others have said, I'd suggest you try them both and see what you like more. Or at least give us more details about what kind of playstyle you're looking for.

If you are a player who likes a challenging class and have mad skills, play SMN.

If you'd prefer a class that is easier and more intuitive, RDM.

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Originally Posted by Singularity

Or at least give us more details about what kind of playstyle you're looking for.

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Well, that is a bit of a problem since I don't really know lol. On one hand, I've played Smn and in general the "Warlock" job for years so even now I still feel burnt out on the job, but on the other hand I hear Rdms are no longer wanted and are bad so I feel like I have to level Smn and go back to it. I know I don't play Smn optimally and keep forgetting to refresh dots on time, which lead to them falling off while on the other end, I know I can play Red Mage optimally since it's simple.

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Originally Posted by Renryuu

Well, that is a bit of a problem since I don't really know lol. On one hand, I've played Smn and in general the "Warlock" job for years so even now I still feel burnt out on the job, but on the other hand I hear Rdms are no longer wanted and are bad so I feel like I have to level Smn and go back to it. I know I don't play Smn optimally and keep forgetting to refresh dots on time, which lead to them falling off while on the other end, I know I can play Red Mage optimally since it's simple.

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Forget Meta, play the job you're good at.

I'll reassert again, if you want a challenge play SMN and if you want intuitive/straightforward, play RDM.

I guess I can at least get Smn up to 70 and see how I feel then before making a more permanent decision on which to play. Though I'd say I'd probably prefer Rdm since it is more straight forward and I'm still far better with it than Smn at the moment.

For me personally, SMN blows RDM out of the water in terms of play style. I find RDM incredible boring and I don't enjoy most of their spell animations either.

But, like people have stated, it's all about personal choice. My FC leader absolutely loves RDM and thinks it's a lot of fun, while I do not.

Well I do find Rdm a touch of fun, though at the same time I do kind of prefer a more traditional spellcaster so the melee portion of Red mage, while cool, does have me sometimes wishing I was playing something else that was more inline with a proper spell caster. With Smn, I do quite enjoy the pets and Ruin 3 & 4 are epic looking, I just feel like I'm doing a disservice to the job, perhaps I should just keep trying with it since it has been a long time since I last played Smn and I did find a sort of mini guide to read to help me learn how to go about playing it, so maybe I'll find renewed love for Smn now that I understand it a bit better, but I can't say at the moment lol.

As I see it we as a community can give you pros and cons or explain our experiences, but we can't tell you what to play as that is up to you. But, if you give it a try toy may find you enjoy it. The disservice is not being bad at it, but giving up learning to be good at it. You should only not play it if you don't enjoy it. Get both jobs to 70 and try them both out at their fullest potential. Then make your choice as at least you know what they are capable of.

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Originally Posted by NorthernLadMSP

I find RDM incredible boring and I don't enjoy most of their spell animations either.

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I feel the very same concerning RDM. Lackluster gameplay and spell animations. SMN (and BLM despite the fact it needs help) feels more satisfaying to play :D

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Originally Posted by Karshan

I'd say smthg lire this :
Progress / fight you don't know : RDM (quite easy yet efficient core cycle, several braise in a row). SMN has too many things to watch, add unknown mechanics to watch over and goodbye DPS
Logs runs / farm : SMN has better DPS. But can go RDM if you like it better / have a great compo

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This so much. If you prioritize/like to raid/dungeon progress then RDM until you're totally familiar with boss/fight mechanics. For optimal DPS, you need to time your SMN abilities according to fight mechanics, otherwise it's dps loss.

SMN carries the team harder. Both are pretty fun to me but if you want to be the carry DPS in your group, go SMN.

While RDM is king in prog due to speedy chain raises and an easily accessible kit, the damage ceiling on the class is really easy to hit but it's also really low. People either ditch the class because they're bored with it (Not as flashy as blm/smn, low-skill ceiling, etc.) or it doesn't provide the damage they want.

SMN, on the other hand, greatly rewards your knowledge of your class, the encounter you are in and other jobs' raid buff windows. So much, you'll probably out-DPS everyone else. It takes a bit to master but it is rewarding to play imo.

I'd also keep in mind that Red Mage is a very 'young' job. It hasn't had time to grow in complexity since the core is still developing while the other magic classes have had 2 expansions to grow in complexity. Plus if I were a developer, I'd be intentionally keeping Red Mage adjusted a bit lower than it might otherwise be. It's a lot easier to scale performance up and have it be seen as a buff, then to scale the performance down and have it be called a 'nerf'.
For me, I like the speed, utility, and freedom of the dual cast system and the fact that I'm not tied to aggressive use of long cooldown abilities or a pet (I'm not a pet class guy normally, personal preference). so for my style, the core of the Red Mage is particularly appealing, I'm sure over time the various rebalancing will move me around the lists as far as 'flavor of the month' goes, but I stopped worrying about that aspect of mmos a decade ago.

Go BLM. Those Fire IV's.

Ninja!.... jk I can't stand playing a ninja and I dunno why.

I enjoy playing both but if you want something a bit more complex I'd say summoner. Red mage is good for when you're doing progression as you can clutch raise everyone. If you have confidence in your group I'd say go summoner. (So glad I can shrink Bahamut now)

I like playing all three, but generally my approach goes like this:

Early into content, I play Red Mage. It's ease of play, and relative mobility means I can focus more on the fight than on my rotation, as well as I have the ability to Vercure myself and offer raises to help a team recover. I started my runs through Rabanastre on this job for that reason.

Once I'm comfortable with a fight, I'll start playing Summoner. It's still got a mobility, but not as much as Red Mage, and it's rotation is a bit more of a challenge to play. I do still have the ability to throw out raises if need be, so in the Rabanastre example, it's good once I know the fights, and the majority of people know them as well, but maybe we still need a little help.

Then once I've mastered a fight and the utility skills aren't as needed, I'll go with Black Mage. With it's basically turret status and lack of utility, it can be a bit harder to play, but the damage output is massive, and I personally enjoy the job a lot.

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Originally Posted by wereotter

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Is BLM that much higher in dps than SMN though? From what I've heard SMN is beating BLM quite a bit.

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Originally Posted by jackass1203

Is BLM that much higher in dps than SMN though? From what I've heard SMN is beating BLM quite a bit.

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For single target, I think BLM is still higher than SMN. Even if not, I personally enjoy BLM more than SMN, but would want to understand a fight really well before going in as that job in order to make sure I can put out the amount of damage I ought to for my role.

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Originally Posted by wereotter

For single target, I think BLM is still higher than SMN. Even if not, I personally enjoy BLM more than SMN, but would want to understand a fight really well before going in as that job in order to make sure I can put out the amount of damage I ought to for my role.

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SMN is king mage at the moment for DPS

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Originally Posted by ShaolinMike

SMN is king mage at the moment for DPS

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Not just dps king they even beat Rdms in mobility. Hard.
Actually since 4.1 we are the Astros of the mages. True.