So far the new 24 man..

Has put a bad taste in my mouth. It has nothing to do with the dungeon mechanics, theme, or bosses. It is overall great. The problem is the players I have so far encountered. They are impatient, easily discourage, and less understanding to players comprehending the fights. This was not a thing for me until Stormblood for the new 24 man. Usually the majority has stuck around until the boss was dead or it was indeed hopeless, but so far I have been kicked (learning mechanics and comprehended them during fight two.) for just trying to learn the fight and bad luck during certain times of the fight. I said "okay, no sweat. I am a tank and I will find groups without issue." Second group falls apart before I even get to them and 3rd group wipes on the first boss once and falls apart again. What is with players easily giving up for this expac all of a sudden?


Didn't even get my gauntlets on the first boss because my party kicked me before I could claim them. Idk... I am just going to stay away from the new 24 man for a couple of weeks until the chaos calms down.

I think people don't remember how these raids were cleared with few minutes left during the first week after release. I believe this raid is on the same level of difficulty than Weeping City of Mhach. I wouldn't say it's hard, but I won't say it's easy either. Objectively speaking, if I see lots of people having issues with it, it's because it's not *that easy*. It requires to pay attention to your environment, something that the game doesn't show too frequently with so many facerolleable boss fights in dungeons.

I got lucky for my clear, my group stuck it out and worked on learning the mechanics. We cleared it with 45 seconds left on the time limit, was awesome and fun.

I feel this is very mechanic intensive and the flood of jump scrolls that can't teach awareness is showing. But I agree that in a few weeks it might calm down.

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Originally Posted by Lilseph

I think people don't remember how these raids were cleared with few minutes left during the first week after release. I believe this raid is on the same level of difficulty than Weeping City of Mhach. I wouldn't say it's hard, but I won't say it's easy either. Objectively speaking, if I see lots of people having issues with it, it's because it's not *that easy*. It requires to pay attention to your environment, something that the game doesn't show too frequently with so many facerolleable boss fights in dungeons.

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Yeah, just breaking the first boss fight down you can easily understand what is going on. Kill the adds, off tank the adds away from the boss, stand in the safe spot for the AOE, get air from the bubbles. That is just doing it a second time.

I honestly don't understand the appeal but that's probably cause I never played Tactics. Gear looks awful and music is so so for me.
Fights are challenging but fair, EXCEPT that spinning cursor BS on the last boss. It's almost as bad as an RNG mechanic as you have very limited control on the direction it stops because of how fast it's spinning and really needs to either be toned down in speed or changed entirely because it's ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by Reaperking386

Didn't even get my gauntlets on the first boss because my party kicked me before I could claim them.

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I'm calling BS on this statement.
It's impossible to kick someone when there's loot being rolled on. More likely situation is you rolled on the gloves and left on your own before everyone rolled on them, assuming you'd already gotten them.

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Originally Posted by Reaperking386

Didn't even get my gauntlets on the first boss because my party kicked me before I could claim them. Idk... I am just going to stay away from the new 24 man for a couple of weeks until the chaos calms down.

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Someone is being dramatic. You can't initiated a vote dismiss while loot is being rolled for.

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Originally Posted by Pence

Someone is being dramatic. You can't initiated a vote dismiss while loot is being rolled for.

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Yeah, was just about to mention this bit. :X

I will say though, in the runs I've attempted, people do seem to be far more impatient for a new raid than they have been in the past. I didn't get to try until day 3, and there was already a ton of bickering between the alliances, and giving people grief for not knowing the fights. Normally that crap starts about a week later :p

Maybe the vote happened before the roll. I rolled and I was removed between the transition between the first boss death and on the way to the second boss.

Honestly speaking this is what happened for Dun Scaith and Weeping City. I wasn't here for Void Ark because I was moonlighting in SWTOR but I also clearly remember World of Darkness also being similar in that people were impatient and after two days demanded perfect precision from those they ran with, even if they themselves thought they could steam roll mechanics. Give it a week or two and the negativity will die down a little.

My impression is that the second boss is often the make-or-break point.

The second boss is punishing with harsh dps check and big moves that wipe out a good chunk of the alliance.

Once people make it through that boss, the next two feel so much easier that people just go back at it even if they wipe.

We did ask Yoshi P. for harder content... "Be careful for what you wish for." I look forward to the the little break until players are done trying to find the easy way out.

to be fair the raid is literally not even a week old. it will calm down in a few days

I'm really enjoying and have ran in-progress multiple times to try to help out on my healers. But I was also lucky enough to get my loot on my first run. I can definitely see how people who are going for something specific over and over would be frustrated. Overall I still think it's been going smoother than Dun Scaith did on launch.

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Originally Posted by Enla

I wasn't here for Void Ark

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Void Ark wasn't anywhere near as bad as release week Weeping City. The only problem areas were
-Not killing the knot thing in the vent room until the gas built up and killed everyone
-Lots of people not jumping on platforms when cu chulain pooped the floor
-Tanks fighting over aggro with echidna when she split apart because they all wanted to tank the main body instead of the snakes

Wipes were uncommon and I don't recall any vote abandons.

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Originally Posted by Reaperking386

We did ask Yoshi P. for harder content... "Be careful for what you wish for." I look forward to the the little break until players are done trying to find the easy way out.

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This isn't hard. It's just because you're on a NA datacentre you have a difficulty handicap because most NA players are terrible.

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Originally Posted by Silver-Strider

EXCEPT that spinning cursor BS on the last boss. It's almost as bad as an RNG mechanic as you have very limited control on the direction it stops because of how fast it's spinning and really needs to either be toned down in speed or changed entirely because it's ridiculous.

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Slowing it down would actually make it harder and more RNG.
just tap the button to slow it down.
if it slows down too much, then it can take "too long" for it to make a full cycle, and in that period of time ur gonna get hit by AoEs.
the current speed allows for u to lock it into place, and to an instant tap to move like 20 degrees, or let go for half a second to go the opposite direction.

as is, i have no trouble picking the direction i need to go with this method, but if it moved any slower, i would be getting hit by the aoes i just barely make it out of.

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Originally Posted by Pence

Someone is being dramatic. You can't initiated a vote dismiss while loot is being rolled for.

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The vote can happen right as a boss dies, as some ppl will have it open and rdy, while someone else goes and pops the chest.

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Originally Posted by Reaperking386

We did ask Yoshi P. for harder content... "Be careful for what you wish for." I look forward to the the little break until players are done trying to find the easy way out.

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Harder than our usual easy content is actually good for the community, it will help people improve their skill level and overall gameplay.

On topic,
New 24-man raid is always like this during the first two weeks. Until guides are out and people either give up or get better.
There is always that person who gives up after 1 try {/goodbye}.

Generally, it will give a bad impression to first-timers during this period. They tend to think that is always a chaos, and won't bother doing it again.

Went in the moment it went live with a premade (yes I mean a full 24man premade) of competent raiders all on or having cleared D4 savage using discord to communicate as we learned and figured out the mechanics. Still took us around 80 minutes to clear and figure it all out.

Although our raid dps was ridiculous so each boss went down really fast as long as we survived the various one shot mechanics. I will say I didn’t expect such delicate mechanics so early. We had a fairly rough go of it with our organized premade but at least we were having fun. I feel bad for people that will have to pug it.

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Originally Posted by Reaperking386

Has put a bad taste in my mouth. It has nothing to do with the dungeon mechanics, theme, or bosses. It is overall great. The problem is the players I have so far encountered. They are impatient, easily discourage, and less understanding to players comprehending the fights. This was not a thing for me until Stormblood for the new 24 man. Usually the majorityhas stuck around until the boss was dead or it was indeed hopeless, but so far I have been kicked (learning mechanics and comprehended them during fight two.) for just trying to learn the fight and bad luck during certain times of the fight. I said "okay, no sweat. I am a tank and I will find groups without issue." Second group falls apart before I even get to them and 3rd group wipes on the first boss once and falls apart again. What is with players easily giving up for this expac all of a sudden?


Didn't even get my gauntlets on the first boss because my party kicked me before I could claim them. Idk... I am just going to stay away from the new 24 man for a couple of weeks until the chaos calms down.

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Na, it is just misremembering. Weeping on release was the worst as far as premature ragequits and vote abandon. Even level 50 had the unneeded vote abandon spam when the group could pass it, just had a wipe from a mistakes. Plus I think people have problems adjusting to being at level for content because they are used to outgearing it. I had a co healer I asked several times they need to be more aware with when to heal and not have me carry. People rage quit on the second boss where we vote abandoned. That healer returned in a different party where we wiped on the first boss and that person rage quit. Cleared the run np after.

Problem with that healer was very simple, they spent too much time DPS because they are used to outgearing content (fairy can do most of the healing in those cases) This guy did not manage stacks well ( I AM SOOO GLAD I CAN SEE BUFFS AGAIN so i can get clues what they are doing and when) and was not even using Chain Stratagem. They would just use Physick mainly and dps, so glad they left and did not get a free carry, hope it help them learn.

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Originally Posted by Silver-Strider

I honestly don't understand the appeal but that's probably cause I never played Tactics. Gear looks awful and music is so so for me.
Fights are challenging but fair, EXCEPT that spinning cursor BS on the last boss. It's almost as bad as an RNG mechanic as you have very limited control on the direction it stops because of how fast it's spinning and really needs to either be toned down in speed or changed entirely because it's ridiculous.

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I had no issues with it tbh, you just get used to the speed and press and if it is wrong quickly lift finger and press again ( hard to explain) but it is defiantly manageable. Then again I am pretty aware in general and good at predicting things.

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Originally Posted by Texa

Void Ark wasn't anywhere near as bad as release week Weeping City. The only problem areas were
-Not killing the knot thing in the vent room until the gas built up and killed everyone
-Lots of people not jumping on platforms when cu chulain pooped the floor
-Tanks fighting over aggro with echidna when she split apart because they all wanted to tank the main body instead of the snakes

Wipes were uncommon and I don't recall any vote abandons.

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Except all 3 parts will pick a tank and stick with that tank, you can't rip aggro on any of them because they target 1 tank of each alliance. I never saw tanks fighting over Echidna because you would immediately see the snakes slamming the whole group too.
I wasn't around for Weeping City and Dun Scaith releases.

I've enjoyed the hell out of Rabanastre so far. I've gotten stuck with a few mouthbreathers that couldn't mechanic their way out of a wet paper bag, but mostly the groups I've had were stellar or learned fast with very few rage quits. I hope future 24-mans are tuned the same way.

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Originally Posted by VitalSuit

Except all 3 parts will pick a tank and stick with that tank, you can't rip aggro on any of them because they target 1 tank of each alliance

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I know, and I'd seen tanks try to take echidna anyways and run all the way to the other side of the room and get the tethers going until we wiped.

I said I saw it, I didn't say it was a good idea or possible.

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Originally Posted by Silver-Strider

I'm calling BS on this statement.
It's impossible to kick someone when there's loot being rolled on. More likely situation is you rolled on the gloves and left on your own before everyone rolled on them, assuming you'd already gotten them.

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If you initiate a votekick on someone in the few seconds between the boss dying and the chest being opened, it doesn't cancel the vote to dismiss, which means someone had their party window open and the initiate votekick ready to go as the boss went down.

Some of the people who open the chests the split second the boss dies know this and do so to try to dissuade those kinds of kicks

The main problem is that once you've cleared it, you have your coin thing to upgrade your gear. The ilvl330 inside is awful looking (meaning no glamour runs for most ppl), and moreover not upgradable. Since everyone can clear at least o2s (meaning every 340 left pieces besides chest and pants), the only thing you need is to finish the 24 man once to have the last two 340 tomestones pieces. After that, you have finished your gear their is not much else to do. If it's not going right, it's a waste of time for the ppl who are here only for the token at the end.

I'm not the kind to give up don't get me wrong, but clearly I'm not doing the 24 raid for gear or glamour for sure, I take the first thing dropping if their is one, or I don't bother going in an other time. And if you don't clear it the reset day, you are more than likely to have bad alliances. Which is sad too, but it's because it's not very usefull to go in multiple times.

I agree about the no motivation to run it. I used to farm the heck out of Weeping for the caster and healer sets because they looked FINE. There is nothing aesthetically pleasing about these sets for me so after I get my weekly item I'll only go in there if friends need help with their weekly runs.

They looked fine and the chest was a valid alternative if you couldn't get your hands on A8s

So far the raid has been amazing for me . It's not easy at all and you do need some sort of coordination with the team. The raid it self is challenging which is great!

The only negative is the gear. I did expect more from Matsuno. But it is what it is. Just hope next tier is either same difficulty or even harder.

Please DO NOT NERF.

Mhm, I personally was lucky with my first group, I seemed to be the only derp that didn't know the mechanics already and we only wiped to the last boss once. Most of the mechanics seemed easy enough to learn, though intuitively, I'd have tried to STAND on the dark circles, rather than interact them, which felt weird.
The last boss was... a bit of a mess. It helped when I was told that blue timer means Do and purple means Don't, but then you also have Lying in the mix, which creates a double negation that just makes me want to flip the finger at the boss, because you're essentially arguing semantics with the boss. And then he flips me the index finger with that cursor >_>

It's definitely a one-and-done deal for me and I'm glad there's not much of a carrot to make me put up with it either.

I only did this once. To me it seemed easier than the previous few 24 person raids, since our alliance cleared on first timer on the patch day (don't think we had any more than 1 wipe on some bosses). I was mostly disappointed with the lack of difficulty (I miss Weeping City and Ozma!), but the fights didn't seem very interesting either. Will have to see how I'll feel about it after reset. :)

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Originally Posted by heynowjose

to be fair the raid is literally not even a week old. it will calm down in a few days

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About "calm down", I just hope it doesn't degrade to the "read a guide or gtfo" attitude. This ain't a savage but you know, haters gonna hate.

I honestly love the new dungeon but going in with certain people makes it rather miserable.
Last week when we finally did clear i had such a huge headache, lol

Personally I love the waterway segment even thought nothing really happens, I kinda wish they'll evolve this concept as it makes interesting the exploring part of the place

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Originally Posted by Claire_Pendragon

Slowing it down would actually make it harder and more RNG.
just tap the button to slow it down.
if it slows down too much, then it can take "too long" for it to make a full cycle, and in that period of time ur gonna get hit by AoEs.
the current speed allows for u to lock it into place, and to an instant tap to move like 20 degrees, or let go for half a second to go the opposite direction.

as is, i have no trouble picking the direction i need to go with this method, but if it moved any slower, i would be getting hit by the aoes i just barely make it out of.

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I still feel the mechanic needs to be changed because it's really not a fair mechanic. Having it inverse your controls would have been fine but this spinning wheel crap is really annoying as I've seen countless people, even after learning that mechanic, die because of how random it is which should never be the case in any game.

The raid is fun and did it with my FC 1 hour after release. People were already crying about wipes. The funny part they die the most and after they left , it went faster and cleared it.

It's a problem with some people. They think they are great... and trying to destroy the mood.

I agree with you. The first two bosses are really make or break for the rest of the raid. We had people DAY ONE and hour after patch went live quitting out. I'm sorry, you expected a cakewalk??

It's ridiculous, but it's always amazing how much smoother everything goes once they quit. :D perhaps its simply a blessing in disguise.

Beating the raid day 1 with 5 minutes left was a great experience. I got lucky that people in my alliance were not toxic (other than one person being a little toxic) and the only person I remember leaving was an FC mate who had to go because of RL problems. Patience goes a long way.

I got yelled at for asking for a moment to put A/B/C marks down and a pull time /shrug

Not surprising, we wiped pretty fast, and then once I managed to put the markers down, people started to get the hang of it better. I don't mind wiping so long as it feels like people are learning. If people just keep trying to 'zerg'/brute force it and ignore anything else, then it's just a waste of everyone's time.

Mmm yeah. As a Tank I've just been watching a nightmare unfold before me and I can't do a thing about it because players are bad and should feel bad for being bad.

Not only is my drop subject to RNG but it would seen the poor player ecosystem also limits a clear to RNG as well. Brilliant!

I did about 15 runs of it this week, for practice and trying to get the rolls/cards, and I still am not a fan of it. It's a very bad raid in terms of design. You have two hard fights, then the developers suddenly realized they made the two opening fights too hard, so we have two very easy trash fights, one boss who was obviously downtuned to compensate for the first two bosses (the ice slaves do more damage and are bigger threats than his chariot move), one stretch of doing nothing at all, and a last boss who is distinctive by having annoying mechanics. It has the least amount of boss fights of any 24 man, yet even if it goes well it takes 60 minutes at launch.

I'm not really keen on this trend started with menagerie and continued with this, of long slightly harder casual fights that try to be cool and make ppl git gud, but tend to dump the lion's share of responsibility on the healers and take forever.