Beastmaster: A proposal at utilizing a pet system for the Tank role

Beastmaster is a class which has come up from time to time as a player most wanted. Typically, it is requested as a tank, mostly due to the fact that Healers have Scholar and DPS have Summoner. For the most part, these proposals are short or flawed because no one has quite figured out how to utilize a pet class for tanking and making it unique. The purpose of this proposal is to flesh out the details on how a unique and fun Beastmaster class can be utilized under the constrains of the FFXIV system.

The role of a Tank: The purpose of a Tank must cohere to these three rules.

1. Must be able to hold aggro.
2. Sustainable damage mitigation for heavy hitting attacks
3. Ability to actively move the enemies across the arena.

Due to the nature of these three rules, all three Tank classes currently in the game are melee ranged classes. Enemies stand close to the tank, therefore making a ranged Tank difficult. So, why not make Beastmaster have a pet like Titan-egi?

The problems with Titan: If Titan, or a pet like Titan, was able to effectively hold aggro for an extended period of time it would break the “Endgame.” The difficulty of Trials and Raids comes from memorizing fight mechanics and having each role carry out their respective duties.

When Titan dies the Tank is still essentially not dead. The other Tank will provoke the boss, while the Beastmaster re-summons their tank pet. Then the tank pet provokes once again, soaking up any damage and ignoring all mechanics that any “normal” tank would need to pay attention to. Adding a longer cooldown to the summon action would not fix the problem, because one mistake on the Beastmaster's part would result in a most likely party wipe. Having a healer be able to rez the pet will only trivialize the class and fight further.

Having a pet actively tank a boss will lead to sloppy movements around the field. Imagine having to tell your pet to rotate the boss, or move it across the field multiple times. It sounds pretty tedious doesn't it? Of course, the player could personally take control of the boss for a time, but if the Player is able to hold aggro for a length of time that essentially means we have three tanks in an endgame raid.

The Beastmaster must adhere to the three rules of tanking, while being both unique and viable.

The role of Beastmaster: A Beastmaster is one who works in unison with their beast. Player control is divided evenly between character and beast. They must essentially be one unit as to adhere to the mechanics of the game.

1. Use pets as Tank Stances. This would work more like PLD/WAR as opposed to DRK, as having two pets out at once would be troublesome. The “Tank” pet would grant benefits such as additional enmity, a permanent boost to defensive stats like def/hp, and a strength penalty so long as the pet is out. The “Off Tank Pet” grants a boost to offensive stats like atk/crit, and could have the downside of more TP usage per attack/slower TP regen.

2. All pet actions are executed off the global cooldown, or as weaves. The “Tank” pet will have actions (let's call them beast actions) that grant debuffs on the enemy to help with the Beastmaster's strength penalty, as well as defensive cooldowns and HP recovery for the Beastmaster. These cooldowns could have downsides such as 5% defense down on the pet and 20% up on the Beastmaster, and sacrifice 10% of the pet's HP for a 1200 potency cure on the Beastmaster. This adds a level of management outside of the “rotation” based system, and makes Tanking a bit more hands-on.

The “Off Tank Pet” will have weaves that directly do more damage, add DoTs onto the enemies, and have abilities to aid in TP management.

Both Pets will have a signature attack. (Wind Blade/Crimson Cyclone.)

3. The new Meter System will be used to add diversity to the Beastmaster and really make it stand out from SMN/SCH. The “Feral Meter” will build up every time a beast action or non-aggro combo action is used. (Storm's Eye/Soul Eater).

Once the Feral Meter is at least 50%, the Beastmaster can unleash the pet for a devastatingly strong attack. Secondary effects could include AoE damage, buffs/debuffs, and boosted aggro.

When the Feral Meter hits 100% the Pet will become Feral and assume control. Essentially, the Player Character is directly replaced with their pet. They can move it around the arena, and the pet's signature move will become powered up. During the Feral phase, the Feral Meter will constantly be draining, so be quick and get out all those powerful hits! Any Role Actions that the Beastmaster had equipped will be accessible by the pet in this phase. Therefore provoke will be ready. Feral can be canceled at any time to regain control of the Beastmaster.

- Both of these actions are in reference to how Beastmaster was played in Final Fantasy V

Equipment and additional actions: On top of being a completely unique and hands-on tank, Beastmaster can also bring some party utility.

1. Using it's unique Giant War Horn, it clobbers it enemies into submission, essentially using it as a club. Being a blunt weapon, any blunt debuffs put onto an enemy will directly aid Monk with their DPS.

2. Like bard with their harps, the Beastmaster rallies their pets by blowing on their horn. This leaves room for adding any additional party utility should the horn also be able to rally another adventurer.

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So no pick hearts and furry white armor?

Can you tame a pet with a bonus against magic and one against physical? I'd like the axe/shield combo from F11.

I would so l love to see beastmaster in game, as a tank especially.

Ah, I never played XI, but the axe and shield sounds pretty sweet. In the end the amount of pets would be totally up to the developers, but I feel like giving one pet class more pets then the other classes would be unfair. (Still waiting on those Pheonix and Sephirot Egis, please.)

Would be difficult to develop.

For one, healers would be expected to heal the pet, otherwise the system would be broken, therefore the pet would have to show up in the party list.


I think it would be better if the pets were supplemental to the beastmaster. Meaning they would provide shielding, mitigation buffs to the beastmaster.
One of the most difficult thing to do in this game is balance tank jobs. Also how strong will the beastmaster be? If his pet dies how long can he take a punch before the pet comes back to take the damage.

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Originally Posted by Derio

Would be difficult to develop.

For one, healers would be expected to heal the pet, otherwise the system would be broken, therefore the pet would have to show up in the party list.


I think it would be better if the pets were supplemental to the beastmaster. Meaning they would provide shielding, mitigation buffs to the beastmaster.
One of the most difficult thing to do in this game is balance tank jobs. Also how strong will the beastmaster be? If his pet dies how long can he take a punch before the pet comes back to take the damage.

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That is exactly what they're doing until you hit the transformation phase. The tank will last exactly how long any other tank will last if they took off shield oath/grit/deliverance. During the transformation phase, the PC is just replaced with the pet. Healing works exactly the same as healing any other pet, unless they're in transformation phase, in which case just scroll down the party list.

Thanks, but no thanks; pet classes are cancer. Not trying to be a dick, but SE has not handled them well.

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Originally Posted by Argyle_Darkheart

Thanks, but no thanks; pet classes are cancer. Not trying to be a dick, but SE has not handled them well.

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Does not give you a reason to just shoot down the idea. There are only so many ways to keep new tank/healer/dd's fresh til they have to come up with new concepts that are not going to feel like a rehash.

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Originally Posted by Vladmiere

Does not give you a reason to just shoot down the idea.

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Um, what? I can shoot down an idea for whatever reason I please (not that I have any authority, mind), and the reason I provided is of critical importance. If SE can't make pet classes well, then they shouldn't make pet classes. If you think I'm wrong, then say so.

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There are only so many ways to keep new tank/healer/dd's fresh til they have to come up with new concepts that are not going to feel like a rehash.

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Variety is not a good excuse for bad design. I would much rather not see Beastmaster at all than to see it done poorly.

No thanks if there's going to be a new tank class I'd rather it be Blue Mage. As for a pet class the next one I'd rather see is Puppet Master.

BLU/BST/PUP..

BST is the only one I can imagine wearing Fending, personally.

'Pet' jobs is just a UI facade at the rate SE is going.

It's just how they implement, and seeing the progress on ARC I think by 5.o they'll have it figured out.

BLU doesn't necessarily have to be forced to use Fending gear. They can easily just have their tank stance increase their health and defense to be up to par with the other tanks. And the Puppet Master comment was meant as for DPS not Tank. If they were to add another pet class I'd rather them add Puppet Master instead of Beast Master.

I been of the might set the puppetmaster make the better tank job the beastmaster. i think that ffxiv should have melee pet dps job as it has healer pet job and dps spellercaster
pet job

with blue mage could be more focus dodge focus tank dodge use more int skills

I honestly think instead of it being a pet in the traditional SE and FFXIV sense it'll be more of a direct extentsion of the player. Add just a little range to the PUP's attacks and instead of a weapon, it's the Puppet. More of a direct control via strings very similar to how Kankuro controoled his puppets in Naruto. So your actions and rotations are your pets. No petbar or anything.

i could see you unload your debuff on your puppet or mammets

Lore wise it would make the most sense for BLU to be a tank but if the player outcry for RDM and SAM is proof that if the community makes enough of a fuss about it then SE will listen, then yes it is possible to have a pet class as a tank. I personally want to see PUP as a viable tank simply due to the fact that you can augment your defensive cds by having your pet stack with you or tank another enemy.

For example:

Tactical Switch - Increase defense by 15% for you and your puppet. Duration 10 secs. Recast 120 secs.

With the example above you can now have your puppet stack with you to get a combined 30% defense increase for a tank buster or have it attack a separate enemy. This could in theory mean that this tank job can take two separate tank busters simultaneously. PUP would revolve around using your puppet to help augment your defensive cooldowns similar to how WAR revolves around Inner Beast and DRK revolves around Dark Arts. The puppet would be much simpler to control and would have all its movement tied to attack and would primarily stay with you unless you instigate a "command". Examples of your puppets commands include:

Valoredge - Have your puppet continuously attack a target. Range: 3y. Potency: 150. Increased enmity. Execute again to return puppet to your side. Recast 2.5.
Sharpshooter - Have your puppet attack a target. Range: 15y. Potency: 120. Increased enmity. Recast 2.5.

Valoredge has your puppet run up to an enmity and solo tank it in the spot where the enemy is while Sharpshooter acts as your ranged attack similar to Tomahwak or Shield lob. Your MP would act as the puppet's life bar that slowly depletes when taking damage. It's gauge would be a simple bar that fills up when using actions and when you execute commands to your pet it depletes a portion of it. However you could easily swap BST for PUP but the point is that I want a tank that is more than just press a button > reduce incoming damage. It's one of the reasons I main WAR and DRK simply due to the flexibility of how their cds work and how you can augment it.

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Originally Posted by Argyle_Darkheart

Um, what? I can shoot down an idea for whatever reason I please (not that I have any authority, mind), and the reason I provided is of critical importance. If SE can't make pet classes well, then they shouldn't make pet classes. If you think I'm wrong, then say so.



Variety is not a good excuse for bad design. I would much rather not see Beastmaster at all than to see it done poorly.

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Uhm what is wrong with the summoner? It is currently the dps to be in high-end progression as a caster. Only RDM comes close. Seems more of an identity crisis as its only flaw over the implementation of the job. Minus a stint in 2.0 days having to actually smack things with the book the summoner is in a good spot. They can easily implement pet jobs with the feel of a pet aesthetically but the spells and pet abilities coming from the user directly but having a cast animation show the spell or ability coming from a pet.

And yes if you try to "shoot down" an idea then you need a proper reason. This thread was created with the purpose of a person trying to share their idea on an upcoming possible job design and to say SE has implemented pet jobs poorly does not really give us many contexts as to why they have implemented the job poorly. Poor AI? Easy for the pet to be killed? The scholar has been a strong job since its inception and minus a window from 4.0-4.1, it has been the defacto goto healer in raids and all areas of content in the game minus pvp which was dominated by Astros til recently.

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Originally Posted by Vladmiere

Uhm what is wrong with the summoner? It is currently the dps to be in high-end progression as a caster.

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Depends how you define "wrong." How powerful SMN is, or isn't, isn't relevant in the context of this conversation when its power has little to do with it being a pet class. You could make any class powerful through sheer numbers, it doesn't necessarily indicate anything about how the class is designed or played.

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They can easily implement pet jobs with the feel of a pet aesthetically but the spells and pet abilities coming from the user directly but having a cast animation show the spell or ability coming from a pet.

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That's...not a pet class. Not in the ways that matter, anyway. Is MCH a pet class? Because that's actually more involved than what you're describing.

If a Beastmaster tank's pet isn't tanking, directly or indirectly, then the concept is a non-starter, as far as I'm concerned. What is even the point? Aesthetics? Seriously? You honestly think that will adequately capture the fantasy of Beastmaster, let alone as a tank?

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And yes if you try to "shoot down" an idea then you need a proper reason.

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SE being poor at designing pet classes is about as "proper" as reasons get for shooting down the idea of SE designing another pet class.

Stop saying I don't have a reason when what you're trying to say is that you're not convinced.

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to say SE has implemented pet jobs poorly does not really give us many contexts as to why they have implemented the job poorly. Poor AI? Easy for the pet to be killed?

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There are two main issues, as I see it, both of which would likely see exaggerated effects on a tank.

The first is pet movement. It's a chore, to put it nicely. On one occasion, I had to tank Aiatar with Topaz Carbuncle early into the game's life cycle, and it wasn't fun. Was it doable? Yes, but that fight is simple, and even that took far more focus than it deserved. It was not fun; it was annoying.

The second is ability queuing. Ever had Contagion not execute when you wanted it to (or at all)? Well, what if instead of Contagion it was Provoke, Vengeance, or Hallowed Ground? It would be a disaster. Not only is it important as a tank for your abilities to execute in time, it's often important for them to execute at a precise time. There are means to play around this (with Steady, for example), but would anyone want to? I wouldn't.

There are some other issues as well, such as stacking the pet for group soaks, targeting the pet for healing, and how to handle pet deaths.

The bottom line is this: if the pet is managing any of the tanking responsibilities, whether that's enmity generation, enemy control, or cooldown usage, then it will be a mess. All of those call for more pet responsiveness than we currently have.

The only way I see a Beastmaster tank "working" is if the Beastmaster tanks and the pet is only responsible for tanking non-essentials, such as DPS and, maybe, utility. But at that point you might as well just make Beastmaster a melee pet DPS instead.

It has to fit and function within XIV archetypes.

Rook/Bishop, Earthly Star, any DoT/HoT/DR+ bubble, Sword Oath, Selene/Eos CD restrictions (hell Defiance/Deliverance), and Demi Bahumut are all mechanics that could pass as pet functions, if a kit was built to feature them.

Absolutely, a BST tank (or any pet tank) couldn't function like XI's BST, nor could it function like SMN+Titan-Egi.

But to expect a 'pet job' only meeting that label if it has that same level of explicit pet control management ...

... is like saying pre-Stormblood that the only way RDM would truly be a RDM is if it roll as a DoM-Healer or a DoM-Caster.


Sorry for repeat, but for me it comes down to just the gearing choice. BST to me makes sense in Fending, BLU makes sense in Scouting (but that's all just my opinion!). We're due for a DPS in Scouting/Maiming.

Everything else about a 'pet kit' is subject to dev discretion.

i see puppetmaster fit more role of tank special with pet kit.

I think there is a need to have dps pet job and pet tank job would balance

i also see blue mage function as tank mage aswell.

I think people would love to tamed alot of beasts in ffxiv they beautiful mobs. wonderful possible pets, I personal would rather like see beastmaster be melee/ranger dps pet jobs. they so many difference type of beast that can be tamed. I suggest use Hullbreaker the beastmaster quest hubs as a instance. puppetmaster I see it more fit role of tanking because people get attach to they beast like pets. a mammet is plain it easy to not get attach to the pet

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Originally Posted by Savagelf

... a mammet is plain it easy to not get attach to the pet

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I have that same opinion of PUP's pets too.

But that leads me to envisioning PUP into less a 'pet class' and more a traps/snares/bubbles/totems class; using a mashup of skills similar to the current ones I listed previously, but all simultaneously. Like, a HoT bubble being a 'Deploy Mammet X' and a DoT bubble being 'Deploy Mammet Y.' But unlike MCH/SCH, PUP is unique in it can deploy like ~3 mammets at one time, letting them choose between healing/damage/utility (whatever role PUP goes to).

And the mammet that appears with each skill is randomly chosen from your minion collection, just for fun.

As I said I can see them implementing a pet tank class through use of aesthetics that give the illusion of a pet class but actually just be a spell of sorts that shows a monster being summoned but just directly being a spell or ability from the tank. The final boss of Kagone castle uses a dog that catches gil but yet you cannot really target it. Something that can have a non combative/targetable pet but still shows attack animations at the main animation of the tank. That would be a fun way to approach the beastmaster as a tank. The dog could actually be just a dot but show the pet animation while the dot ticks down.

pet are more fun if they permanently and more fun if they fight along side i hate how much we rely on glamour for everything. that beast was use by Yuna. I think a beastmaster the more aim to being dps with ability to permantly tame pets is better. that one dps is split between the pet and beastmaster.

Please dont ruin a tank with a pet

I rather Baci have beastmaster be melee/ medium range dps with an importants in split the dps between the pet and player. as for tank i think puppetmaster would the best it could range tank which ability shift any debuff to mammet

I honestly believe the next tank class is going to be BLU. I think PUP and BST are going to end up being a dps class. As for the BLU not making send in using fending gear they don't have to. The same way Dex used to be only for Bards when NIN came out they changed dex to affect them for melee they can do the same with BLU. There's nothing to suggest that every tank that comes out is forced to use Fending gear.

I think one could make tank that doesn't use fending gear mind you. tank gear doesn't away have plate armor they could be light armor of fending decide for more tank that wear lighter armor of fending for more mage like tanks. beastmaster if use a whip would be dex basic weapon. for example they could make avoidance tank gear which what blue mage could use. light armor of dodge for example.

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Originally Posted by Baci

Please dont ruin a tank with a pet

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I more worried if they ruin a tank without a pet. *cough* 2.0-2.1 WAR, 3.0-3.55 PLD, 4.0-4.1 WAR

Pet on tank class eww no thank you.it be hinder more than anything else esp pet ai & ping latency stuff to command pet.

I say let the current tanks summon temporary pets for a dps burst. All their mounts currently have mob animations.

Hard pass and I like both tanking and using summoner.

There are other classes better suited to the role. Given how Square has handled pet classes so far, the last thing I'd want is a Pet AI tanking/or managing said pet, or being part of the tank role.

I think if they use the squardon AI it be fine

what weapon would puppetmaster use

beastmaster has a whip or if they go by ffxi small axes and sheild

A morning star would be a compromise between an axe and a whip and I'm partial to that.

https://i.imgur.com/XHLYuS0.jpg

though morning star mabe a good for puppetmaster

why a whip is good ideal it give leatherworker a weapon they craft which help them out they only job that doesn't have a weapon they craft becide cularianist which beastmaster also help by give them ability craft beastmaster pets favorite foods

many of my friend think beastmaster won't be done i really hope the devs will the squardonry show promise on improve the AI of npc

I think a pet class could potentially work for tank if the pet supports your tanking rather than being the tank.

Your pets would effectively be your stances, "titan" (or w/e) would be your tank stance, "ravana" (or w/e) would be your dps stance.

If they're in range of you they could be pulsing buffs to increase the relevant stats to make the stances work and while they're active certain actions have different functions.
For example, the "titan" pet could have some kind of shadewalker effect up constantly on you, sending all of the aggro it generates towards you.

Then, I'd expect that they'd have two GCDs(player and pet) as their main mechanic, effectively requiring them to weave together their attacks with their pets. Could be difficult, but it could enable weaving of different combos together (damage and aggro generation, for example). In theory you could just set the pet to "sic" but the class would be designed with the expectation that you're fully controlling the pet.

They'd likely want some method of helping the healers keep their pet alive, maybe a trait that causes a portion of incoming healing to be shared with the pet, maybe another that replicates healer buffs onto it?

Also imagining some form of "merge" ability where you and the pet become one for a certain amount of time (helping with tank busters/positioning mechanics), which could enhance the buffs received from them and you could have some actions which end it early. Like you fire ravana at the enemy for a decent amount of damage.

I guess I just imaging that a tank pet class is either going to be on the front lines with it's pet or it's going to be on the front lines and the pet is going to be at the rear.

If they do make a pet for BST like titan egi, its going to need a healer to keep it alive along with the tank, kinda like titan egi does and thats even after I summon egi with tank accs on and tank food.

Healers in this game are just not expected to heal pets and SE would need to put pets on the party list to make it easier for healers to heal pets because otherwise the tank will have to babysit the pet to keep it alive, just like we Summoners have to but with only Sustain and low MND healing abilities it would be a mess.

I love BST and despise tanking but if SE added BST as a tank then it would be time for "sassy tank" to return.

If Beastmaster were ever implemented, I see the pet functioning similar to how Trainer worked in FFX-2. You issue "orders" in the same manner another job would use combos. They would be essentially the same actions, just animated differently.