Why did SE break tank>healer synergy?

While doing ifrit tonight, the rediculous scenario came to pass, that the skin + boon so called fix will ultimately kill the tank. here is a run down of what happened (this might get long).

we did 3 runs total. run 1 was rough, everyone was still getting their bearings and comfortable with positioning. needless to say we wiped, not long after HF. the good news is this run 0 aegis boon heals got eaten by skin.

run 2 is where it started. the run was going fine, heals, skins, boons healing, wonderful. we get to glowy and skins start coming at the wrong time. after hf i'm putting boon on cd asap. you never know when both healers will get cracks. i do try to watch but its hard to know what another human being is going to decide to do at a given time. a total of 8 boon heals got eaten by skin (yes i did actually count every single 1) for a total of 720x8=5760 healing lost. it was rough, i did go red hp 2x throughout the fight, but we managed to pull it off.

run 3 is where disaster struck. started out much like run 2, clean at the start and gradually got worse. we actually had to recover from 2 near wipes (me 1-2 healers still up, and 1 DD, enough to keep cracks from spawning on me the tank). it looked like a win after those recoveries, even tho we only had about 13mins left ifrit was under the 20% mark. then it happened. i was around 3/4 hp which isn't scary, fully buffed i sit at almost 4400hp. i'm assuming the healer had skin on the way, so follow me here. ifrit gets his burst dmg off on me, usually consists of sear and then breathe, this pushed me pretty low since together they can do almost 1800. i saw it coming and his animation told me it was breath, so i hit boon for his swipe that usually follows. what happened after is skin was put on me, again i assume healer had precasted trying to get it off for breath idk for sure. he did his swipe as expected but boon did 0 healing due to skin, cracks on both heals and sear chewed up what was left of skin. healers are now out of range and resonance is on cd. i have nothing left and am stuck trying to solo heal myself while i'm now in the red hp zone. this ultimately lead to a wipe because healers couldn't bring my hp back up in time, and breath finished me.

maybe it was bad choices, sure i understand that. people freak, perhaps 1 needs to pay attention to buffs and what the tank is doing. but 1 error, 1 bad judgmental call could ruin a run, something that needs to be fix'd/changed.

perhaps a patch will fix this, or further expand on it, prioritizing buffs so that when skin is up you can't block, or with boon up the dmg will go through regardless of skin being up so that boon heals. or maybe jobs will bring something else to help fill the holes.

tl:dr why was skin + boon "fix" implemented if it breaks synergy and can ultimately kill the tank?

best of luck to the gla communitee, i refuse to pay for something that is essentially a broke mechanic. see you all once jobs come out

No. The reason you are dying is because your healers are casting stoneskin on you mid fight which is stupid, not because of a "bug" that you can avoid yourself. You only need ONE healer (cnj) and he should never cast stoneskin on the tank unless it is triple jump phase and he has have mp to spare, otherwise he is better off just standing still and regening mp that can be used for a cura which casts faster and heals more (1050 cura practically naked versus a 730ish stoneskin) although stoneskin technically isn't a heal, more like a shield.

You are also making very poor choices in when you use aegis boon, don't just use it on cool down because you can't time the next tp attack, save it for when you see cracks on healers. Ifrit won't hit you for a good 5-6 seconds during p3 cracks and the only damage you will take is one sear tic for 350ish and a melee hit afterwards for a grand total of 1000-1050ish damage which can be negated by a second wind and cure, an aegis boon and cure or a featherfoot dodge. Yes, aegis boon and featherfoot are not 100% blocked or dodged next attack but you shouldn't be dying to something that a mrd with no self heals at all main tanked for all of 1.19 because gladiator sucked horribly. The changes to gla and cnj for the tank+healer combo seems to be a rather nice buff IF you use your abilities properly.

Sanguine rite is so overpowered for this fight and I don't see you mention it once, it is literally infinite MP on ifrit, you can just spam cures on yourself all day for hate and never have to worry about dying. Gladiator is so strong right now as a tank it's just insane to say this "bug" which isn't even a "bug" is the main reason you failed on ifrit. You just need better healers, although one is fine, and you need to manage your cool downs better.

P.S. You aren't a tank unless you sanguine rite, featherfoot, cure, second wind. Also if one of your healers die you can resonance raise him with sanguine rite on no matter where he died while the other healer is still healing you instead of you dying to no heals.

the healer casting stoneskin on me is purely his/her judgmental call, an error as you call it. However I am not putting aegis boon on cd every chance i get, that's an assumption on your part. an experienced tank can look at the ws animation ifrit is doing and know what is about to happen, as well as an experienced tank also knows ifrit will always do 2 swipes between ws's, 3 if its a short animation ws. Sanguine rights is in no way shape or form a must have, nor is it overpowered unless cast by a thm. it does have its uses if your mp is low, but i did not state my mp was low, only that cure potency is not enough to sustain me while everything else is on cd, remember this is an on-going fight in which cd's are used regularly to mitigate dmg.

1 cannot predict what another human being is going to do/about to do, especially if i can't see this person because ifrit is taking up my screen for the most part. and while rite>resonance>raise is good in a clutch situation, the fact still remains that buffs need to be prioritized, or there will forever be a clash.

An experienced tank wouldn't depend on Boon for healing, because there are better options like Treach said.

Again let me reiterate here since we wish to argue the finer details of this scenario. Second Wind was on cd, Sentinel was on cd, Rampart was on cd, Feather Foot was on cd, Aegis Boon was put on cd but healed for 0, every known tanking cd was on cd, as i stated before this is an on-going fight where cd's are used to mitigate dmg. and there is a point in the fight, i believe after HF, where sear hits in rapid succession, more than once in a 5-6sec window. Boon is the biggest contributor to tank self-healing for a gla. the mechanic is flawed, clunky, and needs to be prioritized.

Doubt your Cure was on cd.

no it wasn't, but in my second post i stated that cure potency is not enough to sustain me, which ultimately lead to me dying to a breath because healers could not get my hp up enough to live through it. gla cure is barely enough to live through a sear, figure in a swipe and you're losing ground. needless to say i died before i could attempt to self heal through most of ifrit's attacks

Cures shouldn't sustain you, they should be used when you're a bad situation when you're running out of options. One Cure might not be as powerfull as your Boon, but two are and you can keep casting them every 5 sec until you have better options. An experienced tank, such as yourself, who knows when Ifrit is going to do what ability, should be easily able to know ahead of time when to throw Cures and not be totally dependant on a block that might or might not heal.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tman

after hf i'm putting boon on cd asap.

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You say you aren't using things on CD, but how can all of those be on CD? Featherfoot is really the only tank CD that you want to use on CD for extra MP and mitagation, aegis boon should be used often as well but only if you are below 50% so that the next cura doesn't take you to full HP alone and you should be using shield bash for extra hate/aggro when it procs.

Sanguine Rite is a must have if you ever get to that level of play where you are fighting tooth and nail for aggro/hate on ifrit so your thms/dps can burn it down with no worries, you are also a fool if you under value the amount of curing you can do to yourself and others with so much MP. You can easily be right beneath the second healer, if you use two, from just cure + sanguine rite alone.

Aegis boon heal being absorbed by stoneskin doesn't kill tanks or synergy, bad player choices do. Like I said earlier, it's more your healers fault for casting stoneskin instead of actual heals, but blaming a mechanic that works exactly as it reads in the description and then throwing in the usual "I quit x until x does what I want" line when said "x" is function rather well is childish.

All you are relying on from the healers is cura and cure, don't use an excuse saying you can't predict what they are going to do. If they play badly, replace them with someone else. Don't blame a mechanic that is now working as intended instead of the actual reason for defeat.

You can't predict what the healers are going to do, but you can tell them to stop casting stoneskin on you and just straight heal + protect.

/thread

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

You can't predict what the healers are going to do, but you can tell them to stop casting stoneskin on you and just straight heal + protect.

/thread

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^ This. SS is neither mp or cast time effecient when compared to even cross classed cures. SS should only be cast if both a) the target's hp is already topped up ( or the majority of the target group if aoe) and b) there is no risk of the terget taking damage while casting. In Ifrit that means only triple dash casts and only then if the tank is healed up.

My mages just SS themselves to prevent knockback now since it is strong enough to do it alone, just so they don't have to move as much.

Cure may not "sustain" you, as you put it, but if you're not using Cure constantly, you're not playing Paladin, which you are...

Boon is something you pop when the CNJ have other things to deal with, like raising others. But even, no especially if your HP isn't full, Cure. Second wind at almost every cd, use necrogenesis and thunder, and bloodbath>Riot Blade. Using sanguine rite/featherfoot/outmaneuver, you will NOT run out of mp. Cure is a great enmity gen. It saves the CNJ from having to wait until your are 1000+ hp down to cure, which is a potentially lifesaving maneuver.

Boon, like you said, is not as useful as it could be if it were say... OP like sanguine rite is. MP = HP. Deal with it.