RDM: Should I ever hardcast VerAero and VerThunder

Ever since I played RDM, I always avoid hardcasting VerAero and VerThunder. I only use them through duelcast, after casting Jolt II or Impact (or after the procs). But recently, I've been finding that some players have hardcasted both these spells. Should I ever hardcast them or just keep doing what I've been doing

Also, it's common knowledge among RDMs that you need at least 80 Black & White mana to use the full enhanced melee combo. But I prefer waiting, until I have them both at 100. Doing this gives me access to both VerFlare and VerHoly, after Enhanced Redoublement. How effective is this? I appreciate any responses.

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Originally Posted by REPROBEAN_CHILD

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You only hardcast one of the long casts at the 5 second mark of the pull timer that the tank initiates (if they use one). Otherwise, no. Don't do it.

Waiting til 100/100 is a big dps loss for multiple reasons. First, you don't actually want them balanced. You want one slightly lower so you get a 100% chance of activating "ready" status. Secondly. the longer you wait on your burst, the longer it takes to get to that burst a second time.

You should only start hardcasting Verthunder/Veraero pre-pull for your opener. Example: 10 second countdown— Acceleration @ 10 seconds > start casting Verthunder/Veraero at 5 seconds so that it lands when the tank pulls. Otherwise, during combat, don’t hardcast them.

For mana, once you get access to both Verflare and Verholy, you will always want your mana levels to be slightly off, not 100/100, so that you can get a guaranteed Verstone/Verfire proc by using the appropriate Verflare/Verholy at the end of your Enchanted Redoublement. You don’t even need your mana to be off by large amounts, mine are usually only off by a couple points when I rush in for my melee combo. You could have them at 80/81 and still be fine for getting a Verfire/Verstone proc if you use the appropriate Verflare/Verholy.

There are two cases in which you hardcast Verthunder/Veraero:

1. When the boss is invulnerable but still targetable, but will cease to be invuln at the end of your cast. An example is in Praetorium Ultima, where Ultima Weapon is effectively invulnerable until the floor glows for the first time.
2. Prior to actually engaging the boss.

In addition, you should also be using Quickcast Veraero/Verthunder before considering using Impact, before considering using Jolt II.
And if the boss is invulnerable AND untargetable, the go-to spell is Vercure, as it will also proc a Doublecast that you can use immediately once the boss reappears.

Verflare and Verholy work best with *unbalanced* mana. It is not necessarily the case that 80/82 is always the best to start melee combo - depending on boss mechanics, on when the next Trick Attack window is coming, etc, you may want to delay this slightly, but try to avoid ever going to 100.

There's only really one circumstance you should push to 100/100 and it's only when Manafication is about to recharge and you've passed the breakpoint for using it above 50/49 which is 60/60, although perhaps more in the interest of getting Manafication back on cooldown I'd probably say 70/70. Anyway so if you're in that situation what you want to do is have at least one of the Ready the procs for either element once you reach 100/100. Pop embolden (If available), then do your combo as normal and use the finisher you don't have the Ready proc for. You should be 41/20 at this point, next you're going to use your Ready proc and the same color slow spell which you are lower on which will end you at 41/40. Then use Manafication and repeat.

Aside from the above, never try to get to 100/100 since every mana point not generated is DPS lost since it sets back your next melee combo by as many GCD's as you spent casting at cap.

Delaying your burst, unless you are sitting on a cooldown, has no impact on your overall DPS as your gauge is consumed by a flat amount and not fully. I usually get close to 100 if I need to delay due to mechanic (heavy AOE in melee, add to dispatch quickly) or If I want to double deep two melee combos into a single embolden. However I don't play RDM often and I'm far to be one of the best timing ones, I'm just playing it really instinctively.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEU6tVlf9sM&t=52s
I was using smn on savage exdeath but it was too many buttons so I lvled rdm and gave it a try. At first my dps was really low we weren't killing him before enrage. After watching this video it gave me some ideas and now I bring rdm to neo exdeath. We cleared last week. I even got the idea to equip swift cast from this video. It sounds dumb at first but it's for when you need to move and still dmg when your off GCDs aren't rdy. In certain fights where the boss goes off screen I use manafication when I get 40/40 so I can get in my melee combo before he jumps off screen. In Ex deaths cases I can use my combo right after he does dual cast blizzard and by the time he leaves the screen I will have my mana rdy for when he comes back.

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Originally Posted by REPROBEAN_CHILD

until I have them both at 100. Doing this gives me access to both VerFlare and VerHoly, after Enhanced Redoublement. How effective is this? I appreciate any responses.

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I may be missing something but as far as I know you always get access to both Verflare and Verholy after Enhanced Redoublement. O_o

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Originally Posted by SpiritMuse

I may be missing something but as far as I know you always get access to both Verflare and Verholy after Enhanced Redoublement. O_o

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I think it means more that neither one has an advantage over the other at that point?

Something that people tend to forget about, is that sometimes in an attempt to fish out more mana, you also have ready status up on the lower mana.
to which its fine to use the holy/flare of the opposite, as u can still have a 20% chance to get the ready on that too.
(obviously there's a point in which its too high, and doing it will unbalance you as well.)

You do not need to be at 100/100 but do not do like many Red Mages i see and start a mellee combo on a single target at like 40... Your finisher is where the damage is at this people so do not realize it.
As others have said hardcasting is for pre-pulls

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Originally Posted by REPROBEAN_CHILD

Should I ever hardcast them or just keep doing what I've been doing

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The only time hardcasting them is optimal is when losing GCDs doesn't matter. 99.9% of the time this is 5 seconds before the pull. Keep doing what you've been doing, with that slight change.

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Originally Posted by REPROBEAN_CHILD

I prefer waiting, until I have them both at 100. Doing this gives me access to both VerFlare and VerHoly, after Enhanced Redoublement. How effective is this?

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Not effective as only one can be cast and you lose the guaranteed Verfire/Verstone ready buff, as well as any additional mana over 100, which over the course of the fight can add up to a lost melee combo. You want to cast it as soon as possible after breaking 80/80, preferably with unequal values for the ready buff.

I'd like to do Titan Extreme/thordan ex min ilvl one day.
So if that roulette could bring us anywhere...

It'd be great cause it's allowing us to have some challenge with old content.
No need to developp new things, so it doesn't cost that much to do.

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Originally Posted by KDSilver

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Not to be that guy but what does this have to with what we're talking about?

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Originally Posted by magnanimousCynic

Not to be that guy but what does this have to with what we're talking about?

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He meant to post it in Minimum Ilevel roulette suggestion. No one corrected him, because its a common mistake and people probably thought hed edit it out eventually.

I only do it during the countdown before battle.