Enochian

Hi!
In regular dungeons/fights, enochian and lvl iv spells take 3 slots (slots being rare, it gets annoying), but are always used seperately in a specific sequence. In the Feast, that problem was solved by merging all 3 in one slot where enochian is only available if inactive, fire iv and blizzard iv available if enochian active. Could we use the same macro outside the Feast plz?

There is more than enough space for all of your skills,role actions, potions, and food on the hotbars. I'm not sure why, space should be an issue.

trying to fit attacks in one hotbar for quick access.

Edit : "Slots being rare", I mean there are not a lot of slots per hotbar with a controller...

You will always need more than 1 hotbar, even if you consolidated those chain skills you'd still need 2 hotbars before you got to 70. Best to get double hot bar use on muscle memory earlier rather than later.

Idk if you are on pc or ps4 but either way all of your abilities for blm will fit pretty well, if anything make sure your layout is comfortable for you. I've seen huds where skills are all over the place

If a minimalistic UI is your goal, create other hotbars, set skills to them, memorize the hotkeys and hide them from the UI interface. If you press that hotkey you'll still use the skill despite not being able to see the hotbar

EDIT: Just noticed OP meant controller, though what I said can still apply for K+M users with similar goals. Play with the expanded settings, such as Holding LT and RT (and vice versa) or double tapping RT/LT. Controller has many options for all the skills, don't try to limit yourself because of how many skills there are

Well, a minimalistic UI is my goal, but I know that the improvement is already done in the Feast. What would it be to have the same improvement outside of it?

You have don't have all of the toolkit in pvp so your options are limited there. In pve however you may need to make changes or switch to a different rotation depending on the situation. Not so much for blm but other dps jobs are more versatile. I do agree that things like blizzard 1 and 3 should switch depending on the lvl sync though. I play on ps4 I and the w cross hotbar works well, I can log in and show you my blm hud

But with enochian, there is no limitation by using all 3 in one slots, they are all used seperately... If enochian is inactive, you can't use fire iv nor blizzard iv. If enochian is active, you don't need to refresh it. If astral fire and enochian are active, you can't use blizzard iv and if umbral ice is active, you can't use fire iv...

I did a macro for it, but it's just laggy, this is why I'd like to have the "The Feast macro" :

Enochian IV
/macroicon "Enochian" --> (for cooldown, but useful only if Enochian inactive)
/merror off
/ac "Fire IV"
/ac "Blizzard IV"
/ac "Enochian"

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Originally Posted by Tsubaki75

You have don't have all of the toolkit in pvp so your options are limited there. In pve however you may need to make changes or switch to a different rotation depending on the situation.

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Fire IV requires AF, Blizzard IV requires UI. You will never have to choose one or the other.

Warrior got a revamp with 4.0, with Inner Beast changing to Fell Cleave automatically when you enter dps stance, and back when you enter tank stance (the other stance dependent skills do the same).

combat macros do not queue skills the only ones you should use are for "targeted" skills like freeze or aetherial manapulation

here is my hud atm bear in mind i'm still working to 70 on this job

http://i67.tinypic.com/dmvfac.jpg

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Originally Posted by Tsubaki75

combat macros do not queue skills

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I'm not trying to queue skills, only fire iv or blizzard iv is available at a time, depending if it's on AF or UI. I would just want to disable enochian if active.

I get that, my point was that you will absolutely need 2 hotbars even if this is done, and your full rotations for both single target and for aoe fit on 1 hotbar with the situational skills on the second

atm I am using only 1 hotbar and I think I could keep it that way even when reaching lvl 70. Knowing my own playstyle, I managed to make useful macros that allows me to minimalize the UI.

Edit : 1 hotbar for regular fights, but I got another hotbar for ally buffs, such as apocastasis.

Edit 2 : And wether or not I need 2 hotbars, the point stays the same. It is possible to enhance the UI to make it more minimalistic and simple by combining the 3 spells to only 1 slot.

it's ineffective to do so. I run WHM on a Controller on PC, i use 2 "bars" ie: Cross and expanded. Macros create lag in your skills, which makes it so that you have less output.

I'm not saying this to be mean: but you're hindering yourself and if you DF randomly, you're very likely to be kicked just because of this. As it has been said "Playstyle" is a valid reason for kicking.

People are trying to show you that it is possible to actually be functional without a lot of bars showing, but you should never scrimp on your combat abilities/spells/skills/etc.

A controller can access 48 buttons without having to ever do a "hard" crossbar switch. Using macros introduces too much room for screwups with skills not firing as desired.

Itov's completely correct. Enochian, F4, and B4 should be on the same button just like in pvp. Or, at least, that should be an option somewhere.

I recently redid my controls and while I can certainly fit all my stuff into 1234QERFZXCV+Alt/Ctrl as is, there are a few button combos more annoying to reach than others and I'd certainly appreciate the added space.

I've found that macroing them in priority has helped cut down on hotbar consumption. I do it like this
/ac fire 4 /ac blizzard 4
/ac fire 3 /ac blizzard 3

that a way when enochain is up you cast your perspective spell 4 and when you switch or start up you cast your spell 3. I did a similar thing with rdm as well. made my life so much easier. though be careful sometimes (all be it rarely) lag can cause you to cast a spell 3 when you want to cast spell 4. though the pro's out weigh the cons in my opinion and this almost never happens.

Never ever EVER macro skills unless it's something like DRK salted earth because it always has a half second lag so you essentially lose 1 attack every 10 seconds. If you really need space, just put your AOE rotation(fire 2, Thunder 4, flare) on a back hotbar since you never actually need Aoe when you need single target. And remove blizzard 1 entirely bc you'll literally never need it.

Also I find it kinda funny you complain about lack of space for BLM, when BLM has one of the lowest skill counts of any class.

I also support increasing hotbar space through redundant skill consolidation for every other class, but to my knowledge no other class has such an obvious and instant home run as three related job actions all of which are effectively or literally mutually exclusive with each other.

If, for instance, Inner Beast and Fell Cleave were on separate buttons, I would support them being merged into one button instead of responding "well I'm sure warriors have at least one hotbar slot free so it's fine."

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Originally Posted by Ferrinus

I also support increasing hotbar space through redundant skill consolidation for every other class, but to my knowledge no other class has such an obvious and instant home run as three related job actions all of which are effectively or literally mutually exclusive with each other.

If, for instance, Inner Beast and Fell Cleave were on separate buttons, I would support them being merged into one button instead of responding "well I'm sure warriors have at least one hotbar slot free so it's fine."

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Finally! Exactly what I was meaning. I totally agree with you! It's about constructive criticism.

EDIT : And minimalistic UI

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ferrinus

I also support increasing hotbar space through redundant skill consolidation for every other class, but to my knowledge no other class has such an obvious and instant home run as three related job actions all of which are effectively or literally mutually exclusive with each other.

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They have done it on the 2 new jobs already.

SAM's Iaijutsu - automatically changed to 3 diff skills depending on how many zens you have, but listed as 4 separate skills in job action. If you try to macro "Iaijutsu" and put it on the hotbar, you will notice the macro will have skill updated too. It's already built-in.

Likewise for all of RDM's enhanced melee skills vs. the normal version.

If they have done those already, and they have also done similar things for other jobs in PvP... don't see why it cannot be moved to PvE as well, that would be a true QoL change.

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Originally Posted by Snowelfie

If they have done those already, and they have also done similar things for other jobs in PvP... don't see why it cannot be moved to PvE as well, that would be a true QoL change.

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Part of it comes down to "weight". This is a gameplay concept so it's difficult to quantify, but I will try.

Weight is the idea that any particular action in a game has impact behind it. Using Paladin as an example, there's a level where there's a significant amount of weight added with a new ability. Level 26, Rage of Halone.

This new ability is your first combo chain finisher. It is your strongest, flashiest ability thus far, and you can easily see and -feel- the impact that comes from properly using it. (The enmity bar, the damage, the flashy animation). It is deserving of its separate button it requires. Rage of Halone doesn't lose this impact to 50. It arguably maintains its position as 'most impactful weaponskill' for paladins until Royal Authority. Goring Blade is flashy, and even though it does more damage and has a suitable animation, you never truly feel the full impact. (DoTs tend to act like that, and despite the fairly strong hit, Halone still hits harder upfront and maintains the Enmity impact)

Royal Authority however hits significantly harder than Halone and arguably has the better animation. It certainly captures the name in motion, but the three weapon skills do not overlap in purpose. Halone is still your threat gauge, RA is your bomber DX, and Goring blade is your old reliable mare. None of these abilities feel obsolete to the point where their 'weight' isn't felt (And Halone arguably still maintains its weight solely due to the absurd Threat. Halone might be used sparingly, but it makes an impact when it is.)

The faster, frantic, much more reactive focus of PVP means the weight in this scenario isn't in the abilities or the mechanics, but in the conflict with the other players. It is why PVE's system balanced to PVP felt so wrong on a fundamental level, by maintaining the basic build up and rotations utilized in PVE while supplemented with PVP actions, but PVE's system was not meant for a highly mobile enemy force. Thus the bells and whistles get stripped down, and the focus of PVP becomes more about movement, target priority, and choice ability use, while basic spells and weaponskills are streamlined into 'mash buttons'. It doesn't matter if the 'weight' of these actions are removed, because the 'weight' comes from the conflict itself.

In the scripted, controlled PVE encounters, (Mostly Non-Savage), that isn't the case. Which is why the weapon skills still take separate buttons, why certain abilities aren't two-for-one (Leylines, Between the Lines). The 'separate key' for each ability adds to its weight, and as silly as it might sound, that's not a bad thing. However, there are some examples where this should really be cleaned up.

Speaking as a Black Mage, Enochian, Fire, and Blizzard don't require this, but any 'upgrade' that might occur moving forward will. (Fire IV elevating to Firaga or something like that). BTL / Leylines could use it, but otherwise the Black Mage's kit is suitably divided that very few things will require it.

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

snip.

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It seemed to me that you took it to the wrong direction.

You tried to explain your "weight" example with skills that can be used/swapped almost freely. We are talking about spells/skills that are standalone and when one is available for use, the rest are not.

The "PvP" example was only taken because some of those built-in macro was already done there, it had nothing to do with the PvP gameplay at all.

You had mentioned it yourself: BTL / Leylines could use it. It's the same concept with Enchioan/FireIV/BlizzardIV, SAM's Iaijutsus, and more. Think about it.

Trust me.. the "weight" of Higabana and Midare is always there the moment you cast it, you don't need to throw them to two separate hotkeys to feel their weight for PvE content.

A lot of pvp feels better than pve right now, I think it's intentional since they seem to be trying to push more people to do it lately.

On topic, I agree that more skills should be consolidated, leylines and between the lines is another example.