Flawless Synthesis + Maker's Mark (bug or not)?

So here the scenario. My buddy is doing a 2* SB craft using Maker's Mark + Flawless Synthesis. He miss-manages his CP and ends up down at 12 CP. Flawless Synthesis requires 15 CP to activate and thus he could not press it.

But, under Maker's Mark

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Reduces Flawless Synthesis CP cost and durability loss to 0. Effect duration determined by recipe difficulty.
Available only on the first step.

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So, is it bug that he could not activate Flawless Synthesis in that situation?

The only reason he is running out of cp is because he is crafting backwards, if you are using makers mark you need to do the progress 1st and quality 2nd. Get the craft to 1 step before completion and then work quality

It is no bug.

While it is right that it would not cost the CP but you still need at least the amount of CP to activate it and this criteria is not set to 0.

2-star recipes have 3543 progress to finish. That means if you activate Maker's Mark on the first step, it will be active for 36 steps (3543/10, rounded up). That means on step 38 and above, Flawless will use CP and durability.

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Originally Posted by Legion88

It is no bug.
While it is right that it would not cost the CP but you still need at least the amount of CP to activate it and this criteria is not set to 0.

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So, the description is just poorly worded then.

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Reduces Flawless Synthesis CP cost and durability loss to 0. Effect duration determined by recipe difficulty.

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Should actually say something like:

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The Cost and Durability for Flawless Synthesis will be refunded.

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This brings me to another related question then, if you had only 10 durability available and pressed Flawless Synthesis under Maker's Mark, would your synthesis break? Just like the behaviour of Manipulation.

Given the tooltip, I'd imagine the synthesis would be fine since it is negating the durability drop outright as opposed to a... regenerative effect like manipulation. I have not tested this myself however so I cannot say for sure.

Using Flawless Synthesis under MaMa at 10 or 5 Durability does not break the craft.

Source: just tested it.

Fascinating, so on the one hand the DUR 0 is properly honoured according to the description but on the other hand the CP cost of 0 is not properly honoured.

how far into the craft did this occur? makers mark is only good for a certain amount of steps depending on the level of craft. To me, it sounds as though makers mark had already dropped off, especially if they're sitting at that low cp

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Originally Posted by Duskwight

how far into the craft did this occur? makers mark is only good for a certain amount of steps depending on the level of craft. To me, it sounds as though makers mark had already dropped off, especially if they're sitting at that low cp

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You cant activate Flawless Synthesis under MM if you dont have the CP for it though - I had the same thought myself yesterday, so I tested it by wasting all my CP on comfortzone.
Not sure if its a bug or intentional though - either way its something that shouldnt happen because you shouldnt be using CP-heavy-actions as long as MM is up.

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Originally Posted by Vidu

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Interesting. Perhaps it is really a bug that no one discovered throughout the course of Heavensward!

hmmm:

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Originally Posted by Caimie_Tsukino

Interesting. Perhaps it is really a bug that no one discovered throughout the course of Heavensward!

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I think its because we didn't think people were stupid enough not to read skills and not understand how they work...

Makers Mark can only be started on FIRST STEP.
Flawless Synthesis is FREE when you have Makers Mark Stacks.
Flawless Synthesis is 90% proc and only increases progress by 40 meaning if it lasts 37 moves then thats realistically a 30/37 proc so thats: 1200 progress... Less than Muscle Memory Gives except it gives + 24 CP from comfort zones.

So once the makers mark counter hits 0 you shouldn't use flawless synthesis anymore instead you should work on getting your progress to the point where its 1 Careful synth II / III away from completion then from there build up the quality.

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Originally Posted by pkminer30

hmmm:
So once the makers mark counter hits 0 you shouldn't use flawless synthesis anymore instead you should work on getting your progress to the point where its 1 Careful synth II / III away from completion then from there build up the quality.

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This ^, at most the only cp you should be using is for comfort zone right after maker's mark then steady hand and 1 or 2 piece by piece. the rest should be flawless synth until it's used up. Don't even use inner quiet until you are done with flawless synth

1. Cut pizza into slices with pizza cutter
2. Cook pizza in oven for 15 minutes at 425
3. Remove pizza from box and plastic

Why is my pizza burnt, under-cooked, and covered in melted plastic?

DoL had an issue with the initial red scip folklore nodes in HW. "Next collectible action GP cost -200" required full GP cost to use the actions.

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Originally Posted by pkminer30

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Originally Posted by Tsubaki75

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I was in disbelieve at first too, but I wouldn't dismiss other people's claim prematurely. Have you actually tried to investigate it?
Vidu said she did.
Well, I have too... look:
http://i.imgur.com/O200AqW.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/ctp1LX6.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/XaM6Wac.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/hMiRsld.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/aRXgIMW.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/nLOsqkR.jpg
Myth busted. Evidence here. IT IS A BUG.
It's not something we'd usually encounter, as this is obviously not utilizing Maker's Mark correctly. Hence, people who actually craft properly never saw this bug. Yet, a bug is a bug. If Maker's Mark is still active, it makes no sense for Flawless Syn to blur out.

Thanks for testing Vidu and Camie. I was going to do this when I get on tonight. You have saved me that effort.

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Originally Posted by StouterTaru

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LOL, this reminded me of Short Circuit.

Has anyone here submitted a bug report yet? If not I can do it.

EDIT: Made the report and submitted it!

It's not a bug it's how the system is designed. If you go onto a caster class all skills you don't have mp for are greyed. This works on the same principle, flawless synth is a skill that can be used on its own without makers mark that's why it becomes unavailable if you don't have min cp. If it was programmed to be a makers only skill then it would be greyed unless makers was active. I say it should stay that way to force ppl to use it right

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Originally Posted by Tsubaki75

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The bug is that you need 15 CP to use Flawless Synthesis EVEN IF you have Maker's Mark up, even though it wouldn't consume any CP. It's like if BLM couldn't use Firestarter proc because they don't have enough MP for F3 as if they were to cast it normally.

Mind explaining how that is intended?

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Originally Posted by Tsubaki75

I say it should stay that way to force ppl to use it right

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It doesn't matter if people use it the right way or not, what matters is that the skills work the way they should work. Hell, we only found out this bug, which may have been present since HW launch, because OP's friend was in a situation that most crafters are rarely in.

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Originally Posted by Caimie_Tsukino

I was in disbelieve at first too, but I wouldn't dismiss other people's claim prematurely.

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Okay I don't understand the changes made to MaMa and FS. Did they raise the MaMa stacks or you've used PbP somewhere?
because I've never hit that much progress using MaMa with so many stacks left.

As Rath explained it (can't remember original source), MaMa is used for picking up Tricks of the Trade procs for additional Precise Touches
-after- MaMa stacks is gone. I think it was misused somewhere.

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Originally Posted by uvuvwevwevweonyetenyevweugwemu

Okay I don't understand the changes made to MaMa and FS. Did they raise the MaMa stacks or you've used PbP somewhere?
because I've never hit that much progress using MaMa with so many stacks left.

As Rath explained it (can't remember original source), MaMa is used for picking up Tricks of the Trade procs for additional Precise Touches
-after- MaMa stacks is gone. I think it was misused somewhere.

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You seem really confused... First, there has not been any changes made to MaMa and FS. I have used 3x PBP (as shown on the chat box in pic 3). In fact, after the PBPs, I have used CS III and Observe+FocS as well, but I have skipped that picture, as it wasn't a point I was trying to make there. I then burnt off all my CP with Master's Mend II x2 one after another, which made absolutely no sense in a real crafting scenario. The whole purpose of this was just to create the scenario which I have plenty of MaMa stacks left but fewer than 15 CP. I was not actually trying to HQ anything.

In Rath's rotation, the main purpose of MaMa is not for picking up Tricks of Trades. It is to allow free Flawless Syn to be performed after 2x PBP, so that one can push progress to near completion before working on quality. But being able to pick up Tricks of Trades during MaMa is a bonus that should be done when it's available. In Rath's rotation, because one would have used Steady Hand and 2x PBP, so there's plenty of room for taking Trick of Trades for extra CP. In other rotations that use MaMa but not PBP, one would need to "create" room for CP gain by burning off CP with something, e.g. Inner Quiet. Comfort Zone should also be used during MaMa, and it should be activated to line up perfectly with the MaMa stacks. This way, when both CZ and MaMa falls off simultaneously, you can immediately re-apply CZ before starting to push quality.

In any case, if you're a level 70 crafter in Storm Blood, you should not be using Rath's rotation anymore.

If you were going for this via Piece by Piece you're spending a lot of CP to gain the 1200 necessary. Using steady hand or risking the 10% failure on piece by piece is up to you. However with out the CP it doesn't pass the true/false test which is common in programming.
Does Player Meet 15 cp requirement to use? True, next T/F statement of Is makers mark active T/F
Does Player Meet 15 CP requirement? False unable to use ability. It must past this test first if it doesnt your craft will no longer proceed. Simple Programmer Logic