Why no Plex system?

For those unfamiliar, the "Plex" system is one where players can buy a month of game time from the MMO developer that they can then sell for in game currency.

No actual new in-game currency is generated. It's just players with more time and less real money selling in-game money to players who have more money but less time to play, and it goes a long way toward curbing RMT because most players would rather go with a safe transaction instead of risking being banned for buying gil.

Have the devs commented on possibly adding it to the game, especially now that jump potions are here?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RichardButte

it goes a long way toward curbing RMT because most players would rather go with a safe transaction instead of risking being banned for buying gil.

---

Or it promotes it if purchasing the required amount of gil is cheaper than what the normal subscription cost would be?

The dev team hasn't ever shown any interest in adding a plex system to XIV. It doesn't really seem to be something that the community is very interested in either, as the topic rarely comes up.

How it is not RMT through the back door?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Felis

How it is not RMT through the back door?

---

Actually it's more akin to RMT through the front door as opposed to the back door, which is what we have now. Money goes straight to the devs and is treated as time bought anyway, I would imagine. I would think it's a good tradeoff for people with more time than money to people with more money than time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dualgunner

Actually it's more akin to RMT through the front door as opposed to the back door, which is what we have now. Money goes straight to the devs and is treated as time bought anyway, I would imagine. I would think it's a good tradeoff for people with more time than money to people with more money than time.

---

As a person with neither I opt for the status quo, which makes neither of those groups happy. :p

I would settle for being able to hire extra retainers for gil. :/

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by worldofneil

Or it promotes it if purchasing the required amount of gil is cheaper than what the normal subscription cost would be?

---

When players have a safe, "legal" means of paying for currency in game, it ruins the profit margins of RMT companies because players can sidestep the fear of being banned.

Just like I'm sure jump potions are a much more attractive option than paying a powerleveling service because of how much safer it is.

It's worked in a number of other MMOs, including EVE Online, WoW, and Wildstar, and you see a lot less RMT activity as a result.

This is basically legalized rmt. And I say no to the highest levels on this.

I view ppl selling plex/WoW coin/The Archeage token things as being no different then those buying directly from RMT. It is literally the same thing without a risk to their account being hacked or credit card info stolen.

I do not understand how ppl can be for a plex system and against RMT. It makes no sense at all.

Yea it ruins illegal RMT... but all it is is making the Developers the RMT instead. Which is much worse in almost every way.

If they do add it should be $30-40 for a 1 month sub token, really screw over ppl for going the RMT route.

This is something ive wanted for a while. If we take WoW's system as example, you can for ingame currency pay for cash-shop items including subscription.

It works by one player purchasing a token for irl cash (20$) and putting it on their equivalent to market board for a set price generated from supply/demand. WoW players cannot game the system for more gold nor is gold generated in the process. All gold in circulation was already there.

With SE allowing us to rent retainers and buy a lot of cash-shop exclusives i am surprised this is not a thing. I would love to use my millions of gil on something useful. A subscription token would allow me to.

SE wouldnt loose money, in fact they would gain. 15 dollar for regular sub or 20 for gil- paid by someone else.

Saying "ohno then we can just go buy gil" is not an issue to me as we can with the retainers we rent sell, gain and store more materials. In that sense we can already rent market superiority.

+upvote from here rich

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xatsh

This is basically legalized rmt. And I say no to the highest levels on this.

---

Can we get a reason why funneling the money into the Devs pockets where it MIGHT (yes I'm not saying it WILL) get put back into our game, instead of into the Gil Farmers pockets where it WILL be turned into MORE bots and MORE spam is a worse scenario?

I don't see how you can equate the two. One gives the money to the game you love, the other gives it to people who are actively trying to squeeze as much cash as they can out of it while disregarding everyone else's playing experience. The money is THERE and being moved no matter which system is in place.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xatsh

snip

---

Okay so let's start with: In your opinion, what makes RMT bad?

Maybe I dont see it but that means no money goes to the game and the company. Gil is so damn easy to get in this game even as a non crafter/gatherer

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RichardButte

For those unfamiliar, the "Plex" system is one where players can buy a month of game time from the MMO developer that they can then sell for in game currency.

No actual new in-game currency is generated. It's just players with more time and less real money selling in-game money to players who have more money but less time to play, and it goes a long way toward curbing RMT because most players would rather go with a safe transaction instead of risking being banned for buying gil.

Have the devs commented on possibly adding it to the game, especially now that jump potions are here?

---

Most likely because they know they can't make a good econ and the top crafters on every server will have perma free subs.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rinuko

Maybe I dont see it but that means no money goes to the game and the company. Gil is so damn easy to get in this game even as a non crafter/gatherer

---

^

This is the effect of having everything handed to you, there is no need for the main in game currency. Because of that, the only use for gil now would be to get free sub and I do not see that having good results.

If FFXIV had a good encon, maybe it could work, but I suspect the dev team is aware of it and the reason why they don't.

I think it's a little late for this sort of addition. Taking Plex back to its origin, FF14 won't have the same issues EVE Online does with Plex accounts because we don't have FFA PvP and we don't have the player driven economy that controls gear (ships and fits) that EVE Online has.

Still, what FF14 also lacks is Gil value. You could play this game to end game, flat broke and be fine. You could have 50 billion Gil and not even have savage content unlocked. Once you add a Plex system, you define Gil but for the guy with an extra $15 in his account, why does he need Gil all of a sudden?

No, I think this is a stupid idea.

Just look at the amount of inflation in WoW right now. You might argue that we're carrying millions of gil, but considering we don't have Silver or Copper currencies like WoW does, a million gil only equates to about 1000 gold. Now consider the fact that most players in WoW are carrying literally hundreds of thouzands of gold. The ability to indirectly buy gold through subscription tokens has caused inflation to be so bad, completely new players can be carrying enough Gold to buy their Epic Flying skill before reaching level 50.

If you want to earh money, go work for it instead of buying it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dameron

No, I think this is a stupid idea.

Just look at the amount of inflation in WoW right now. You might argue that we're carrying millions of gil, but considering we don't have Silver or Copper currencies like WoW does, a million gil only equates to about 1000 gold. Now consider the fact that most players in WoW are carrying literally hundreds of thouzands of gold. The ability to indirectly buy gold through subscription tokens has caused inflation to be so bad, completely new players can be carrying enough Gold to buy their Epic Flying skill before reaching level 50.

If you want to earh money, go work for it instead of buying it.

---

The WoW tokens are not generating gold. It is simply distributing the already existing gold. WoW tokens do not contribute to inflation, WoW goldfarmers does.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Snow_Princess

Most likely because they know they can't make a good econ and the top crafters on every server will have perma free subs.

---

Pretty much this, and what games that do have it know that it takes months or even years to stabilize, and it's all a monetary loss until it does.

It could be argued that SE could tweak the price as needed so it would be a monetary gain, but to do that would require jacking the gil price to ludicrous levels, which would then mean that selling it would net gil income that would destroy economies unless it was set up so that selling it would yield far less gil than the purchase amount, in which that would lead to players either buying loads more or no one buying them, resulting in resources wasted when they could've gone to other, better QoL features.

Either way, it would just lead to a lot of people not being happy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Enur

The WoW tokens are not generating gold. It is simply distributing the already existing gold. WoW tokens do not contribute to inflation, WoW goldfarmers does.

---

WoW's gold cap got raised specifically to accomodate the increasing prices of the WoW tokens. So yes, it has contributed to the inflation as well.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rymm

I would settle for being able to hire extra retainers for gil. :/

---

Now THIS is a gil sink I 100% support.

You can pay sub using Steam wallet from mogstation. I'm not sure how that works, didn't get the game from Steam/PS store.
I see some websites offer Steam vouchers for points doing surveys etc if that's your kind of thing.
Same thing with PSN I think you can buy gift vouchers of sort. If someone wants a free sub, they have that options.

this really just sounds like a slightly more honorable version of RMT to me, with that being that you pay the devs and not some other company, and no gil gets generated. Hoever this wildly shakes up who can get gil. One of the many things that bother me about RMT is it gives tons of money to players who did nothing but pay some real life money. Which is pretty much a huge middle finger to people who actually invested time into saving up for something. And for that point it doesn't matter if the gil are bought from some shady service or SE themselves, it's still RMT.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rakiria

this really just sounds like a slightly more honorable version of RMT to me, with that being that you pay the devs and not some other company, and no gil gets generated. Hoever this wildly shakes up who can get gil. One of the many things that bother me about RMT is it gives tons of money to players who did nothing but pay some real life money. Which is pretty much a huge middle finger to people who actually invested time into saving up for something. And for that point it doesn't matter if the gil are bought from some shady service or SE themselves, it's still RMT.

---

I find it weird you value time spent in a game more than time spent earning real money. Some people have more time than money, some people have more money than time. .. some very unfortunate people have neither.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by worldofneil

Or it promotes it if purchasing the required amount of gil is cheaper than what the normal subscription cost would be?

---

Trust me, it would help, if SE would at least punish buyers. Currently there is barely a reason to care, because there is nothing to be afraid of. In WoW i never felt the urge to buy gold for my sub, the risk of punishment is not worth the 2 bucks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rakiria

this really just sounds like a slightly more honorable version of RMT to me, with that being that you pay the devs and not some other company, and no gil gets generated. Hoever this wildly shakes up who can get gil. One of the many things that bother me about RMT is it gives tons of money to players who did nothing but pay some real life money. Which is pretty much a huge middle finger to people who actually invested time into saving up for something. And for that point it doesn't matter if the gil are bought from some shady service or SE themselves, it's still RMT.

---

I dont feel like you know what the overall problem with RMT is.

- subscription cost 15$
- RMT will offer the amount of gil, that a subscription is worth, for 10$
- people will buy gil from the RMT, than buy the subscription
- RMT will still do business

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by uvuvwevwevweonyetenyevweugwemu

You can pay sub using Steam wallet from mogstation. I'm not sure how that works, didn't get the game from Steam/PS store.
I see some websites offer Steam vouchers for points doing surveys etc if that's your kind of thing.
Same thing with PSN I think you can buy gift vouchers of sort. If someone wants a free sub, they have that options.

---

You can only buy the client in the PSN.
For everything else you have to visit the mogstation website.

No thanks. This is legalized RMT. It gives them more work to do and more spam for us. If the game was F2P I could understand it but then again Im playing FFXIV because it's not F2P.
This will only screw the market. New players will still need to pay which is kinda unfair for them since old veterans could play almost for free. There will be lots of people who will buy gil from RMT sites to buy this in-game sub effectively ruining the economy due to inflation rates. Not to mention greedy people will charge many millions for this.
This only benefits the RMT while it will divide the community. As we see this game succeeded as it is so why bother change it and risk losing customers plus all the work SE did to keep RMT at bay will be for nothing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xatsh

Yea it ruins illegal RMT... but all it is is making the Developers the RMT instead. Which is much worse in almost every way.

---

It's actually better in every possible way.

1. Players will see drastically less RMT spam in-game.

2. Players will have a much lower chance of having their accounts hacked. Pretty much the entire reason we have two-factor authentication is because RMT companies will do everything they can to hack into player accounts so they can drain them of money. Less RMT demand = less RMT activity = everyone is safer.

3. There will always be RMT. MMO devs with more experience and money than SE have done everything they can to snuff it out and you just...can't...kill it. The only way to beat it is to offer players a safe, legal means of doing it.

4. In the case of the developer doing it, all they're doing is acting as a broker between two players: one player who has an abundance of in-game money and the other who has more RL money to spend.

5. RMT companies tend to also farm up millions of in-game currency that causes inflation. If you ever wondered why the prices on marketboard items are so high, it's very probably due to the presence of RMT companies adding lots of additional currency to the game. Plex doesn't add currency to the game at ALL: it just moves money between one player to the next in exchange for game time.

6. It's better the money goes to the developer where it'll be spent on adding new content to the game instead of to RMT companies where it'll be spent on figuring out better ways to crack SE's security systems so they can hack into player accounts.

Seriously, this system works wonders in so many other MMOs that I'm actually very surprised SE doesn't have it already...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Snow_Princess

Most likely because they know they can't make a good econ and the top crafters on every server will have perma free subs.

---

They're not "free". It's just that someone else is paying for their sub. SE still gets the same amount of money either way (possibly more).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dameron

WoW's gold cap got raised specifically to accomodate the increasing prices of the WoW tokens. So yes, it has contributed to the inflation as well.

---

When?

WoW tokens hover at around 50,000g as of ~6 months ago. You sure you're thinking of WoW and not some other MMO...?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rakiria

Which is pretty much a huge middle finger to people who actually invested time into saving up for something.

---

It's far less of a middle finger when the person who invested the time is being given a month subscription in exchange for this money, instead of it going to an RMT company.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Riardon

This will only screw the market.

---

It hasn't "screwed the market" in EVE, WoW, or Wildstar. It wouldn't do so to XIV, either.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Felis

- people will buy gil from the RMT, than buy the subscription

---

-People will get banned/suspended.
-People will stop buying from RMT.
-We won't have to deal with annoying RMT spam every single time we teleport into a major city where they replace the barking bot every 30 minutes with yet another character that we need to report and blacklist.

As a fan of WoW's system, I would love it.

RMT is already taking place and thriving despite all the bans. That means all the negatives of RMT is already in game. If RMT ran by SE, we will see lot less bots in game.

Eve online worked on this base. I really liked it.
Earning gil in ffxiv is very easy and there's not really something to buy with it. I'd support adding the option to buy game time with in-game money.

I don't have a problem with it personally. Though I can see it causing SE to have an exchange rate melt down while they try and figure out the value of gil to the plex with all the currant gil saturating the servers. The other thing is a general lack of items that would make players want to use it. There is no BoE tradable entry level raid gear, attunment keys, difficult to get sockets/augments, no spiffy items with special effects, no skill advancement after the level up. Unless you really need that hot new glamor or furnashing day one or really want to buy a run carry, or lightning strikes and a house plot opens up, the game has little to offer for a mass amount of gil.

What I could really get on board with though is a form of alternate rare drop currency in game, say Mog Chips or something that can be used instead of real money on the cash shop.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aylis

Though I can see it causing SE to have an exchange rate melt down while they try and figure out the value of gil to the plex with all the currant gil saturating the servers.

---

SE doesn't set the gil price, though. That's entirely up to the players and the market.

Quote:

---

There is no BoE tradable entry level raid gear, attunment keys, difficult to get sockets/augments, no spiffy items with special effects, no skill advancement after the level up.

---

But there's crafted raid gear which is either entry level or possibly above, and socketing materia makes a HUGE difference in your character's potency.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dualgunner

Okay so let's start with: In your opinion, what makes RMT bad?

---

I think for most people, RMT is bad because it is a disruption to their immersion and gameplay. To have your chat log spammed with long messages about discounts gets annoying quick, and putting the character doing the spamming on your ignore list is not a proper solution as these bots are deleted and made again once they're shut down. From there another concern is cyber safety and security as these sites can be hosting malicious programs meant to steal financial information. Beyond that, paranoid players will have the very real concern of being falsely accused of RMT transactions if they move large sums of in-game currency, even if it was obtained legitimately. I don't think SE has ever done false accusations and banning, but its always a real concern.

After that, I imagine most players find the idea of buying currency to be akin to cheating, which is a fair complaint to have. However, you'll always find players who enjoy cheating in a game for one reason or another, and an MMO may not let you type in a code for god mode, but RMT allows for economic cheats.

I will say the first time I experienced Plex was with World of Warcraft and at the time it came off to me as Blizzard trying to make money. I'm sure they are, but it certainly did a number on the RMT trading as well. Since players buying currency in MMOs seems like it'll be an inevitability, I have to admit, I would rather the game's developers gain the profit.

I don't really have an issue with the concept, but unlike other games where this system works I see absolutely zero incentive to actually SELL a sub token, given what little meaningful gil sinks we have in the game already. If players see nothing of substantial worth to buy with in-game currency, they won't sell tokens.

Admittedly, this is just my personal viewpoint - I wouldn't object a token implementation on principle.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by loreleidiangelo

I don't really have an issue with the concept, but unlike other games where this system works I see absolutely zero incentive to actually SELL a sub token, given what little meaningful gil sinks we have in the game already. If players see nothing of substantial worth to buy with in-game currency, they won't sell tokens.

Admittedly, this is just my personal viewpoint - I wouldn't object a token implementation on principle.

---

Its not as though SE couldn't create in-game gil sinks either. New in-game content not directly related to the Mogstation is always in fairly high demand. Imagine if items from the Gold Saucer could be purchased with Gil instead of MGP? Or that Gil to MGP conversions were no longer limited? Well, someone with 10,000,000 Gil might really want that Fenrir Mount, having nothing better to do with their gil, and decide to convert it to MGP to get the mount. Those without the gil could continue to play the MGP games and challenge logs to slowly earn it.

This would be a terrible move & open up so many legal problems. If real money could be traded to gil then anything in the Gold Saucer would become gambling under the laws of most countries. As a result it would either be restricted to over 18/21/25 or banned altogether. How would the game check the age of the user? Would everyone be required to pay subscriptions with credit cards or provide certified copies of passports? What about selling crafted items - they'd be able to be purchased with cash therefore would fall under Consumer Regulations.

A can of worms.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Culfinrandir

This would be a terrible move & open up so many legal problems. If real money could be traded to gil then anything in the Gold Saucer would become gambling under the laws of most countries. As a result it would either be restricted to over 18/21/25 or banned altogether. How would the game check the age of the user? Would everyone be required to pay subscriptions with credit cards or provide certified copies of passports? What about selling crafted items - they'd be able to be purchased with cash therefore would fall under Consumer Regulations.

A can of worms.

---

But...Gold Saucer doesn't use gil as currency. Therefore, this wouldn't affect GS at all.

Has WoW had any of these legal problems you say XIV would? Because I don't see the can of worms you do.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dualgunner

But...Gold Saucer doesn't use gil as currency. Therefore, this wouldn't affect GS at all.

Has WoW had any of these legal problems you say XIV would? Because I don't see the can of worms you do.

---

WoW hasn't had any of those legal problems because there is no way to convert gold into money. The, 'Legal,' issues he pointed out may as well apply to a game of monopoly. You bought the, 'Fake Currency,' and are, 'Gambling,' since you're rolling dice to determine what you gain and lose and all. If there was a way to convert Gil into money, yeah, there would be an issue. But Plex systems don't do that. The idea that using money to buy game time and selling game time to another player would cause issues with consumer laws is laughable since in most MMOs if you buy something off of a Cash Shop you can vendor sell it for money which is just one additional step in this logic of violating consumer laws.

The only thing I really see this affecting might be the housing situation. Suddenly more people can get the gil easily (whether to upgrade to a medium or a large) by just dropping some cash on tokens (let's be honest, there have been multiple threads about people wanting to use the cash shop to buy houses outright). Yeah, affording a small is chump change to some, but I've actually known some players that are not that great at making money.

People already kinda did this with the marriage bracelets, they would sell them for gil since they can be traded. All they said is "Plz don't do it." Doubt anyone got banned.

I don't mind either way I suppose but I guess some might see it as a gray area P2W.

On the topic of WoW, most of the inflation is/was caused by garrison/OH gold missions (especially with alts) IMO not really the token.

I would not be surprised if they are already thinking about it since they already put in a jump potion.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RichardButte

Seriously, this system works wonders in so many other MMOs that I'm actually very surprised SE doesn't have it already...
They're not "free". It's just that someone else is paying for their sub. SE still gets the same amount of money either way (possibly more).



When?

WoW tokens hover at around 50,000g as of ~6 months ago. You sure you're thinking of WoW and not some other MMO...?



It's far less of a middle finger when the person who invested the time is being given a month subscription in exchange for this money, instead of it going to an RMT company.



It hasn't "screwed the market" in EVE, WoW, or Wildstar. It wouldn't do so to XIV, either.



-People will get banned/suspended.
-People will stop buying from RMT.
-We won't have to deal with annoying RMT spam every single time we teleport into a major city where they replace the barking bot every 30 minutes with yet another character that we need to report and blacklist.

---

Do other MNO's have a poor/ low activity econ? RIGHT NOW! with how our game encon works, having these tokens will not work. All it would do is make the hosing situation WORSE! because that be the only reason to sell them.

For the idea someone else is basically paying for the sub, point taken but I do not see good coming out of it. I think people will whine about some people having perma free subs or something because gil is hard for them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vexander

WoW hasn't had any of those legal problems because there is no way to convert gold into money. The, 'Legal,' issues he pointed out may as well apply to a game of monopoly. You bought the, 'Fake Currency,' and are, 'Gambling,' since you're rolling dice to determine what you gain and lose and all. If there was a way to convert Gil into money, yeah, there would be an issue. But Plex systems don't do that. The idea that using money to buy game time and selling game time to another player would cause issues with consumer laws is laughable since in most MMOs if you buy something off of a Cash Shop you can vendor sell it for money which is just one additional step in this logic of violating consumer laws.

---

The person you are quoting is correct to an extent, SE did say it is why they had trouble coming out with the GS to begin with. However the GS has a low limit of converting, to have GS money be it's own thing basically so it does not step on any laws. Remember each country has different laws when comes to those things.