future expansion: The Garlean empire to be enemy territory.

so, eventually we may be setting foot within the enemy territory in expansions to come, and i dont think we are going to have many friends within that area.

so with the addition of literally every mob in this expansion being aggressive (as the devs have done so far), what would make the unknown Garlean land feel like we are actually within enemy territory and how would it be different from simply aggroing a specific mob?

i think it would be interesting to add a law enforcement mechanic within certain areas in the expansion. roughly the same as any others, killing a certain number or pretty much aggroing a high ranked garlean soldier mob would spawn more soldiers consistently until the player would either escape, find a hiding place, kill even more garlean soldiers, or reach an ally settlement.

It'd probably just be easier to have Garlean soldier mobs cast a longer spell called Alarum or something that would spawn additional soldiers. Maybe a threat level system in Garlean outposts where killing mobs in them places a debuff on you that increases aggro radius on other mobs.

As for the mobs in this expansion, the logic for them I think is not aggressive, but rather territorial. We come in on their turf; there is no "neutral ground", rather us being the lone invader. The only real difference with the Garleans is their level of organization.

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Originally Posted by Kazrah

It'd probably just be easier to have Garlean soldier mobs cast a longer spell called Alarum or something that would spawn additional soldiers. Maybe a threat level system in Garlean outposts where killing mobs in them places a debuff on you that increases aggro radius on other mobs.

As for the mobs in this expansion, the logic for them I think is not aggressive, but rather territorial. We come in on their turf; there is no "neutral ground", rather us being the lone invader. The only real difference with the Garleans is their level of organization.

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true, for we may not be against common soldiers, but a well rounded defensive police force. as for your concepts, literally anything in that kind of form is perfect either way. just so long as it actually feels like we are within enemy territory.

i specifically like your "cast alarum" idea as an ability that can spawn more, possibly weaker, enemies. to be fair, it would make sense if it were interrupt-able and that the enemy can only cast it if a certain number enemies are aggroed (possible just two) and that the caster runs a fair distance from the player before starting the cast.

It'll probably end up like post-2.55

Ul'Dah, where the NPC guards will point out that while they have orders to capture/kill you on sight, they know damn well they don't have a chance of overpowering you so they're gonna go ahead and pretend they never saw you.

Its ok for Combat classes but as a Gatherer its a real pain in the bum when you busy farming and a mob hits you for 50% of the your hp, Stealth is annoying to use why does it make me run slower...

But i wouldn't mind the feel of being in the lions den, would be fun but i doubt they will do it.

Personally, I hope they borrow something from RIFT (Of all games, lol).
Basically, the Rifts would spawn enemies who would, if left alone, proceed across the map and take over smaller outposts and such (including quest givers and shops)

I think it'd be interesting if XIV borrowed that concept. Basically, Garlean outposts and forts and such spread across the map. Allied forces would spawn in captured points, fortify the location and then attempt to take the nearest Garlean outpost.
Players would help attacking forces, But to keep the zone from becoming 100% friendly due to the OP nature of Players versus NPCs, Add in an Escalation mechanic, The more lost ground any given side has, the more forces they spawn to protect those locations (Think of it as consolidating existing forces into larger groups instead of spreading out in the zone).
We'd have some constant push/pull warfare going on.
Maybe give cosmetic rewards at level cap to keep players interested in it beyond any quests that happen to be in those zones.

I believe Guild Wars 2 did something similar with certain events that would take over friendly locations, requiring players to take them back. Didn't XIV 1.0 have something akin to that? Hamlets or somesuch?

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Originally Posted by Sylve

Personally, I hope they borrow something from RIFT (Of all games, lol).
Basically, the Rifts would spawn enemies who would, if left alone, proceed across the map and take over smaller outposts and such (including quest givers and shops)

I think it'd be interesting if XIV borrowed that concept. Basically, Garlean outposts and forts and such spread across the map. Allied forces would spawn in captured points, fortify the location and then attempt to take the nearest Garlean outpost.
Players would help attacking forces, But to keep the zone from becoming 100% friendly due to the OP nature of Players versus NPCs, Add in an Escalation mechanic, The more lost ground any given side has, the more forces they spawn to protect those locations (Think of it as consolidating existing forces into larger groups instead of spreading out in the zone).
We'd have some constant push/pull warfare going on.
Maybe give cosmetic rewards at level cap to keep players interested in it beyond any quests that happen to be in those zones.

I believe Guild Wars 2 did something similar with certain events that would take over friendly locations, requiring players to take them back. Didn't XIV 1.0 have something akin to that? Hamlets or somesuch?

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I think hamlet defense was instanced, not overworld like Rift or GW2.

It would be a great start if they were learning to keep all their automatic doors closed by default. So much technology and yet you can enter most of the castrums as you want, i have more trouble going into my appartment because of the loading times XD

can't enter a village without get attacking by NPCs

Honestly, there never is 0 allies. We will probably find some village or a garlean rebellion tired of how the land is ruled, alongside maybe beast tribe who are probably oppressed there because of primals.

I have a suspicion that we won't be going to Garlemald to bring it down. Frankly trying to would potentially be catastrophic. The outer territories which still have remnants of their original power structures are one thing but the Garlean heartland has been under Garlean control for 50 years. Any previous power structures would be long gone and the people would know no other life but Garlean rule. If we just destroy the Garlean governing structure, your going to have a massive power vacuum and complete chaos across the continent.

More likely I think we will see events start to lead to internal power struggles inside of Garlemald and we will get involved to try and aid more moderate elements within Garlemald. We have seen the worse of the Garleans but we have had hints that Garlean rule isn't universally cruel or brutal.

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Originally Posted by Belhi

I have a suspicion that we won't be going to Garlemald to bring it down. Frankly trying to would potentially be catastrophic. The outer territories which still have remnants of their original power structures are one thing but the Garlean heartland has been under Garlean control for 50 years. Any previous power structures would be long gone and the people would know no other life but Garlean rule. If we just destroy the Garlean governing structure, your going to have a massive power vacuum and complete chaos across the continent.

More likely I think we will see events start to lead to internal power struggles inside of Garlemald and we will get involved to try and aid more moderate elements within Garlemald. We have seen the worse of the Garleans but we have had hints that Garlean rule isn't universally cruel or brutal.

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But even the most moderate elements we've seen fervently support the emperor. I don't know how many Garleans would actually turn against Varis unless it was to support their own claimant to the throne, and there's no guarantee that they wouldn't be every bit as bad as Varis and Solus. Eorzea backing a usurper could even trigger an outright civil war.

Why do people believe we'll go to Garlemald and overthrow the empire in the next expansion again?

Well, hopefully if we do move into Garlean territory it will be as allies rather than enemies. Zenos was confirmed to be completely unhinged and not working towards Garlemald's benefit. There's also a Garlean Consulate within Kugane which will serve as the perfect location for potential diplomacy with the more stable elements of Garlemald. Which, thanks to Regula and a Centurion in a side quest within Gyr Abania we know exist.

Garlemald also has a lot of fans and there's quite a lot of people who have absolutely no interest in seeing it dismantled or destroyed.

Well as far as the world of FF 14. We have Eorza which lies on the far western side of the World Map and then we have Othard I believe which is where Stormblood takes place on the far eastern side of the world. There is a lot of land and expanse in between. The next expansion will fill out some of these places.

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Originally Posted by dinnertime

Why do people believe we'll go to Garlemald and overthrow the empire in the next expansion again?

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because it's the only things left in the storyline outside of Zodiark and that doesn't require new cities/zones.

Garleans and Ascians are the basis of the entire world that these characters live in.

though i think we won't be completely opposed with the entire nation.

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Originally Posted by SendohJin

because it's the only things left in the storyline outside of Zodiark and that doesn't require new cities/zones.

Garleans and Ascians are the basis of the entire world that these characters live in.

though i think we won't be completely opposed with the entire nation.

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If Doma can be shamelessly shoehorned into a story, I'm pretty sure that goes for any nation, including neutral zones such as Thavnair and Old Sharlayan.

Then there's all the other islands throughout Eorzea along with the rest of Doma (think we've covered maybe less than half of the landmass) and maybe Hingashi.

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Originally Posted by Kazrah

If Doma can be shamelessly shoehorned into a story, I'm pretty sure that goes for any nation, including neutral zones such as Thavnair and Old Sharlayan.

Then there's all the other islands throughout Eorzea along with the rest of Doma (think we've covered maybe less than half of the landmass) and maybe Hingashi.

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Othard has been a focus for now and the lower half is still inaccessible so there's that for the next expansion. they I'd love to see Thavnair or Old Sharlayan though.

Maybe the New World (which wasn't on the updated world map) and Meracydia even though it's a wasteland full of hostile people.

I'm not opposed with going to Ilsabard but I think it's way too soon for that. I like the idea of getting good relations with Garlemald though.

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Originally Posted by Kazrah

If Doma can be shamelessly shoehorned into a story, I'm pretty sure that goes for any nation, including neutral zones such as Thavnair and Old Sharlayan.

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Shameless as in Yugiri wasn't introduced in patch 2.2 of your game? Doma and Ala Mhigo has the same exact story, it would've been a total waste of time to stretch that liberation story out to two expansions.

They're setting up the introduction of Thavnair as a major player with the Thavnairian Consulate in Kugane. The issue is how to get the WoL interested in their problems and how those problems can be made bigger and more important than Garlemald retaliating against the 6 existing nations. You can't have a standalone expansion based on Thavnair jump ahead of Garlemald without doing that. it'd be much easier for them to draw Thavnair into conflict with Garlemald.

That's the same issue with Sharlayan, we have more than enough association with them with how many Scions are from there. Would not be surprised if it was introduced as part of the Ascian storyline but that alone can't carry an entire expansion.

I really hope they have something more interesting planned than for us and our new allies attempting to invade Garlemald.

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Originally Posted by SendohJin

Shameless as in Yugiri wasn't introduced in patch 2.2 of your game?

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Yup, especially not only how far Doma is compared to pretty much everything else, but there was no real reason for it to be in the main story other than giving Samurai its reason to exist as a playable job. Just because two places may have similar situations doesn't mean they need to be crammed into one story.

As for Thavnair, you said it yourself, Garlemald would have to strike first, and their presence in Hingashi tells me it's not an "if", but a "when", as something found within a neutral zone would be far easier to attain for an invading force than anything worth gaining from opposing nations that have proven to be strong enough to hold their own. Thavnair's greatest alchemy, Sharlayan's vast knowledge resources; both prime targets to both the Garleans and to their opposition as well as something that could be attained from islands elsewhere (swimming now has been and probably will be building up for that) or even the rest of Doma.

In short, to think we'd be going to Garlemald so soon would be to completely ignore everything else on the map.

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Originally Posted by Kazrah

but there was no real reason for it to be in the main story other than giving Samurai its reason to exist as a playable job. Just because two places may have similar situations doesn't mean they need to be crammed into one story.

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Doma being in this expansion has nothing to do with Samurai. they didn't want to tell a liberation story twice it would be repetitive and boring and the playerbase wants closure on Doma, that's plenty of justification to do what they did. yes, it is a little rushed but the opposite is not better, they didn't have two full stories to tell between the two areas.

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Originally Posted by Kazrah

In short, to think we'd be going to Garlemald so soon would be to completely ignore everything else on the map.

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It's not soon at all, if Garlemald is not in 5.0, 6.0 is FOUR years away. 6.x won't end till 2023 that means it takes 10 years to tell the Garlemald story? and that's already not counting 1.0 at all. Wrapping up Garlemald in 5.x means they have liberties to introduce other parts of the map with a 6.x story that's not dictated by the Garlean influence.

There's also nothing wrong with ignoring everything else on the map because the playerbase and the characters don't know or care about them whatsoever at this point in time. You complain about shoehorning and want them to shoehorn even more irrelevant stuff at the same time?

From a Lore standpoint, why would the Eorzean Alliance ATTACK and INVADE Garlemald?

It's one thing to liberate conquered territories, but why would the Eorzean Alliance or the Scions want to go full-blown G.W.Bush on Garlemald and conquer a sovereign country?
They lost their conquered territories, they're just minding thei own business now. Why would we do to them the same shit they did to us?

It's much easier and more plausible to go there as an ally against a common enemy then as an invading army. And in that situation, the Northern Othard zones wouldn't be any diffwerent from the others.

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Originally Posted by AlexionSkylark

From a Lore standpoint, why would the Eorzean Alliance ATTACK and INVADE Garlemald?

It's one thing to liberate conquered territories, but why would the Eorzean Alliance or the Scions want to go full-blown G.W.Bush on Garlemald and conquer a sovereign country?
They lost their conquered territories, they're just minding thei own business now. Why would we do to them the same shit they did to us?

It's much easier and more plausible to go there as an ally against a common enemy then as an invading army. And in that situation, the Northern Othard zones wouldn't be any diffwerent from the others.

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yes, i completely agree, it does not make sense for the alliance to invade an enemy nation. however, you are forgetting that i never mention anything about invasion in the first place. for all we know, we could be going to Garlemald for a completely different reason. more for the reason of "scion" responsibilities rather than alliance responsibilities. hence the reason why i believe we wont be seeing many allies within enemy territory. probably a few freedom fighters, but little to no members of the alliance.

for example, imagine a small settlement in garlemald contacting the Scions and reporting that a military group of Garlean soldiers are ruling over their territory with a primal(s) threat without the emperor's permission or knowledge. while it would be a hard choice, the scions may take action for the sake of it being a primal threat. that's how i see us entering garlemald without including the alliance.

They could go all kinds of ways. I defintely don't want the standard put certain costume on for a little bit scenario. Or for things to go into a full on justice system like ESO.

I would like the WoL and a few scions to go into the empire with a alter persona sort of similar to the griffin. Where the empire thinks you are someone they know of, but no one can actually verify you are the true one except for certain empire characters.

The idea would be something like Aether currents. But the unlocking is not gained by finding green glowies in obscure places. Let's call these Notoriety quests. FFXII played with this some but it was a simple running around town shouting stuff. Below is the simple way in that game.

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The player party rescues the character of Captain Basch from a dungeon, some years after his supposed execution. Basch needs to spread the word that his death was faked and he was alive. How? Let Vaan cause a commotion. Vaan’s idea of a commotion? Running around a city yelling that he is Captain Basch.

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Here the premise is to influence certain people or groups of people to grow a fondness or respect for the WoL. When first entering any soldier occupied area the WoL must first don that persona, trying to keep his/her distance from the empire while exploring until all possible persons are influenced enough to a point the WoL can relax more, even walk up to most imperials and talk.

It would consist of doing, saying, acting whatever is needed to sway people in key areas. Some scenarios like gaining entry into a prison, sewer, etc would have story and key npcs hidden throughout. During the course if you fail or get too close to the wrong people, make a bad choice, or whatever. You get a Bounty cooldown, soldiers aggro. You can take down one if it's in a secluded area. But if you run into 3 or more you get automatically jailed.

As for the open world outside these hot zones, there could probably be the standard aggro. I hope unlimited sprint gets added and rather than heavy, sprint is disabled for a brief time. Perhaps the empire soldiers do not reset or deagro as soon as your standard enemies from previous expansions.

If SE still wants something Aether current like they could have climbing or deep diving currents where you gotta have them to traverse a deep dungeon/cavern or sewer system. Flying currents are cool but we already had those two expansions.