Fordola Lupis bastard child of...

I'm not sure if this has been answered anywhere, (forgive me if this has) but from reading Fordola was appointed by Gaius. But I had assumed it was implied she was the bastard child of Gaius (as he enjoyed local women) and there's the allusions to black wolf through last name lupis plus how the camera lingers on the gunblade during the MSQ when Zenos gives Fordola the blade.
Any idea's, has it been answered? or am I looking into it too much?

Also quick question anyone know a good resource for how dialogue changes in quest if (you are different race, have completed certain quest, are a certain job...etc).
Thanks for your time.

Probably looking into it a little too much.

Fordola's last name, Lupis, is more than likely a reference to Gaius, but that doesn't mean he sired her. She was one of the Skulls, or Crania Lupi (Skulls of the Wolf), a military unit created by Gaius to try and integrate the Ala Mhigans into the Empire with little muss or fuss. This is likely where her last name comes from.

If Fordola were half-Garlean, she'd likely have pale blonde or white hair like Arenvald. The gunblade is meant to be a symbol of Imperial trust in Fordola (as a part of Zenos' manipulation).

Garland Tools has access to most dialogue. Some you'll have to recheck the Unending Journey in an inn, but for most purposes the database works (and is an invaluable research tool).

Though I have to admit that I don't remember hearing that Gaius slept with local women, I find that highly doubtful. Livia wouldn't have stood for it, for a start.

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Originally Posted by Astrid_Stormborn

Though I have to admit that I don't remember hearing that Gaius slept with local women, I find that highly doubtful. Livia wouldn't have stood for it, for a start.

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Livia would have been 8 or 9 at the time and hopefully wouldn't have had much say in the matter.

I don't remember anything really hinting at it. Frankly she doesn't have any physical traits to suggest she is half Garlean. I think Fordola's view of Giaus is more born out of his vision of having the Ala Mhigans incorporated members of the Empire. Giaus had a habit of being far less discriminatory towards non Garleans than many of his peers.

That said, it was still under his command that much of the original brutal treatment of the Ala Mhigans took place. I would be curious if this was part of a typical 'breaking in' of a conquered culture or if it was just side effect of Garlean views of Ala Mhigans as savages.

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Originally Posted by Belhi

I don't remember anything really hinting at it. Frankly she doesn't have any physical traits to suggest she is half Garlean. I think Fordola's view of Giaus is more born out of his vision of having the Ala Mhigans incorporated members of the Empire. Giaus had a habit of being far less discriminatory towards non Garleans than many of his peers.

That said, it was still under his command that much of the original brutal treatment of the Ala Mhigans took place. I would be curious if this was part of a typical 'breaking in' of a conquered culture or if it was just side effect of Garlean views of Ala Mhigans as savages.

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It was probably part of how he judged people. If they were broken, he had dregs to use for labor or conscription. If they stood tall, he knew that they were worth his time. The Crania Lupi would fall into the latter category.

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Originally Posted by Belhi

[I]t was still under [Gaius'] command that much of the original brutal treatment of the Ala Mhigans took place. I would be curious if this was part of a typical 'breaking in' of a conquered culture or if it was just side effect of Garlean views of Ala Mhigans as savages.

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While the brutality the Domans and Ala Mhigans suffered under is often attributed to Zenos alone, I don't think that's entirely fair. For starters the Empire had 25 and 20 years, respectively, to improve the lives of the citizens of those territories; other than standard Imperial mandates (outlawing even the most basic religious practices, f'ex) and installing barriers on the Daiyu Moon Gates, absolutely nothing about life in the provinces we liberate during 4.0 seemed to have changed. It almost certainly got worse under Zenos, but... nothing suggests Gaius or the former viceroy of Doma did anything to help the citizens of their provinces. Their treatment was not "standard," such as it is (Baut notes that some provinces have things much better, others have it even worse), but... yeah.

Gaius, for his part, respected primarily strength. This is likely why things like leaving Ala Ghiri to fend for itself happened; if they weren't strong enough to survive on their own, they didn't deserve to live in his eyes.

Maybe. If you were trying to integrate a hostile culture I could see one way of doing it would be to crush it down to the point where is was completely broken and offering no resistance, used to suffering and oppression, and then start offering it succor. Even if you were the original source of the oppression, the offer of relief and hope would make the oppressed grateful to you. In a way this is one of the reasons why the people of Ala Ghiri reacted so loyally to Baut. In truth, all he did was get his soldiers to stop treating the citizens badly and look after the area. He himself was surprised by the amount of loyalty they felt.

I can see the extremely pragmatic Giaus taking this path. That doesn't make it ok but it means there is a reason for it. However it isn't really clear if that was his intention or if he just let it happen. Unfortunately we really don't have enough info to make a call on this.

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Originally Posted by Belhi

That said, it was still under his command that much of the original brutal treatment of the Ala Mhigans took place. I would be curious if this was part of a typical 'breaking in' of a conquered culture or if it was just side effect of Garlean views of Ala Mhigans as savages.

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Imho, a little of Column A and a little of Column B.

Ala Mhigo was on the marches of the Empire, the last bastion before a corrupted land infested with primals, and its people never fully embraced the Empire or ceased resistance. Baelsar saw a polarized simplification of reality. It's as easy as black and white: the world is at stake; you are either supporting the righteous order of Garlemald or you're as good as actively warring against it. The enemies of order are fit for naught but slaughter.

That explains how he treated the Resistance and beast tribes, and I expect he would probably have spent another 5 years punching the city-states and yelling, "STOP RESISTING. EVERYTHING WILL BE FINE IF YOU STOP RESISTING." The Mission is all that matters, there's no room for people not doing their part, or worse, acting against it. You can lead a chocobo to water, but you can't make him drink. (And if he doesn't drink it's off to the rotisserie.)

I imagine that the best people could hope for if they didn't embrace imperial order was that somehow their settlement was seen as insignificant and somehow had the means to get by despite everything around them being under Garlean control (like, for example, the Qalyana clan of Ananta). If you wanted to be left alone, you had to be unworthy of attention. Most who try will live with very little to show for it.

Therefore, if people under his dominion were suffering, it was likely (in his mind) their own fault. I think, from his point of view, many Ala Mhigans would be clinging to the trappings of a civilization that had been too weak to stand - that had turned on and devoured itself at his whim. They held tight to worthless traditions, false gods, and unearned pride. If you're not willing to pull yourself up by your own bootstraps, glorify the ivory standard, earn your citizenship, and do your part to bring honor and glory to your homeland and salvation to the world, what good were you for except keeping the Imperial machine running?

It's like Lieutenant Rasczak's on the authoritarian side of history, lol.

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Originally Posted by Cilia

For starters the Empire had 25 and 20 years, respectively, to improve the lives of the citizens of those territories; other than standard Imperial mandates (outlawing even the most basic religious practices, f'ex) and installing barriers on the Daiyu Moon Gates, absolutely nothing about life in the provinces we liberate during 4.0 seemed to have changed. It almost certainly got worse under Zenos, but... nothing suggests Gaius or the former viceroy of Doma did anything to help the citizens of their provinces.

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If I read it right, Garlemald just didn't think Doma was worth much. It was on the fringes of the Empire; there are cities that they didn't even bother to conquer juuust beyond Doma, so Doma itself wasn't exactly a march or a fort or a prize. Judging by the scenes we saw, they took over the top tiers of government, instituted the basic civil order they expected, and then stuck Kaien back on top as a paper tiger for 25 years and left them to their fate. Looks like imperial academy students and cannon fodder conscripts were all they bothered with once they the territory under control. Until the rebellion, it wasn't a threat nor was it under threat. It just ... was.

Thank you for your input everyone.
Just to clarify though a resource/ or thread for changes of dialogue based on (points in time, race, class, quests completed) (Like I've seen some of estinien and alisae ones but nothing really else aside from the crafter ones having completed other crafter lines mentioning they exist) specifically doesn't exist and I just need to review dialogue in Garland tools? Or is there a dedicated resource to these changes of dialogue?

I have never heard of or seen a resource that lists the changes. The best we have is garland tools or xivdb for conversations.

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

If I read it right, Garlemald just didn't think Doma was worth much. It was on the fringes of the Empire; there are cities that they didn't even bother to conquer juuust beyond Doma, so Doma itself wasn't exactly a march or a fort or a prize. Judging by the scenes we saw, they took over the top tiers of government, instituted the basic civil order they expected, and then stuck Kaien back on top as a paper tiger for 25 years and left them to their fate. Looks like imperial academy students and cannon fodder conscripts were all they bothered with once they the territory under control. Until the rebellion, it wasn't a threat nor was it under threat. It just ... was.

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If Doma wasn't worth much, why was it conquered at all? I mean, the Xaela tribes of the Azim Steppe are, for want of a better term, less civilized; yet they are left alone, while Doma was crushed and put under the Imperial yoke. A less advanced civilization would probably be more likely to summon - this is, after all, why the Empire has a genocidal policy toward beast tribes. As noted when you get there, the exact reason the Empire hasn't conquered the Steppe is unknown - however there is clearly reason beyond stopping primals that goes into the decision to conquer.

Going by the Roman influence, it's probably just because whatever legatus conquered Doma thought it would heighten his or her political power. Either way, the point I'm getting at is that the treatment the Domans and Ala Mhigans got was not just to break them into Imperial service; it had been going on for 25 / 20 years. Got worse under Zenos, but we have nothing proving it was much (if any) better before him.

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Originally Posted by TogekissBough

Thank you for your input everyone.
Just to clarify though a resource/ or thread for changes of dialogue based on (points in time, race, class, quests completed) (Like I've seen some of estinien and alisae ones but nothing really else aside from the crafter ones having completed other crafter lines mentioning they exist) specifically doesn't exist and I just need to review dialogue in Garland tools? Or is there a dedicated resource to these changes of dialogue?

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You do have to comb through the dialogue for specific changes; fortunately, they are few and far between, and none really impact much (Yugiri mentioning your mad ninja skills by not wearing ninja garb when gathering information in Namai, f'ex. Yes, a ninja compliments you for not wearing an outfit that screams "I'm a ninja!").

... but no, there is no repository dedicated specifically to the differences in dialogue depending on various factors (job, race, Legacy player, etc).

Doma's worth was from its location. Control of Doma for the Garleans meant control of the Ruby Sea, however much the Confederacy (and probably Hingashi) would have liked to claim otherwise. One of the sidequest lines involves you setting up a trade deal with the East Aldenard Trading Company and the Confederacy, and the EATC representative asks for various items found only in the Ruby Sea which she couldn't get because the Garleans had placed embargoes on those items. Conversely, the Azim Steppe offered little gain in return for the effort necessary to subjugate the territory. The native peoples aren't centralised, have a warlike culture and as a whole aren't even really inclined to organised religion anyway. And, well, it's a steppe. Land's not worth much, a fire that gets out of control would sweep across the region, and farming's not really possible (presumably).

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Originally Posted by Cilia

If Doma wasn't worth much, why was it conquered at all?

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I suspect there's a lot we don't know about the war for the eastern theatre, and that the Empire just kept going until all known primal threats collapsed. Recall, for example, that Yugiri had heard tale of such beings but hadn't personally seen one; she was a one-year-old during the war and didn't leave her bubble (literally) until she saw the horrors wrought by the Empire. One potential indication: something made Susano a reality, and there are no indications that it was recent given that the Kojin believed he was already in the relics and seemed to have no idea what in the seventh hell was even happening. (I mean, all indications are that Kami are as unconfirmed as the Twelve and Susano is just a primal. I suspect it's the magatama's work at present.)

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Originally Posted by Wyssahtyn

Doma's worth was from its location.

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This is also a gppd point; control of Doma closes a few defensive vulnerabilities.

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

Therefore, if people under his dominion were suffering, it was likely (in his mind) their own fault. I think, from his point of view, many Ala Mhigans would be clinging to the trappings of a civilization that had been too weak to stand - that had turned on and devoured itself at his whim. They held tight to worthless traditions, false gods, and unearned pride. If you're not willing to pull yourself up by your own bootstraps, glorify the ivory standard, earn your citizenship, and do your part to bring honor and glory to your homeland and salvation to the world, what good were you for except keeping the Imperial machine running?

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What I would like to note here is that it kinda made sense with ala ghanna since there only industry was stone, which as stated garleans had no interest in, from gaius's perspective it makes sense that he would believe they should find a new way to survive, adapt to the changes and prove their worth.

It mirrors a situation seen within the real world, particularly here in the United Kingdom. Mining served as a very profitable - if dangerous - route for common folk to earn coin and stability. Over time, though, it became less profitable and many mines ended up being shut down all over the country. A controversial decision but one that happened quite a few years ago as of the present day. Despite the time that has passed, though, there's still people who are very sour about being unable to mine to earn a living. In certain areas which are fairly out of the way to begin with it served as the only real stable job around.

That is an interesting real life comparison actually! It is interesting to think about how the people lost their jobs due to modernization efforts. That being said, it's not necessarily a perfect one. The quarries were doing just fine and were very profitable back when they had trading efforts with the city states, who still used plenty of stone. And it's also directly mentioned in many places just how much havoc the Garleans wreaked on the Ala Mighan economy through their mass conscription and forced labor. Which always makes me wonder where all of those conscripted soldiers went off to...and whether or not they might come back.

I also like the examinations of Gaius in this thread as well. He's kind of a fun character in that he's a true believer in the Garlean ethos, to the point of blind faith in it.

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Originally Posted by CaesarCV

I also like the examinations of Gaius in this thread as well. He's kind of a fun character in that he's a true believer in the Garlean ethos, to the point of blind faith in it.

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We've pretty much seen two types of garlean, the kind that abuse their power for their own ends (Nael and Zenos) and the kind that try to use it to unify the world under imperial ideals for better or worse (Gaius and Regula). It'll be interesting to see which we get more of, my bet is on the former. I'd like to see more from those who live on the lower ranks of society, garlean and those who were annexed. I'd be interesting to see what lower ranked purebloods think though, just your common Bas and above.

I'd definitely like to see the leaders of 10th and 4th legion and how they would be represented (whether 10 would be Jehct figure or yu yevon).
Completely off topic, how was Zenos representative of FFXII. I remember Vayne being manipulated by those 'god things' (only remember certain things from 12), but Zenos wasn't manipulated unless the allusion was meant to be how Vayne absorb the god thing like zenos did with shinryu??? Is that the only allusion to 12.

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Originally Posted by TogekissBough

I'd definitely like to see the leaders of 10th and 4th legion and how they would be represented..
Completely off topic, how was Zenos representative of FFXII. I remember Vayne being manipulated by those 'god things' (only remember certain things from 12), but Zenos wasn't manipulated unless the allusion was meant to be how Vayne absorb the god thing like zenos did with shinryu??? Is that the only allusion to 12.

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I'm looking forward to seeing the next legions too! It's fun how they're based off of a different Final Fantasy game each time. Although, Zenos does have a larger relation to Zayne than simply having to do with the gods. Both of them are sociopathic characters that cannot interact with humanity in a normal way. They are both noted as, in their own weird way, exceedingly lonely and looking for someone to understand them. And both do sort of fuse with god beings at the end of their respective games, albeit in very different ways.

To be honest I get the feeling that the Garlean occupiers intentionally put the foot down. Garlemald would have had a lot of experience subjugating and assimilating populations. Even taking Gaius's world view into consideration, the Garlean's treatment of the locals is rather counter intuitive when it comes to driving people to pull themselves up by their bootstraps. They take most of the abled bodied people for their armies leaving the remaining people with a lack of effective labour to look to new options, they demand the locals deal with 'local pests but then brutalise people for carrying weapons by accusing them of being insurgents. If Gaius's goal was for people to earn their place, he created an environment that discouraged it.

Honestly the most sense to me is the treatement of Ala Mhigo to be one of 'breaking in' the population. Crush them till all resistance has been squeezed out, and then when they are just miserable and just trying to survive to the next day, offer them succor so they feel greatful to you. It would make a lot of sense and as unethical as it is, it would probably be effective. Again I just point to Ala Ghara for an example. Just the act of stopping the soldiers abusing the locals earned loyalty and gratitude.